Author Topic: Auto calls to open side  (Read 1194 times)

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Offline Jtatham

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Auto calls to open side
« on: July 14, 2017, 10:13:53 AM »
I asked about auto gapping to the open side awhile back. Lots of you guys said it's only if there's no end to that side (just guard and tackle - who is technically now the end). But that's not what the manual says - it says gap is an auto if there is no TE to that side. I can see that - if there's no TE you only have 3 gaps to that side instead of 4. Your G, T, and DE can handle those three gaps. So your Guard is only going to slant into the A gap, so why not go ahead and line him up in the gap? Please let me know what I'm missing.

My next question related to that is what to do with the OLB on an open side. If I'm reading the manual correctly, along with the gap call they line up to the outside on the LOS. I'm not sure I understand bringing the OLB and DE off the LOS to the same area of what is most likely the weak side. I understand it's extra immediate pressure which is what the defense is all about, but an extra guy trying to (most likely) chase the play from behind seems like a waste to me. This reminds me of what most teams would do when we used to use the single wing - they would line up extra guys off the weak side edge and try to chase the play down from behind. Watching the futility of it was one of the most pleasurable coaching experiences. :)

So I'm thinking about making "red" an auto call for a OLB when there's no TE on his side. At that point he doesn't have a gap responsibility so go ahead and put him in read mode to have an extra alley player. Based on the kids I think I will have I'm thinking about swapping the OLBs too and playing more of a traditional Sam and Will - Sam's a big strong kid with not much speed and Will 's a faster kid.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 10:16:23 AM by Jtatham »

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Auto calls to open side
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2017, 02:08:38 PM »
I asked about auto gapping to the open side awhile back. Lots of you guys said it's only if there's no end to that side (just guard and tackle - who is technically now the end). But that's not what the manual says - it says gap is an auto if there is no TE to that side. I can see that - if there's no TE you only have 3 gaps to that side instead of 4. Your G, T, and DE can handle those three gaps. So your Guard is only going to slant into the A gap, so why not go ahead and line him up in the gap? Please let me know what I'm missing. You can indeed if your not going to use In-Out-or Split calls.  However, the heads up alignment does present an immediate threat to the OL.  Used in combination with the aforementioned calls it can be quite frustrating to the OL not to have a clue which way I'm going all day. 

My next question related to that is what to do with the OLB on an open side. If I'm reading the manual correctly, along with the gap call they line up to the outside on the LOS. I'm not sure I understand bringing the OLB and DE off the LOS to the same area of what is most likely the weak side. I understand it's extra immediate pressure which is what the defense is all about, but an extra guy trying to (most likely) chase the play from behind seems like a waste to me. This reminds me of what most teams would do when we used to use the single wing - they would line up extra guys off the weak side edge and try to chase the play down from behind. Watching the futility of it was one of the most pleasurable coaching experiences. :)  Since the WS DE has BCR responsibility, you do whatever with the WS OSLB.  Note I do believe that there is a proper rotation for the defense in pursuit mode

So I'm thinking about making "red" an auto call for a OLB when there's no TE on his side. At that point he doesn't have a gap responsibility so go ahead and put him in read mode to have an extra alley player. I rarely played in Base.  I was either Red or Spread just because of the high tendency for Sweep and Off Tackle  Based on the kids I think I will have I'm thinking about swapping the OLBs too and playing more of a traditional Sam and Will - Always build your defense using the Triangles. Sam's a big strong kid with not much speed and Will 's a faster kid. Would Sam be better suited to DT? Honestly, for me, both my OSLBs need to be able to Cover the flats so Decent speed is necessary.  Maybe Sam is your Mike, does he have enough speed for that?
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Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: Auto calls to open side
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2017, 02:22:02 PM »
I am not sure that I am following everything, but let me give it a shot.

If I have an unbalanced formation, I am not shifting my DL into the gaps as rule.  I might put the DL in the gaps periodically to (as DOF said) give the OL something to think about. 

If there is no TE on one side AND no wings on that same side, then that means that I have a bunch of guys on the other side.  As a result, I will have my weak side CB creep closer to the line and closer to the EMLOS to act as support for the DE in a BCR scenario.  I will then shift out my strong side OLB to be outside the DE and my weakside OLB will shift towards the middle.  My Mike will take a couple of steps towards that strong side as well. This is more of an overload adjustment than anything and both of my OLB's will be reading instead of blitzing their gaps. 

Is that what you were asking about?

Offline davecisar

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Re: Auto calls to open side
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2017, 03:21:24 PM »


If there is no TE on one side AND no wings on that same side, then that means that I have a bunch of guys on the other side.  As a result, I will have my weak side CB creep closer to the line and closer to the EMLOS to act as support for the DE in a BCR scenario.  I will then shift out my strong side OLB to be outside the DE and my weakside OLB will shift towards the middle.  My Mike will take a couple of steps towards that strong side as well. This is more of an overload adjustment than anything and both of my OLB's will be reading instead of blitzing their gaps. 

Is that what you were asking about?

In most unbalanced formations you DO have a TE
Just because there are only 2 players on the LOS to one side- doesnt mean that there isnt a TE there
For us we only have 2 on the LOS to the weak side- one is a TE and yes we can and do throw to him
EMLOS is always eligible even if he is the Center
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: Auto calls to open side
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2017, 03:27:06 PM »
In most unbalanced formations you DO have a TE
Just because there are only 2 players on the LOS to one side- doesnt mean that there isnt a TE there
For us we only have 2 on the LOS to the weak side- one is a TE and yes we can and do throw to him
EMLOS is always eligible even if he is the Center

I understand that, which is why the CB is still there and the OLB is not all the way across the field.  Our players don't sell out and they still have their responsibilities.  Sort of hard to describe in a post online.  It is not like the defense can tell whether that guy on the end was playing tackle, TE or G on the last play. We have to account for him. 

Do you run the 6-3?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 03:30:27 PM by patriotsfatboy1 »

Offline Jtatham

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Re: Auto calls to open side
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2017, 09:37:50 AM »


Thanks for the info! My Sam candidate was originally tagged for DT, and I figured I would at least need him at DT in odd front looks since we will only have 2-3 big kids (this kid being one of them). He does not have the speed to play the Mike position. He has the nose for the football to play it though. I've also considered him for DE. He played DE for me when we ran WT6, he was great at reading the play and stringing out sweeps.

Offline Jtatham

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Re: Auto calls to open side
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2017, 09:44:02 AM »
I am not sure that I am following everything, but let me give it a shot.

If I have an unbalanced formation, I am not shifting my DL into the gaps as rule.  I might put the DL in the gaps periodically to (as DOF said) give the OL something to think about. 

If there is no TE on one side AND no wings on that same side, then that means that I have a bunch of guys on the other side.  As a result, I will have my weak side CB creep closer to the line and closer to the EMLOS to act as support for the DE in a BCR scenario.  I will then shift out my strong side OLB to be outside the DE and my weakside OLB will shift towards the middle.  My Mike will take a couple of steps towards that strong side as well. This is more of an overload adjustment than anything and both of my OLB's will be reading instead of blitzing their gaps. 

Is that what you were asking about?

Sorry for the confusion. No actually I was thinking about the weak side of a pro formation, for example. So a guard, tackle, and split end. You only have 5 people on that side and only 3 gaps to attack. So in this case it doesn't make sense to me to ever slant the guard out into the B gap when you only have 3 gaps instead of 4. At the same time, there's no gap for the OLB to be responsible for, why not just go ahead and put him in red instead of lining him up on the weak side LOS.

Offline dollar

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Re: Auto calls to open side
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2017, 10:35:40 AM »
I would play him at DE.
Coach Gregory says the Mike and the DE's make this D great.
Those three guys are the first ones I identify.
Then Sam. Then Will.
DT are the last two I fill-I believe the NG is more disruptive than those two guys.
Have you ever considered flipping your DE, Sam and field corner?

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Auto calls to open side
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2017, 10:34:46 PM »
Never Underestimate the value of a Monster DT in Jacks Defense.  Especially to the Field Side!   Again speaking from personal experience SPEED at DE is an offense Killer.   
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Offline Jtatham

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Re: Auto calls to open side
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2017, 10:35:24 PM »
In most unbalanced formations you DO have a TE
Just because there are only 2 players on the LOS to one side- doesnt mean that there isnt a TE there
For us we only have 2 on the LOS to the weak side- one is a TE and yes we can and do throw to him
EMLOS is always eligible even if he is the Center

Funny you mention that Coach, the last year we ran your offense we also added the "stupid sweep" where the center was the EMLOS and eligible! We found practicing it helped our chaser drill with the single wing - we would practice the chaser drill with the end and guard, then take the guard away, then make the center the EMLOS.

Btw, for us the 16 Pass was more effective than the 18 Sweep Pass. Wingback always seemed to get butterfingers in games. :)

Offline Jtatham

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Re: Auto calls to open side
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 10:38:36 PM »
I would play him at DE.
Coach Gregory says the Mike and the DE's make this D great.
Those three guys are the first ones I identify.
Then Sam. Then Will.
DT are the last two I fill-I believe the NG is more disruptive than those two guys.
Have you ever considered flipping your DE, Sam and field corner?

We ran the 6-3 last year and we flipped our corners and ends, but not our OLBs. This year I'm considering flipping corners, ends, and OLBs (if I end up playing this kid at OLB).

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Auto calls to open side
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2017, 11:36:19 PM »
We ran the 6-3 last year and we flipped our corners and ends, but not our OLBs. This year I'm considering flipping corners, ends, and OLBs (if I end up playing this kid at OLB).

Why Flip?  Consider Field and Boundary and leave them there.  Jack stated that his research indicates that most teams will run to their side of the field regardless.  I have seen evidence of same.  A should be slightly better than B and B should be better than C.  Build your Triangles wisely and Field and Boundary become Void!  Its about building the supporting cast so that either side is as good as the other.  Besides I dont want kids running all over the place to indicate to the offense!  The less they move around the better! It takes me only a few plays to realize if the offense is obvious when they flip the line! I'll use In-Out-and Split all day if they do that!  Action/Reaction.

In its Base the 6-3 can make the Center Miserable causing the OC to use 3 to block 2!  Add the aforementioned In-Out-Split on occasion he has over compensated!   Just sayin
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