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Author Topic: Handoff to pulling center??  (Read 5291 times)

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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Handoff to pulling center??
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2014, 11:26:20 AM »
Turned out  did have that series diagrammed on the local disc of one of these computers, so it was just a matter of putting some representative ones up on my Bestweb space:









The top one is drawn "pessimistically".  If the pulling T sees the MLB has bitten on the crossbuck fake, the T blocks the OLB.

Although a lot of people emphasize the footwork of the buck lateral series, the hand work is even more important.  Mozzini needs to devote some thought and plenty of reps for his players to be able to do those 2 ball exchanges in quick succession, and it may involve some cut & try.  How do you want the 1st exchange to occur, and how the 2nd?

In my case the fastest sequence would need to be the 2 handoffs, because unlike the classic UBSW buck lateral series (in which the WB counter handoff comes after the lateral fake), mine would have the 2nd handoff come before the possible lateral pass.  So I would have the deep back "park" the ball sideways between the horizontal forearms across the tackle's chest, and then the other tackle coming around doing a reach-take from there.  That would give the tackle time to slide his hands toward each other on opposite sides of the ball to grip it for the lateral pass.  For the initial ball exchange, to hide it well I'd want the back to have the ball on his inside upper arm and outside hand while rubbing past the tackle, almost like he'd get his arm ripped off by the contact, but only practice would tell whether that's feasible.

In Mozzini's case, the lateral pass is the play, so he needs to get the C to get the ball from the FB in such a way as to have it in his hands almost immediately or immediately for the toss to the TB.  Possibly the C would do a reach-take off the near arm of the FB and continue with his far foot & arm swing, but again I'd expect some cut-&-try to be needed.  Maybe a hands-to-hands trade.

I've seen diagrammed the drill for doing the double handoff as in the single wing wingback counter in the buck lateral series, but it's just as you'd imagine it, with one line of players with balls running past the link man, and another line of players coming at a right angle to the 1st line past him to receive the balls.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Handoff to pulling center??
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2014, 11:45:48 AM »
Meanwhile I've looked at the 2010 PDF of Clark's single wing for bobbleheads ("The DC Single Wing: Football for 6-7-8s") and I don't see what I'd consider a base play for Mozzini's buck lateral.  That is, I don't see anything where the FB is hitting where he would in this series.  Mozzini, is this based off a FB wedge?

Offline mozzini

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Re: Handoff to pulling center??
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2014, 04:35:56 PM »
Meanwhile I've looked at the 2010 PDF of Clark's single wing for bobbleheads ("The DC Single Wing: Football for 6-7-8s") and I don't see what I'd consider a base play for Mozzini's buck lateral.  That is, I don't see anything where the FB is hitting where he would in this series.  Mozzini, is this based off a FB wedge?

I'm really trying to come up with a little on my own, I'm pretty sure there's not even a FB wedge in that playbook.. but that would be a good base since the over here/over there blocking meshes really well (not much difference) with the wedge.

I was also kicking around this sort of play out of the beast, except there wouldn't be a second back back there to lateral to and the handoff off the buck would go to the inner most back. He would receive handoff and sweep, or pass. Less options without the lateral, but I think at 9u just getting the defense to over commit to a beast blast might provide enough movement for the play to work. Especially since in my league there seems to be no real system defenses.. just defensive formations
Phillipians 4:13

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Handoff to pulling center??
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2014, 11:21:24 PM »
I'm really trying to come up with a little on my own, I'm pretty sure there's not even a FB wedge in that playbook.
If there were, we'd've seen it.  There might be one in a later edition.  As is, there's a QB wedge.  But FB wedge is a common UBSW play; just a matter of getting the ballcarrier into the sweet spot in the wedge.  I don't know of Clark's having left it out by design for reason of having trouble with it.

Quote
I was also kicking around this sort of play out of the beast,
Bruce Eien has what he labels "buck lateral" as a series starting with a snap to the inside blocking back in beast.  The turn and lateral to the FB makes sense as part of a series when the defense can see the FB didn't get the snap.  If the snap is such that the defense hardly gets a look at it anyway, then lateraling the ball to the FB (who as far as the other team knows took the snap) doesn't make sense.  Usually, though, there's not a lot of deception as to the snap out of beast.  In that case the series is basically about giving you a few wing T style plays in a formation that's otherwise a blunt instrument form of single wing.

In the classic buck lateral series from UBSW, the play for which the series is named isn't really a delayed attack.  The TB winds up in the same place with the ball at the same time he'd've been there if he'd just taken the snap in the regular strong side sweep.  However, in the meantime you've threatened with a quick FB hit (trap or straight blocked) somewhere near the middle of the line, and you also have the possibility of a truly delayed attack by having the WB come around for a handoff on the counter, or the QB turning around & keeping.  You could have those delayed-hit plays from beast too.  I'm not sure how useful a delayed hit would be for 9Us, but I could see the possibility of defenders taking themselves out of the play.

Offline mozzini

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Re: Handoff to pulling center??
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2014, 06:19:05 AM »
good stuff bob.. I really like hearing opinions from someone whos been in the game a long time.. I can start to see the logic behind some of the plays.. start realizing whats wasted movement and whats not.. you got the gears turning in my head. I might just end up being a football coach someday  :)
Phillipians 4:13

Offline shortpunter

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Re: Handoff to pulling center??
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2014, 01:10:34 PM »
I ran that every pregame when the opposing coaches were watching. Sometimes twice just to make sure they got it. then nevr ran it in a game. I did run the backside guard that way a couple of times though
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Handoff to pulling center??
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2014, 09:34:37 PM »
I can start to see the logic behind some of the plays.
A lot of it starts with, "These are good plays.  What can we change a little bit to produce other plays that look very different to our opponents?"  Or in some cases on offense in kiddie ball, "What can we change to get the ball to a player at another position?"