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Author Topic: Alignment confirmation  (Read 3238 times)

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Offline Jags10

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Alignment confirmation
« on: September 16, 2015, 09:48:01 AM »
Coaches, After using the 33 stack for the 2nd half of the season last year, we are trying to run it again at the Jr. Midget Level. I just want to confirm...get thoughts on alignment rules for a few different formations we will face this week. The team is not very good, so we have some room for imperfection.:
                                                                               O  O

           O                 O                                               QB                                                                                                           
                                                                       O O O O O O                                                                                                                 
         
Not common, but nothing new either. They ran inside and had a counter, but they seem to like to motion the slot and crack back. I assume we will shift the stacks  here, given the twins with TE? Also, just wondering how others play their dog with this. I have my own idea, but just want to see if other's ideas match mine.

Also:
                                                                                     QB
                                                                        O                            O                                          O
                                                                            O O O O O O O     

Again, I believe we simply shift the stacks towards the se side, especially since, thus far on tape I only see them motion the right wing towards the SE and he takes a handoff , or the qb  pulls and runs inside or back side .

thanks.                             

Offline jrk5150

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Re: Alignment confirmation
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2015, 09:56:53 AM »
First of all, I assume that one of the twins is on the LOS in diagram 1, since right now you've only got 6 on the line?

If there are three OL to the left of the ball, yes you shift left because you have 4 on the line to the left including the SE, and two on the right.  Unbalanced, you shift. If they motion the slot or whoever all the way across the formation, you can slide your R to that side just in case, but you're still okay.

Second formation I wouldn't do anything different at all.  Base.  R may want to move a couple of steps to the strong side to make up for the CB being out wide, and he should now keep an eye on the strong side TE and WB for pass release (we got burned on that play a few years ago), but that's a balanced formation. The key here is whether you can scout the other team enough to know if that wide guy is a decoy or a player.  If you know that, you can have your CB keep an eye on him or ignore him.

Offline Jags10

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Re: Alignment confirmation
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2015, 11:14:21 AM »
Thanks. yes, the video quality is not great, and I have to double check that they even have the twins with the TE...but another coach saw the same thing...and yes, the outside guy should be on the line. Pretty much what I figured, just wanted to make sure.
 
How do you usually play your Dog with the crack back threat? We have stuck with the basic closer than 8yds, align on him, more than 8, split the difference...Makes a difference against the crack, but either way, we are in good shape with the stack shifted over the TE.

Offline jrk5150

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Re: Alignment confirmation
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2015, 11:23:12 AM »
Once you shift, the OS to that side will be up on the LOS, so you have both the Dog and the OS, and they may not know who to crack.  In that case, I will frequently have the Dog move out and back a couple of steps, lining up more like an OLB but still come hard as a Dog. What that gives you is a look that the O sees as an OLB and a DE which are your Dog and OS respectively.  Think about their assignments vs. a "normal" defense that your opponent will see.  They'll be all f*cked up.  They'll see your OS as the DE, but he will be flying in there and very hard to legally crack, while your Dog will be coming hard as well right behind that crack block. They are going to LOOK like an OLB and DE, but not PLAY like them.

And the Dog's alignment - maybe 2/3 of the way out to the inside twins guy and back off the line a few steps, should prevent a true crack.  Just have to tell him and the OS to watch for that.  If he goes in motion, got to yell crack crack crack so they know to watch their backs. And once the motion or inside guy goes past the Dog, he should be screaming in right off his back to the ball.


Offline Jags10

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Re: Alignment confirmation
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2015, 03:11:19 PM »
Thanks. Pretty much exactly what I was thinking. :)

Offline Jags10

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Re: Alignment confirmation
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2015, 10:51:45 AM »
wanted to come back to this and ask if anyone has ever shifted with double tight and a SE?..SE is off the line. I know by the book probably says no, and I don't really like the backside look either, but I have to say, this past week we got gashed over and over on toss sweep to a SE side. In that scenario we did shift since they had no TE opposite and a full house backfield. We won 13-12, but still it was still very frustrating.

Now, it was almost entirely execution, or should I say non-execution by the players...we just need to coach them better. That said, this weekend we face an even better team who runs double tight with the SE and spread. I'm actually far less concerned with their spread than their power formation., given our track record with these physical teams and the outside runs. I'd love to get an OS ON the TE, but I know it's probably not sound here. We also will use the 60 and some 42. Other than that, I guess we have to just lineup as usual and get our players, especially the reaper  to fill. Almost all these runs were cut back inside after the Dog took on a lead blocker outside.

I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else has had issues with this very simple formation? or, have most 33 stack users experienced no issues with sweeps and stackers inside the TE, especially with a corner occupied with a SE? I fear that I already know the answer. This group is one of the toughest I've had  :(

Offline CoachJJ

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Re: Alignment confirmation
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2015, 05:36:36 PM »
Coach ... if possible I would love to see some film of what you are describing ... also some reference to how wide the split end is when they have double tight ...

You mentioned shifting when there was no TE on the backside (that doesnt sound right if you are talking about a 'double tight' formation) ...

Simple answer is that NO we NEVER shift our stacks against a balanced double tight end O-line ... the 6 gaps need to be filled and their job is to fill them ... they dont really serve a purpose on SWEEP other than pursuit so no reason to shift to get them involved ... it sounds to me like your DOG might be too wide and your CORNER and REAPER arent filling the lane fast enough ...

Assuming double tight with a split end (he goes deep or blocks the corner) they cant have more than 2 backs in the backfield ... if one is lead blocking on the DOG then the REAPER is free to come in and make the tackle ... this is why we say our REAPER might get 20 tackles against a good team because he is the guy that is always unblocked ... in order to block him they have to do 1 of 2 things ...
1. use the QB as a lead blocker or runner ...
2. leave someone else unblocked to get a man on the Reaper ...

Either way we expect the DOG to attack on an angle that forces the contact with the lead blocker to occur behind the TE area or as close to that as possible ... the tighter our attack the easier it is to defend SWEEP ... also our DOG must make the runner change his path ... he might never make the tackle but if he changes the path of the runner every time then our REAPER and CORNER and other players in pursuit have a much better shot at making the play ... either make the runner cut up inside near the TE ... or make him get deeper to get around you thus taking him farther away from the LOS so we can run him out of bounds before he gains any yards ...
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Offline Jags10

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Re: Alignment confirmation
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2015, 08:52:52 AM »
Thanks for the replies and sorry for taking so long to post an update. We did shift against a TE with a split...and no TE on the other side. That's the game we won 13-12. We did not shift against the double tight with a SE. We lost that game 12-0 to one of the top teams in the area.

I don't have any good film to show, but it was and remains just poor tackling and execution. In this game we lost, we did get pressure and gave, what is a very good offensive line some issues, but we missed at least 3 tackles behind the line on sweeps. Ironically, they did hurt us a few times in their spread. I used some press, and you guys were right, they burned us. However, I still feel it would have been useful, given more practice with press. Also, we did not get the pressure I anticipated...simply not aggressive enough up front.

We are now practicing what I call the "triangle"... dog, corner, reaper, on sweeps. We have done this every practice since that game. I realize it comes down to this, especially at the JR Midget level, where they are more capable. When you are pressuring the A-C gaps this much, you really need to have great technique, aggressiveness, and great tackling on the edge. Sounds like a cliche, but really true.

Nevertheless, we are 6-2, and that first loss we were not in this defense. First round of the playoffs are coming up, and we have a team that does some weirs things. I will start a new thread, once again, asking for input. Thanks guys.