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Author Topic: 2-point Stance  (Read 2944 times)

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Offline CoachGugs

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2-point Stance
« on: March 31, 2011, 08:20:30 AM »
I know this was posted in the general forum earlier but wanted to post it here because we will be running a single wing as our base this year.

First off... I am an Old School learned (but young) O-line coach and believe that the O-line should always be in a 3 but after hearing some things in that other string I am second guessing things and I know the coaches I work with will think I'm nuts to start with as well. 

I would like to know what you all think (Clark and Dave C) about going with a 2-point.  Also if there are some videos showing everything or something else that would help me convince the other coaches would be great.
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Offline coachkev

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2011, 11:01:07 AM »
i only have limited experience using it but after last season, i'm a believer in the 2pt
until someone can tell me why not to use it, i've seen no disadvantages. 

Offline OwnTheLine

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2011, 11:37:52 AM »
The 2 biggest problems I've seen with a 2pt are playing high (natural tendency to stand up) and slow first step.

They should be low enough in the stance to touch the ground with their hand.

Really work the 1st step.  The foot has to be the first thing that moves.  Kids have a tendency to "roll" out of a two point instead of taking a quick step.  Teach "step right, light right; step left, light left" to get them to concentrate on loading their off foot to allow for a quicker step.


Offline coachkev

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2011, 02:40:07 PM »
Quote
The 2 biggest problems I've seen with a 2pt are playing high (natural tendency to stand up) and slow first step.

i've seen no difference in this rather than a 3 pt.  footwork and landmarks are exactly the same

Quote
They should be low enough in the stance to touch the ground with their hand..

agreed

Quote
Really work the 1st step.  The foot has to be the first thing that moves.  Kids have a tendency to "roll" out of a two point instead of taking a quick step.  Teach "step right, light right; step left, light left" to get them to concentrate on loading their off foot to allow for a quicker step.

whoever gets their feet in position first should win!  I just found that 2pts got us there a little quicker.  You do have to enforce the stance is correct (based on however you're teaching it) and of course don't allow kids to get lazy in it (ie: rocking back and forth, getting set, etc..)  Again, it doesn't seem to be any different to me in how you would enforce a stance, technique whether the the player was in a 2pt. or 3pt.

for us it seemed to make us a little quicker so i rolled with it.

 

Offline DumCoach

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2011, 07:08:10 PM »
I would like to know what you all think (Clark and Dave C) about going with a 2-point.  Also if there are some videos showing everything or something else that would help me convince the other coaches would be great.

I coach a two point on my Boise DC Wing T DVD for slow, heavy linemen.  I'll also encourage uncovered linemen to stand up in my DCWT.  Since DC UBSW doesn't use "On" blocks it's the same thing as your linemen being uncovered which gets them to a LBer faster.  They are all blocking down so it should pretty easy.  It would also seem to me you could do that from a "2" and it would block the defense's view of the BB.  And it would make tilting the line easier and probably less objectional to a ref.

But I'm just thinking out loud here.  If JB chimes in, I bow to his expertise.

"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."

Offline coachkev

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2011, 09:59:06 PM »
I coach a two point on my Boise DC Wing T DVD for slow, heavy linemen.  I'll also encourage uncovered linemen to stand up in my DCWT.  Since DC UBSW doesn't use "On" blocks it's the same thing as your linemen being uncovered which gets them to a LBer faster.  They are all blocking down so it should pretty easy.  It would also seem to me you could do that from a "2" and it would block the defense's view of the BB.  And it would make tilting the line easier and probably less objectional to a ref.

But I'm just thinking out loud here.  If JB chimes in, I bow to his expertise.

Clark - if you don't mind ... can you tell me in your opinion why a 2pt is not recommended for an "ON" block? 

coltscoach

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2011, 11:27:26 AM »
I coach a two point on my Boise DC Wing T DVD for slow, heavy linemen.  I'll also encourage uncovered linemen to stand up in my DCWT.  Since DC UBSW doesn't use "On" blocks it's the same thing as your linemen being uncovered which gets them to a LBer faster.  They are all blocking down so it should pretty easy.  It would also seem to me you could do that from a "2" and it would block the defense's view of the BB.  And it would make tilting the line easier and probably less objectional to a ref.

But I'm just thinking out loud here.  If JB chimes in, I bow to his expertise.

Well in our offense the offensive lineman are dang near standing up .. Of course we go backwards not forwards lol.. Different offense aint it..

Offline CoachGugs

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2011, 04:44:29 PM »
Thanks for the info guys!

My greatest issue with 2point is that the kids will get lazy and stand up more.  My kids play both ways most of the game.
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Offline DumCoach

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2011, 10:11:19 PM »
Clark - if you don't mind ... can you tell me in your opinion why a 2pt is not recommended for an "ON" block?

The reason an OL three points is to lower his center of gravity.  If you're blocking a man "Over" you (On), it's the old "Lowest man wins" theory.  I've never seen that theory disproved.  After all, if you get too low it becomes a "cut" block. 

From a three point you can do the following blocks:

1) Cut
2) Drive
3) Crab
4) Pull
5) Roll
6) Wedge

From a two point you can do the following:

1) Drive
2) Pull
3) Roll
4) Wedge

That's two fewer blocks.

 
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Offline CoachGugs

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2011, 02:50:37 PM »
I agree Clark... If I was playing NG or DT and the lineman was in a 2... I think I would be all over him and his chest would be sore from my maxpro being in there the entire game.
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Offline Coach Corey Brown

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2011, 05:51:22 PM »
I agree with Clark.  I see an advantage in down blocks or uncovered linemen using 2pt stance.  Head up OL I think have to be in a 3pt unless you have something designed to get them to POA quickly such as down blocking.

i've seen no difference in this rather than a 3 pt.  footwork and landmarks are exactly the same

agreed

whoever gets their feet in position first should win!  I just found that 2pts got us there a little quicker.  You do have to enforce the stance is correct (based on however you're teaching it) and of course don't allow kids to get lazy in it (ie: rocking back and forth, getting set, etc..)  Again, it doesn't seem to be any different to me in how you would enforce a stance, technique whether the the player was in a 2pt. or 3pt.

for us it seemed to make us a little quicker so i rolled with it.

 

Good point.  Chest over knees, outside foot back.
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Offline JB

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2011, 07:09:47 PM »
I know this was posted in the general forum earlier but wanted to post it here because we will be running a single wing as our base this year.

First off... I am an Old School learned (but young) O-line coach and believe that the O-line should always be in a 3 but after hearing some things in that other string I am second guessing things and I know the coaches I work with will think I'm nuts to start with as well. 

I would like to know what you all think (Clark and Dave C) about going with a 2-point.  Also if there are some videos showing everything or something else that would help me convince the other coaches would be great.

Coach--

If you're running the SW, I'd get them in a 3 pt stance. We want them as low as possible to get as much push/force on the opposing linemen as possible. Typically, we're blocking a down or  gapped lineman, so you get more bang for your buck. I.e., your blocking down, so push is much easier, via physics.

Minimize what you need to teach, keep it simple, and rep like crazy. Do loads of down blocking work.

Just curious, is this b/c you anticipate some fat freddies that can only get in a 2pt? Well, perhaps they end up cutting on backside of play (permanent backside cut blockers). Don't know your roster limitations. Think of alternative solutions for those out of shape guys.

Bottom line, don't let a couple of Taco Bell drive thru kings rule how you coach your linemen.



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coltscoach

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2011, 08:39:12 AM »
the only reason I see for using a two point stance is if you are going to teach the o lineman to sit on the bar stool... in other words you are teaching a passing offense... and they need to see the field. Better vision and they are going to be up anyway.

If im running a "running" offense or more tradistional SW/DW/Wing-T Power I wishbone Dead T Split back veer ... I might even go to a 4 point stance. just saying.

Offline CoachGugs

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2011, 04:32:19 PM »
Coach--

If you're running the SW, I'd get them in a 3 pt stance. We want them as low as possible to get as much push/force on the opposing linemen as possible. Typically, we're blocking a down or  gapped lineman, so you get more bang for your buck. I.e., your blocking down, so push is much easier, via physics.

Minimize what you need to teach, keep it simple, and rep like crazy. Do loads of down blocking work.

Just curious, is this b/c you anticipate some fat freddies that can only get in a 2pt? Well, perhaps they end up cutting on backside of play (permanent backside cut blockers). Don't know your roster limitations. Think of alternative solutions for those out of shape guys.

Bottom line, don't let a couple of Taco Bell drive thru kings rule how you coach your linemen.

I do not expect any of my kids to be the "Too Fat" kids.  If anything we are the small team in the league.

We are going to stay with 3-point.
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Offline Coach Corey Brown

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Re: 2-point Stance
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2011, 09:47:37 PM »
I've heard rumors of leagues outlawing 3pt b/c of head injury risk.  Anyway I feel you coach what you believe to be the best for your kids.  For a smaller team I would try a 2pt to utilize their quickness b/c they may not have the strength advantage.
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