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Author Topic: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes  (Read 7877 times)

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Offline MHcoach

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2015, 11:59:31 AM »
Mike

I never thought of a bootleg as a RPO, but in reality it is the original RPO. IMHO the QB keeping the ball on the bootleg is deadly at the youth level. We would always teach our QB's to take it if it's there. This usually meant the first time we called the Boot it would be open & we would be out the gate. The next time they would defend the QB which made it easier to throw.

Waggle Pass or what ever version we used(Naked or Boot), always was the best pass play we ran up to around 12 y/o's. Not only did it put tremendous pressure on the defense, it was also the easiest to complete with younger QB's. We simply let them be an athlete.

Joe
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Offline mahonz

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2015, 02:43:58 PM »
Mike

I never thought of a bootleg as a RPO, but in reality it is the original RPO. IMHO the QB keeping the ball on the bootleg is deadly at the youth level. We would always teach our QB's to take it if it's there. This usually meant the first time we called the Boot it would be open & we would be out the gate. The next time they would defend the QB which made it easier to throw.

Waggle Pass or what ever version we used(Naked or Boot), always was the best pass play we ran up to around 12 y/o's. Not only did it put tremendous pressure on the defense, it was also the easiest to complete with younger QB's. We simply let them be an athlete.

Joe

Joe

My experiences were the polar opposite.

Boot wiggle roll sprint...whatever...the field is now cut in half...then by 3/4's...then out of room....plus throwing on the run favors the dominate hand....plus if the QB has to set to throw he will eventually experience the biggest blind side hit he will ever take in his life...plus you have to seal the edge vs the better opponents....plus your concepts are limited...plus you have to adjust the formations somewhat unless your QB has an Elway-esk arm....

Like I said...these Threads away peak my interest. I dont get it. Sure you can hit the drag off your wiggle design....but can you call that play 3 times in a row? Not likely. Why have a play that you cant call 3 times in a row?

The DW is a DEADLY PA Offense so why roll out for pure passing? Seems like a waste of practice time too me.

JMO...
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline MHcoach

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2015, 07:04:38 PM »
Mike

It absolutely amazes me, everything you are describing happens at older ages not younger. As the "Smurf expert" I wonder if your experience is limited to bad QB's.

Perhaps the answer is you are running Wiggle & not Waggle, since every football team in creation from HS to the Pro's has had some variation of Waggle for the last 30 years. It has been the single most dominant play I have seen at the Pop Warner & AYF Nationals every year. Whether it's the Spread's Naked, the I's Boot, or the actual Waggle; I can think of no play more youth friendly or more successful.

Throwing to the dominant hand is an issue; however if the fake is executed properly the play can be sold. As to cutting the field in half, I understand in Denver you are used to John Elway, but real world Youth often a half the field is all a "Good " youth QB can handle. Now blocking is another issue, we have always had great protection on Waggle, often being much easier to protect in youth than any type of drop back.

Teaching an athletic QB to throw on the run is one of the easier QB skills to be taught. Most youth QB's are just that athletes, not necessarily a QB. I always wanted to take advantage of that at the Younger ages. How often have we seen young teams score on a boot or keeper down on the goal line? Accounting for the QB is always difficult, especially at those younger ages.

Joe
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Offline coachnick

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2015, 09:15:10 PM »
Nick

When we would practice on air we would lay out cones. Now we do something even better. Have you seen the Gates, used to train WR's? Basically they are a PVC cage, forcing the WR's to drop their hips on their breaks. We now use them to get our routes correct.

Joe

http://www.football-coffee.com/2015/03/11/wr-drill-work-pvc-arches-and-abc-principle/


ok very interesting.....so give me an example on how we would d rill power pass and waggle?   

Offline MHcoach

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2015, 10:58:48 PM »
Nick

Simply place the arches where each receiver would be making his break. Then drill it. Same as you would with cones but the arches force the receivers to drop their hips on the break. We just started using them this Spring we love it.

joe
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Offline coachnick

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2015, 07:19:53 AM »
Nick

Wing T, Waggle Pass the TE will step exactly like he is GDB blocking. He then works to behind the ILB's & gets depth as he comes across. I teach it the way Coach Raymond taught it, the TE will settle his depth but continue to work across. meaning he wont sit.

First, it's different spacing than DW, & I can't answer for DW. Next the Drag is the route we want to hit, this is the toughest to defend if executed properly. We want him to keep coming as the QB keeps coming. If the QB pulls up he is either throwing the flat or the Post behind so in either case we want the TE to keep running. Next you have to understand we will teach our QB to let the Drag clear as he comes across. There is a spot if he keeps coming that is in between Zones.

Joe

thanks Joe,

if you have time do you mind commenting on some key coaching points for the qb on the waggle? mechanics? throwing on the roll out? jigger technique and how you drill it?  any other tips?  thanks

Offline MHcoach

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2015, 01:36:00 PM »
Nick

Some key points for us:

1)Always Carry out the boot even when giving the ball
2) Maintain proper depth on the Boot (too often QB's will not be deep enough)
3) Stay on the run fake as long as possible, the longer they do the more open the boot will be.
4) As soon as the QB snaps his head around get the ball into a throwing position.
5) See the edge first, then look for the receivers. If I can't get around the edge defender be ready to Jigger Up now.
6) Ball High & step to the target on the throw

Hope that helps.

Joe
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Offline coachnick

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2015, 01:53:58 PM »
great.....and can you describe the jigger up?  I know the qb stops and doesnt keep rolling but what specifically do you stress? thanks

Offline MHcoach

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2015, 02:15:47 PM »
Nick

We actually want him to pull up ,but keep his feet moving(hence Jigger Up). He may have to step in any of the 4 directions. Now, on Waggle that man is being blocked so he has a split second more. On Naked that man isn't being blocked so he has to be ready to get the ball out of his hand.

Joe
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Offline coachnick

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2015, 10:34:51 AM »
Nick

Wing T, Waggle Pass the TE will step exactly like he is GDB blocking. He then works to behind the ILB's & gets depth as he comes across. I teach it the way Coach Raymond taught it, the TE will settle his depth but continue to work across. meaning he wont sit.

First, it's different spacing than DW, & I can't answer for DW. Next the Drag is the route we want to hit, this is the toughest to defend if executed properly. We want him to keep coming as the QB keeps coming. If the QB pulls up he is either throwing the flat or the Post behind so in either case we want the TE to keep running. Next you have to understand we will teach our QB to let the Drag clear as he comes across. There is a spot if he keeps coming that is in between Zones.

Joe

ok now how about the corner route?  I saw on the thread in your section you have the corner route going 6 steps and break toward the pylon...same for waggle?

Offline davecisar

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2015, 11:39:51 AM »
Nick

We actually want him to pull up ,but keep his feet moving(hence Jigger Up). He may have to step in any of the 4 directions. Now, on Waggle that man is being blocked so he has a split second more. On Naked that man isn't being blocked so he has to be ready to get the ball out of his hand.

Joe

Joe

Thanks for the help in making adjustments to our Waggle pass out of SW- WB running drag, not RE. Help with the H/BB etc and "Tim Tebow" fake
We quit running it about 4 years ago. This year one of our QBs at 5-6 grade has some very unique abilities, so we are bringing it back for him. Our backside drag kid is very consistent- so great fit for us.
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline coachnick

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2015, 02:10:46 PM »
ok let us revisit this.....particularly the corner route....the release of the te on the corner?  inside? outside?--let us assume a tight 9 tech or head up 6 tech.....what are you teaching and why...

Offline Coach Correa

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2015, 04:57:20 PM »
We're releasing hard inside  for 2 and a 1/2 quick steps ( Aka shimmy  step) head and shoulder fake, plant, drive hard to the corner at 5 to 7  steps, look over shoulder for ball should be there now. We want to make it look like we're executing our gap or down  step so we really work on this and have to 2 0r 3 variations  depending on what play action it is . The stemming point can change with our footwork. We will always work getting inside release.
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Offline MHcoach

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Re: the bootpass/waggle: spacing and coaching points on the routes
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2015, 05:51:14 PM »
Nick

Understand for us it always involves at least one WR. Many years ago when we did Waggle or Boot to a TE we would rip release to the defender. This is completely opposite of what most people do. So, vs a 9 technique we outside release into the defender & rip off of him then break at 7yds to the corner. Vs a 6I we would inside release into him then rip off. Vs a 6 we would vertical release.

Joe

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