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Author Topic: vs Single Wing  (Read 4922 times)

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Offline TigerMOJO

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vs Single Wing
« on: September 06, 2016, 10:12:10 AM »
When vs a Single Wing team what adjustments do you make?

Shift to overload of course. MY thought is Stack on overload side and Red on backside. Some Bull calls to strong side sometimes. Never went against one but will this year.

Any Help is appreciated
Pain is Temporary...Pride is Forever!

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Offline Wing-n-It

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2016, 04:38:24 PM »
When vs a Single Wing team what adjustments do you make?

Shift to overload of course. MY thought is Stack on overload side and Red on backside. Some Bull calls to strong side sometimes. Never went against one but will this year.

Any Help is appreciated
I remember talking to jack about a SW team and I kept hearing him say over and over "make sure the playside (long side) DE squeezes down hard and meet the BB behind the tackle.
It was some time ago but I put my fastest DE on the longside. I tried to make the back sweep as that was not their bread and butter but stopping the sweep was ours.
We did win I will try to find video (it was some time ago)
We didn't change much with SW or DW we just went over our assignments.
Stayed in Red
Robert

2 Things my offense will always have is a Wing and a Wedge

Offline TigerMOJO

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2017, 10:41:53 PM »
Playing this team again. They ran a nasty TE. We played outside him. It was hard to get to ST butt because of that. Should I play him head up....inside the nasty to try to meet FB that way?

Any help on this would be much appreciated!   
Pain is Temporary...Pride is Forever!

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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2017, 11:02:18 PM »
DE must be taught to work inside a Nasty Split (If that's what Nasty Means).  If he is getting reached by the TE he's too damn slow!  NEVER ALIGN TO A BLOCK!  That being said, whats your OSLB doing?  If you Play Red or Spread the TE has to make a decision who to block, its up to you to make either OSLB or DE a bad choice on his part!  So to if you chose to stay in Base the Split call will make the TE look Stupid! In that call the TE chases the DE who must still squeeze down, the OT will chase your DT and the OSLB is free to make the play, If the DT doesn't chase the OT then it is his Play to Stop. 

Never underestimate the extreme value of a good DT.  If you have a Beasty type he is Field Side 100%.

 8)

That's why I emphasize building the Triangles.   8)   
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline davecisar

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2017, 08:33:49 AM »
If someone aligns or chooses to stunt inside the Nasty Split- he is choosing to be blocked down and swept
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2017, 10:08:38 AM »
Sorry, with this defense, Im not chasing the TE out to the Slot Position simply to remain outside.  Doing so means I'm walking myself out of the play.  Speed is the #1 factor for a DE in this defense.  As I said in my earlier post. "If he's getting reached by the TE, he's too damned slow!"   

Its how you align your DE and OSLB that make the TE Choice wrong regardless of who he chooses.
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline Huskerprice

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2017, 10:32:31 AM »
Learn to scrape to the power side, sit a guy on the weakside TE make sure he doesn't run up field and get blasted by the BB, have your weak side CB stay home. We had a team stunt from the weakside DT spot and wreaked havoc running through where our puller was coming from until I figured it out and made a no pull call.

Offline coachgregory

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2017, 10:44:24 AM »
Your DE should try and stay outside but if the nasty TE is expanding further and further push him out slipping inside is fine as long as the DE and beat the TE off the line.

The simple solution is a GAP call.  It essentially puts the OLB inside and the DE outside of the nasty split.  Now you have a DE attacking near hip of deep/back and the OLB attacking  near hip of QB or BB in this case.  It nullifies the nasty split and you have the  CB behind them for support.

Jack
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Offline davecisar

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2017, 12:15:03 PM »
Your DE should try and stay outside but if the nasty TE is expanding further and further push him out slipping inside is fine as long as the DE and beat the TE off the line.

The simple solution is a GAP call.  It essentially puts the OLB inside and the DE outside of the nasty split.  Now you have a DE attacking near hip of deep/back and the OLB attacking  near hip of QB or BB in this case.  It nullifies the nasty split and you have the  CB behind them for support.

Jack

Chalk war stuff

Then you just run 14 Blast the OLB has taken himself out of the play and the DE has a tough time making hay inside the Wham of the BB and the block of the 2 on him
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline mahonz

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2017, 03:13:38 PM »
When vs a Single Wing team what adjustments do you make?

Shift to overload of course. MY thought is Stack on overload side and Red on backside. Some Bull calls to strong side sometimes. Never went against one but will this year.

Any Help is appreciated


Since your kids are older you can easily make this adjustment during the week leading up. This theory has never failed vs any SW that I am aware of if you match up talent wise fairly close. I have shared both the odd and even front versions with many. 100% success.

I do believe Jack uses a Reaper....he is now your Regulator and is tasked with one job....blow chit up long side. Nasty would be irrelevant.

I did not invent this. I was on the receiving end of this back when I ran the UBSW with a VERY talented group. The opposing DC wiped the floor with my team that day and then was kind enough to take me to lunch and give me a Clinic on how to crush the UBSW. He played college football back in the 50's and they ran the SW Offense. He was VERY excited to play us because he knew exactly what would  beat us. And he was right. We ran base, half spin, and spread SW and were proficient at all of it. 8th graders.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 03:19:34 PM by mahonz »
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Offline 32wedge

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2017, 09:56:23 AM »
Since your kids are older you can easily make this adjustment during the week leading up. This theory has never failed vs any SW that I am aware of if you match up talent wise fairly close. I have shared both the odd and even front versions with many. 100% success.

I do believe Jack uses a Reaper....he is now your Regulator and is tasked with one job....blow chit up long side. Nasty would be irrelevant.

I did not invent this. I was on the receiving end of this back when I ran the UBSW with a VERY talented group. The opposing DC wiped the floor with my team that day and then was kind enough to take me to lunch and give me a Clinic on how to crush the UBSW. He played college football back in the 50's and they ran the SW Offense. He was VERY excited to play us because he knew exactly what would  beat us. And he was right. We ran base, half spin, and spread SW and were proficient at all of it. 8th graders.



M, I would be licking my chops if I saw that alignment.  You give numbers on the strong side, only 2 down linemen and a lot of space in the middle that I am sure i can either trap or wedge.  Christmas time come early.   ;D
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 09:58:16 AM by 32wedge »

Offline mahonz

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2017, 11:41:36 AM »
M, I would be licking my chops if I saw that alignment.  You give numbers on the strong side, only 2 down linemen and a lot of space in the middle that I am sure i can either trap or wedge.  Christmas time come early.   ;D


Agreed.....I thought the same thing. I remember that day well. At first you would be licking those chops but then you begin to wonder whats up. Its the less is more approach and actually out numbers post snap. That is the key.   

Bird dog it on paper and see what happens while applying the subtle nuances.... flex'd DLM, Cousins, cross keys.

I have used the less is more approach at times since then vs different Offenses. It does work well although your players do need to be experienced. Probably not a wise thing to do with the little guys.
IMHO you cant sit in your base youth D and go up against these smoke an mirror type Offenses...SW, DW, WT unless you simply out man an opponent. You have to back off some and pretty much allow things to develop while you attack downhill. Think an 11 man read and react. It also helps if you can teach your Defenders how these O's work.

You are going to give up some yards....no doubt....but the big plays go away so the scoring stays low. That is very true. You are playing those odds. Force an opponent to string 12-15 plays together for a score.

Here is another crazy one that shut down a deadly cross fire team that was scoring 50 points per game. We lost 18-13. Crazy in that it works so well. We stunted the 2nd level heavily and nearly took down Goliath. If they had a wedge play this would not have worked. They did try QB sneaks but the QB took a beating.



Collect moments, not wins.

Offline 32wedge

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2017, 01:23:22 PM »
You are going to give up some yards....no doubt....but the big plays go away so the scoring stays low. That is very true. You are playing those odds. Force an opponent to string 12-15 plays together for a score.

I was just picking at you.  Well coached, fundamentally sound teams are tough no matter what offense or defense they are in. 

The first 3 games last year, we had an 11 play opening drive, a 10 play opening drive and an 11 play in the third game.  The games we won last year were 12-6, 14-8, 22-14 1and 26-14.  You are daring me to do the thing I am most comfortable at. 

So far, we have 21 kids on our middle school team this year with about 5 of those guys tiny, slow and inexperienced (hopefully we pick up a few Thursday when school starts back).  Because of the screwed up district/conference system in Virginia, we have to play three district schools who have 4 times our enrollment and field between 50 and 90 kids on their middle school teams.  We didn't win any of those three games last year, but didn't get embarrassed or mercy ruled.  Our 4-3 record was the first winning record here at any level since 2008.  The other 5 teams in our county (3rd grade to HS Varsity) were a combined 2-29 (but that is including one of our 3/4 grade teams beating the other).  This place sucks at football, but they were desperate enough to let a youth league coach from Tennessee come in and coach their Middle School so I am happy about that.

I have 6 linemen and will base out of a similar formation to what you have drawn there and rotate those 6 guys at tackle on defense for their breathers.  I have 7 more athletic type players and will have to do frequent substitutions at the RB positions with them because all of them have to be out there on defense.  We have to piece together long drives and run the clock. 

So you see why I would be happy to see a team playing us that way.

Sorry to hijack the thread.  I have used Jack Gregory's defense in the past but just clicked here to see how coaches were going to stop my offense.  I am a big fan of  Jack's angle blocking stuff and use that now.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 01:29:44 PM by 32wedge »

Offline coachgregory

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2017, 02:01:38 PM »
Chalk war stuff

Then you just run 14 Blast the OLB has taken himself out of the play and the DE has a tough time making hay inside the Wham of the BB and the block of the 2 on him

I hate chaulk talks because the reality is you don't get time to dissect a play or reaction like you do in a game.

I have played your single wing five times that I recall.  Beat it three times and lost to it twice.

One occasion it was being horribly ran and it was simple to beat.  Poor coaching and the kids were not invested in running it.  Game was over by half.

The two other times we beat it we simply closed down the power and sweep on both sides and forced them to run inside and pass.  They didn't pass all that much and and we limited their inside runs to 2 and 3 yard gains at most so we got a W.  The two times we lost we did by less than 6 points and one was 7-6 game and the other was a 13-8 game.  We just did a feeble job of playing football as a team on both days and on defense we didn't do a good job of taking away what they wanted to run; power and sweep.

We have always been solid at stopping wedge but stopping power and sweep take discipline on both sides and on those games we lacked that on one side and the coaching staff did a solid job spotting it.

If I can force you to move to 14 blast that means we took away power and sweep so now we just start to adjust and squeeze further inside.  I still think with the OLB attacking near hip of one back and the DE attacking Near hip of deep / near back it is going to put pressure on that backfield.  Always does it is just a matter of finding the calls that work against that set and those players.



Jack
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 02:03:19 PM by coachgregory »
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Offline davecisar

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Re: vs Single Wing
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2017, 02:47:29 PM »
I hate chaulk talks because the reality is you don't get time to dissect a play or reaction like you do in a game.

I have played your single wing five times that I recall.  Beat it three times and lost to it twice.

One occasion it was being horribly ran and it was simple to beat.  Poor coaching and the kids were not invested in running it.  Game was over by half.

The two other times we beat it we simply closed down the power and sweep on both sides and forced them to run inside and pass.  They didn't pass all that much and and we limited their inside runs to 2 and 3 yard gains at most so we got a W.  The two times we lost we did by less than 6 points and one was 7-6 game and the other was a 13-8 game.  We just did a feeble job of playing football as a team on both days and on defense we didn't do a good job of taking away what they wanted to run; power and sweep.

We have always been solid at stopping wedge but stopping power and sweep take discipline on both sides and on those games we lacked that on one side and the coaching staff did a solid job spotting it.

If I can force you to move to 14 blast that means we took away power and sweep so now we just start to adjust and squeeze further inside.  I still think with the OLB attacking near hip of one back and the DE attacking Near hip of deep / near back it is going to put pressure on that backfield.  Always does it is just a matter of finding the calls that work against that set and those players.



Jack

As you know- the further you push in one area means there are openings in others

The issue is- MANY of the teams that run my stuff- score a bunch of points and never bother to get past the bare essentials
If it isnt broke don't fix it is their thought

The dealio is the answers are simple and right there for the taking- yet human nature gets in the way  ;D
14 Blast is the 8th play we teach in the sequence per the book- where Nasty Tunnel is the very first thing- adjustment we teach after they have the Sainted Six down

You can lead a horse to water as they say
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill