Author Topic: First experience with the 6-3  (Read 3236 times)

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Offline coachstu

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First experience with the 6-3
« on: November 19, 2015, 04:19:09 PM »
For years I've run the 5-4 as my base defense.  I've dabbled with the 6-3 as a goal line set in the past.  This year, I started as a base 5-3.  Once I got a look at what the other teams in the league were running on offense, I quickly moved to the 6-3.  Understand, I do not have any of Jack's materials, but between this board and Jack's free stuff online, I had a pretty good understanding of the defense works and the coaching points.  So after the first game, we switched wholesale to the 6-3.  We gave up 6 points all year.  An average of .8 points a game!  We were not scored upon until the last play, of the last quarter, of the last game.  That's right, we gave up a score as time expired in the last game of the season.  And that was all my "scrubs" on the field.

So yeah, a pretty good first year running this defense.

Offline mahonz

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Re: First experience with the 6-3
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2015, 04:58:05 PM »
I'd say so !
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Offline Michael ODonnell

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Re: First experience with the 6-3
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2015, 08:21:49 AM »
Stu,

A number of years ago we ran a Pro 4-3 (actually the Michigan State Tilt 4-3) at the varsity level. After your past season with your version of Jack's 6-3, how do you think it would work at older levels?
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Offline Coach Kyle

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Re: First experience with the 6-3
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2015, 08:57:12 AM »
For years I've run the 5-4 as my base defense.  I've dabbled with the 6-3 as a goal line set in the past.  This year, I started as a base 5-3.  Once I got a look at what the other teams in the league were running on offense, I quickly moved to the 6-3.  Understand, I do not have any of Jack's materials, but between this board and Jack's free stuff online, I had a pretty good understanding of the defense works and the coaching points.  So after the first game, we switched wholesale to the 6-3.  We gave up 6 points all year.  An average of .8 points a game!  We were not scored upon until the last play, of the last quarter, of the last game.  That's right, we gave up a score as time expired in the last game of the season.  And that was all my "scrubs" on the field.

So yeah, a pretty good first year running this defense.
What?  ??? How is that even fun?

Offline coachstu

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Re: First experience with the 6-3
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2015, 05:21:42 PM »
Stu,

A number of years ago we ran a Pro 4-3 (actually the Michigan State Tilt 4-3) at the varsity level. After your past season with your version of Jack's 6-3, how do you think it would work at older levels?
I think you could borrow some of the concepts.  But honestly, I think it would turn into a man on man 6-5 pretty quick at upper levels.  It would depend on what you're facing.  I would trust it again any double tight set.  And understand, I never cheat gaps, tendencies or not.  Meaning I always assign players to gaps.  One could cheat and not do that for extra pass or second level support.  I think I would probably morph my 6-3 into a 4-2 (or 4-5), with the ability to convert back based on the formation I was facing.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 05:24:31 PM by coachstu »

Offline coachstu

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Re: First experience with the 6-3
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2015, 05:23:36 PM »
What?  ??? How is that even fun?
Yeah.  I'm not sure it was.  At one point it became all about the season shutout.  I can't begin to explain how crazy it got.  Next year, I'm letting our opponent score on the opening kickoff.

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: First experience with the 6-3
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2015, 10:42:00 PM »
In all honesty the 6-3 would be difficult to run as a Base Defense at Varsity High School Level. 

However, It could be very effective as a blitz package in certain Down and Distance situations.  The Tampa 2 Scheme gives you some options. 

Red Spread especially so.   If you have Very Fast DB's it could present some problems for Spread/Gun Teams. 

One doesnt see too many Corner Blitzes anymore.  You can walk the DB into the 6-3 DE position and Blitz!  IMHO very few HS QB's can make that adjustment as the ball is being snapped! 
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline Michael ODonnell

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Re: First experience with the 6-3
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2015, 10:43:14 PM »
For the two years prior to making a move to the Michigan State Tilt 4-3, we employed a 6-3 look as a part of a 9-man front package (our base look with multiple variations was a 54 but we also used the 63, the 72, and the 81) because of the skills of our team as well as the power running attacks we were seeing at the time (this was about 25 years ago). We were physically smaller but had some quickness so our plan was to get more players into the box. We regularly faced running backs that were larger than our defensive linemen.

After two years, our talent necessitated our change to the Pro 43 (statistically we really liked what the 63 did for us from our 9-man front look) but, against primarily run based teams, we often looked like we were in a 6-3 front out of our 43 as we brought out safeties or corners up. We were not anything like Jack's 63 so that is why I asked my original question earlier.

How many front variations do you typically use during a game? Thanks.
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Offline coachstu

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Re: First experience with the 6-3
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2015, 02:21:44 PM »
For the two years prior to making a move to the Michigan State Tilt 4-3, we employed a 6-3 look as a part of a 9-man front package (our base look with multiple variations was a 54 but we also used the 63, the 72, and the 81) because of the skills of our team as well as the power running attacks we were seeing at the time (this was about 25 years ago). We were physically smaller but had some quickness so our plan was to get more players into the box. We regularly faced running backs that were larger than our defensive linemen.

After two years, our talent necessitated our change to the Pro 43 (statistically we really liked what the 63 did for us from our 9-man front look) but, against primarily run based teams, we often looked like we were in a 6-3 front out of our 43 as we brought out safeties or corners up. We were not anything like Jack's 63 so that is why I asked my original question earlier.

How many front variations do you typically use during a game? Thanks.
Understand, I coach middle school, and whether or not I use a different front often depends of whether or not I feel like showing a different front.  Against a quality opponent, we might use 5 different fronts.  4 of those are just a combination of the 4 down linemen.  The other is when we switch to a 5-4. 

Offline Shaggyd99

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Re: First experience with the 6-3
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2015, 02:24:31 PM »
Stu,

A number of years ago we ran a Pro 4-3 (actually the Michigan State Tilt 4-3) at the varsity level. After your past season with your version of Jack's 6-3, how do you think it would work at older levels?

Coach,
Iíve run Jackís defense at the 12 year old level for two seasons (I know, but donít give up on my post yet).  Iím certainly no expert on the defense but, IMHO, Iím sure it could be run at the high school level as is and excel (with some obvious game planning adjustments). 

I say this as I watch our local freshman team, coached by a friend of mine, running what I think is a 5-3?  He himself said he doesnít really know other than it has three defensive lineman.  His defensive strategy is (no kidding) point to a kid and cover him.  To be honest, it kind of works.  I see that and think what if he ran Jacks defense!?  So thatís where I base my opinion.

But again, Iím a youth coach so Iíll leave it up to the experts.

The fronts I useÖ
The base 6-3 but certain calls turn it into a 50 front easily.  I have a short yardage defense that is a 8-1.

Offline coachstu

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Re: First experience with the 6-3
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2015, 03:35:23 PM »
I think the 6-3 would not make a good base defense at most high schools, as the spread has become so prevalent.  I'm not sure what could be borrowed from it either.  Like I said above. I think a 4-2 or 4-3 would be as close as you could get.  I'd opt for a 4-2 giving at least one side of contain to an outside backer.  Kind of like a 4-2 monster, with that 3rd OLB being your monster.

As much spread as you see in HS, might as well start with a more spread oriented defense, in terms of getting the right kind of personnel in coverage positions.   

Offline Michael ODonnell

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Re: First experience with the 6-3
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2015, 10:29:21 AM »
As with many of you, much of what we do is predicated on our talent/skill sets while emphasing potential match ups that favor us and, at the same time, limiting those match ups that could negatively impact us. I have been looking at a 4-1-6 set which would allow us to get more speed on the field. Unfortunately, in our situation, more speed results in a reduction in physical size. It appears to me that Jack's 63, the Killer Bee, the DC 43, and JJ's 33 have the needed flexibility to morph into effective defenses that can limit the run and the pass IF you have the appropriate personnel.
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Offline coachstu

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Re: First experience with the 6-3
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2015, 05:02:40 PM »
As with many of you, much of what we do is predicated on our talent/skill sets while emphasing potential match ups that favor us and, at the same time, limiting those match ups that could negatively impact us. I have been looking at a 4-1-6 set which would allow us to get more speed on the field. Unfortunately, in our situation, more speed results in a reduction in physical size. It appears to me that Jack's 63, the Killer Bee, the DC 43, and JJ's 33 have the needed flexibility to morph into effective defenses that can limit the run and the pass IF you have the appropriate personnel.
Yes, but the question is, do you morph?  Or do you simply start with another defense?  IMO, morphing from a 60 front to a 40 front is going to have the wrong skill sets on the field.  As opposed to just starting out in a 40 front and selecting your players that way.  I wouldn't call it morphing.  A different defense is a different defense.  But you can borrow things from 6-3 and apply them. 

I'm of the mind at this point that I feel like that if I needed to, I could install the 6-3 in a week's time, in preparation for an opponent that I needed this defense.  Heck, with the group I had this year, we went from the 5-3 to the 6-3 in one day and never looked back.  All the principles pretty much translated, with the addition of slightly different line techniques and end play.