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Author: Subject: Pop Warner and AYF Title Game Report
davecisar
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[*] posted on 12-9-2009 at 08:02 AM Reply With Quote
Pop Warner and AYF Title Game Report



Ive been in Orlando since Monday at the Pop Warner and AFL National Championships

Seeing some great youth football games
Saw an incredible game yesterday, replay of the Midget National title game last year- Miami against a New Jersey team- Game came down to the final second 1.1 second left, score 14-8, double pass open with wall of blockers, ball dropped. Score had been 8-6 a TD was scored on fade router with 12 seconds left on 4th down. Unreal game- Both teams were running it between the tackles, 1 was Power I double tight, the Other ran a lot of double tight bone.

Saw my friend from Spririt of Faith (DC) at the AYF Championships. they have 3 teams in it, alll 100% using my system- the PW beat the 2 time defending National Champions- Staten Island Hurricanes 12-0 the . JPW beat an undefeated team from Houston 38-6 and the Tiny Mites won 40-0 over a team from Texas. the Houston team was spread, I overheard their coaches saying it was going to be a track meet, it was, but not the way you would think.

PSL looked like the team to beat at Pop Warner Junior Midgets, beating a team from Detriot 30-6. The Deroit team was loaded with athletes and was a spread to pass team, 4 wide most plays.
They wouold sub in their ENTIRE mmp group and run Power I double tight- that group never got a siingle first down, it killed them.

Best coached teams Ive seen- JPW PSL Pop Warner, PW AYF California Team- Oak Grove

More reports later. Great atmosphere for the kids.

Will give in depth stuff when I get back
Often watching 2 games at once

Watched 6 complete games yesterday.
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[*] posted on 12-9-2009 at 08:19 AM Reply With Quote


What systems are PSL running?



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[*] posted on 12-9-2009 at 08:27 AM Reply With Quote


Coach Cisar, is there any video link to the Championships? Can you share the contact information with the Spirit of Faith Coach?
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[*] posted on 12-9-2009 at 08:28 AM Reply With Quote


Dave,

You probably won't ge on line to see this but make sure you go see that Blackhawks/Liberty City JPW game (Pop Warner) at 9 am this morning.

If yod do, let me know how you would rate the Blackhawk running back (#1) against other 11/12 year olds that you have seen.


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
Ive been in Orlando since Monday at the Pop Warner and AFL National Championships

Seeing some great youth football games
Saw an incredible game yesterday, replay of the Midget National title game last year- Miami against a New Jersey team- Game came down to the final second 1.1 second left, score 14-8, double pass open with wall of blockers, ball dropped. Score had been 8-6 a TD was scored on fade router with 12 seconds left on 4th down. Unreal game- Both teams were running it between the tackles, 1 was Power I double tight, the Other ran a lot of double tight bone.

Saw my friend from Spririt of Faith (DC) at the AFL Championships. they have 3 teams in it, alll 100% using my system- the PW beat the 2 time defending National Champions- Staten Island Hurricanes 12-0 the . JPW beat an undefeated team from Houston 38-6 and the Tiny Mites won 40-0 over a team from Texas. the Houston team was spread, I overheard their coaches saying it was going to be a track meet, it was, but not the way you would think.

PSL looked like the team to beat at Pop Warner Junior Midgets, beating a team from Detriot 30-6. The Deroit team was loaded with athletes and was a spread to pass team, 4 wide most plays.
They wouold sub in their ENTIRE mmp group and run Power I double tight- that group never got a siingle first down, it killed them.

Best coached teams Ive seen- JPW PSL Pop Warner, PW AFL California Team- Oak Grove

More reports later. Great atmosphere for the kids.

Will give in depth stuff when I get back
Often watching 2 games at once

Watched 6 complete games yesterday.
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[*] posted on 12-9-2009 at 08:39 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by adolphrollingover
Coach Cisar, is there any video link to the Championships?


Not sure if you're looking for Pop Warner or AFL but here is the Pop Warner Web cast link: Cost is $6 per game.

http://www.popwarner.com/09superbowl/videostreaming-football.asp




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[*] posted on 12-9-2009 at 08:50 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by CoachMattC
Quote:
Originally posted by adolphrollingover
Coach Cisar, is there any video link to the Championships?


Not sure if you're looking for Pop Warner or AFL but here is the Pop Warner Web cast link: Cost is $6 per game.

http://www.popwarner.com/09superbowl/videostreaming-football.asp


Coach MattC: Thanks. That is what I was looking for.
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[*] posted on 12-9-2009 at 09:12 AM Reply With Quote


Hey Dave, Thanks for the updates, but c'mon now, enough about the offenses they ran, we wanna' hear about THE DEFENSES!...DE-FENSE! CLAP!CLAP DE-FENSE! CLAP!CLAP!:) But yeah Dave, are the DC teams also running your WT6 and/or Viper defenses? Thanks
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[*] posted on 12-9-2009 at 07:04 PM Reply With Quote


Dave, I was at that Midget game between the team from Miami and New Jersey. It was an exciting game at the end.

Did you see the fumble in the end zone by the team from Miami.? Not sure I understood the ruling. It appeared the player from Miami crossed the goal line and then fumbled and recovered by New Jersey. I thought once the ball broke the goal line it was a TD. The refs ruled it a fumble and gave the ball to New Jersey. I was sitting in the north bleachers and did not have the best view, but it appeared to be a TD and the Miami player clearly in the end zone when he fumbled.

I thought I recognized you at the game. Were you in the north bleachers on field 4?

Great game though...
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[*] posted on 12-9-2009 at 07:06 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by CoachMattC

What systems are PSL running?

Matt, last year I THINK they were a Single Wing team.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 09:51 AM Reply With Quote


I will be posting my findings/observations over the next 2 weeks
Shot a ton of film, got some great interviews from both tourneys Coaches, Refs, Pres AYF
Lots of game film clips that I will post as well

None of it suprised me-
No one running sweeps to win
No one running reverses/boots to win
Good tackling, blocking
Only 1 game in 16 that I saw was taken over by 1 player ( AYF Cadet level- 7-8s)
Every team there was trying to establish off tackle and had speed
None of the teams were beating themselves with turnovers and penalties
Good sportsmanship for the most part, minus a handful of fools in the stands of the Midget Championship game ( cant stand it when 20-25 people in the crowd didnt take off their hats or stop talking/yelling during the national anthem)
Pretty descent officiating minus several offensive face masking calls at the AYF games ( you have to grasp not just touch the mask)
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 09:54 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by tsnk4040
Dave, I was at that Midget game between the team from Miami and New Jersey. It was an exciting game at the end.

Did you see the fumble in the end zone by the team from Miami.? Not sure I understood the ruling. It appeared the player from Miami crossed the goal line and then fumbled and recovered by New Jersey. I thought once the ball broke the goal line it was a TD. The refs ruled it a fumble and gave the ball to New Jersey. I was sitting in the north bleachers and did not have the best view, but it appeared to be a TD and the Miami player clearly in the end zone when he fumbled.

I thought I recognized you at the game. Were you in the north bleachers on field 4?

Great game though...


Yes, unreal game
YEs, that was me, with some guys from Jupiter Florida
If the NJ team would have completed the last double pass at the end, they may have scored
I didnt get the punting- 2 for a net of of 5 yards on each?
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 10:00 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by seeindouble
Hey Dave, Thanks for the updates, but c'mon now, enough about the offenses they ran, we wanna' hear about THE DEFENSES!...DE-FENSE! CLAP!CLAP DE-FENSE! CLAP!CLAP!:) But yeah Dave, are the DC teams also running your WT6 and/or Viper defenses? Thanks


Yes the Spirit of Faith Warriors used my defense right out of the book
They had 4 teams there (AYF), 2nd year org
Last year won grand total 4-5 games
This year 4 league titles and 4 teams in the AYF Championships
This year had a team lose in finals and another come in third beating a very good JPW team from Virginia 14-13

More info to come on all the games I watched
Some good film as well

BEst coached teams I saw:
Port St Lucie FL- JM Pop Warner Champions DII
Oak Grove CA-AYF Pee Wees
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 11:02 AM Reply With Quote
National Championships



Maryland and Miami continue to dominate the Popwarner Superbowl. I really was impressed by the Watkins Hornets from DC. Also congrates to Stanley Blue devils for winning the D2 Jr.pw championship.



NorthCarolina is the place to be
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davecisar
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 11:30 AM Reply With Quote


Yes, Watkins Hornets, very good- well coached team

I interviewed their HC, very nice guy- first year in Orlando

VERY impressed with Stanley- In spoke for a long time/interviewed their HC- traditional Delaware Wing T team/ 6-2 defense.

No way Miami loses the Midget game-
during warmups- just 2 players shorter than me- Im 5'9" and lots of 6 footers.
They have a ton of travel experience
More on them later
I interviewed their HC as well- he is also their O-line coach
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 11:51 AM Reply With Quote


Looks like there were several others here on the forum in attendance

With the exception of 1 team at the youngest age group, I didnt see a single game dominated by any 1 back.

In fact I saw many very good backs, bottled up in the backfield. One of the best ones played for Detroit at the Junior Midget DII level, he didnt do anything in one of the games in the consolation game he did. What hurt his team: they were spread team, when they put their MMP kids in, they did it as an entire group and they only ran Power I between the tackles- 3 and out every time. 100% guarantee of 3 and out vs the well coached/ good scouting teams like the game I saw them play in.

In fact I saw several games where not a single sweep play was run.

For those in attendance, please chime in.
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 12:53 PM Reply With Quote


I was there as a volunteer Saturday for the Pop Warner D1 championships. I actually got the opportunity to announce the Jr Midget game when the guy from Disney took a break. A little nerve wracking with all the timing and production that was going on but it was fun. I screwed up less than five times so not too bad I need to listen to the tape and get better for next year ;)

I also tracked minimum plays for Richmond during the Midget game. I had met their coach previously, hes very sharp. They had all their kids finished by half-time and every kid got more than his minimum plays. Agreed Dave, there was no way they were losing that game.

I thought White Oak, MD was pretty impressive. Very precise throws and route running.




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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 12:56 PM Reply With Quote


I just realized that Richmond won the their three games at Disney by a combined score of 93-0.



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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 01:08 PM Reply With Quote


Richmond-
Very sharp
Very focused
Very Disciplined
Big ( for PW, lots of tall kids)
Athletic
Came off the ball well
Finished blocks off- physical
Well coached- HC very sharp guy
Excellent tacklers
Incredible pressure up front
Not really complex on offense- they want to run off tackle in the bone, when they wanted to pass they spread you out and made accurate throws to very TALL and athletic wide outs
Very confident

For those out there thinking their unlimted teams would walk all over the Midget teams in Disney, nope. I coach unlimited and have seen the best in the US unlimited teams play. This team could play and was well coached.

Excellent venue, classy event minus a few foolish "lost" parents.
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 02:34 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
Richmond-
Very sharp
Very focused
Very Disciplined
Big ( for PW, lots of tall kids)
Athletic
Came off the ball well
Finished blocks off- physical
Well coached- HC very sharp guy
Excellent tacklers
Incredible pressure up front
Not really complex on offense- they want to run off tackle in the bone, when they wanted to pass they spread you out and made accurate throws to very TALL and athletic wide outs
Very confident

For those out there thinking their unlimted teams would walk all over the Midget teams in Disney, nope. I coach unlimited and have seen the best in the US unlimited teams play. This team could play and was well coached.

Excellent venue, classy event minus a few foolish "lost" parents.


Dave

Why do you suppose PW has a rule that they cant play non PW teams? I would love to see the best unliminted play the best PW.

Would speed win or would size win?

Sounds like you were in Hog Heaven this past week !

Coach Mike
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 02:57 PM Reply With Quote


Mike,

Pop Warner not playing unlimiteds: control and insurance liability, they get better rates by saying they will only play teams with same rules and controlls etc

Speed over size, some of the Daytona Unlimited teams have some of both and good coaching etc. but the overall depth and consistency of many of the top PW teams was impressive. Much better than what I had anticipated.

Lots of these teams KNOW how to travel, lots of experience that is important. Until you travel 1000+ miles to play the unknown monster, you have no idea how to get your coaches, players and parents to handle it. It's different, until you have actually done it in real life.

The PW kids werent tiny, lots of real deal athleticism. Saw some good evidence of good fundamental coaching there as well.

The AYF teams at the lower age levels were on par with much of what I saw at the Pop Warner tournament, with the exception of the Midget levels. The unlimited division at AYF was not very deep at Midgets and good but not great at the other age levels, Ive seen better teams on average at Daytona in the upper Quality Divisions (Top Gun etc)

I know some guys talk all big and bad about PW, those are the same guys who never travel and who shut their traps when I call them and offer to come to their place for an end of season "Bowl Game".

It went by very quickly, I worked my butt off and still had time to take one of my kids along and to several attractions etc. I was going 6 am to 11 pm every night!
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 03:13 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
Until you travel 1000+ miles to play the unknown monster, you have no idea how to get your coaches, players and parents to handle it. It's different, until you have actually done it in real life.


Just to second this I was chatting with one of the Richmond assitants while I monitored his MPR's and all he could talk about was how he was so ready to get home. Just imagine being responsible for 30+ 14-16 year old boys for a week at Disney, much less getting them as focused and prepared as that team was.

They had three starters get benched for the first quarter of that game alone due to various problems.




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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 03:13 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
Mike,

Pop Warner not playing unlimiteds: control and insurance liability, they get better rates by saying they will only play teams with same rules and controlls etc

Speed over size, some of the Daytona Unlimited teams have some of both and good coaching etc. but the overall depth and consistency of many of the top PW teams was impressive. Much better than what I had anticipated.

Lots of these teams KNOW how to travel, lots of experience that is important. Until you travel 1000+ miles to play the unknown monster, you have no idea how to get your coaches, players and parents to handle it. It's different, until you have actually done it in real life.

The PW kids werent tiny, lots of real deal athleticism. Saw some good evidence of good fundamental coaching there as well.

The AYF teams at the lower age levels were on par with much of what I saw at the Pop Warner tournament, with the exception of the Midget levels. The unlimited division at AYF was not very deep at Midgets and good but not great at the other age levels, Ive seen better teams on average at Daytona in the upper Quality Divisions (Top Gun etc)

It went by very quickly, I worked my butt off and still had time to take one of my kids along and to several attractions etc. I was going 6 am to 11 pm every night!


Hey Dave, once again, Thanks for the great updates and feedback, and I'm sorry to see that Apopka lost in the semis, but a great season nonetheless. Also, I've never heard of the tournaments in Daytona, when do they play those, and do you have to be associated with PW or any of the other organizations to participate? Thanks...
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 03:16 PM Reply With Quote


No prob

Im going to post a BUNCH of video and findings over the next 2 weeks

Those that said 1 back dominates big games, takes over etc:
proven wrong at both the Pop Warner and AYF National Championships, not even remotely debateable topic. Top teams, good coaching, you just RARELY see it. Like spotting a Flavor Flave wannabe at a Garth Brooks concert.

Daytona is unlimited
Not associated with PW or AYF
Google Daytona Youth Football National Championships- it comes up
They play Thanksgiving Week
They have different levels of play and will seed you based on your record and league power rating.

One of my topics: $$$$
Huge obstacle
If you plan on going you must win AND have a plan in place to raise huge amounts of $$$. The top teams plan for it all year.
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 04:38 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Like spotting a Flavor Flave wannabe at a Garth Brooks concert.


Huh?
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 05:03 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by seeindouble
Quote:
Like spotting a Flavor Flave wannabe at a Garth Brooks concert.


Huh?


How often do you see Flavor Flave wannabes at Garth Brooks concerts?

About as often as you see 1 player dominating high quality, well coached youth football games such as the plethora of games I watched at the Pop Warner and AYF National Championships last week ;)
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 05:19 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by CoachMattC
Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
Until you travel 1000+ miles to play the unknown monster, you have no idea how to get your coaches, players and parents to handle it. It's different, until you have actually done it in real life.


Just to second this I was chatting with one of the Richmond assitants while I monitored his MPR's and all he could talk about was how he was so ready to get home. Just imagine being responsible for 30+ 14-16 year old boys for a week at Disney, much less getting them as focused and prepared as that team was.

They had three starters get benched for the first quarter of that game alone due to various problems.


Wait a second here...HS kids playing in a pee wee football league...now I remember how this works.

Coach Mike
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 05:38 PM Reply With Quote


Yep I saw age 5-16 last week from California to Florida, football is football.
At the AYF Championships they had some exhibition games for the real young kids.
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 06:04 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
Quote:
Originally posted by seeindouble
Quote:
Like spotting a Flavor Flave wannabe at a Garth Brooks concert.


Huh?


How often do you see Flavor Flave wannabes at Garth Brooks concerts?

About as often as you see 1 player dominating high quality, well coached youth football games such as the plethora of games I watched at the Pop Warner and AYF National Championships last week ;)

Dave, while I've heard of Garth Brooks, I definitely have NEVER been to one of His concerts, much less seen a Flavor Flave wannabe.;) And like you, I don't believe in that "1 back theory" either, but I'll have to say, that there are just some kids when they get to that second level, and into the open field...then it's Goodnight Irene. In a well coordinated running game, I mean some kids just hit the hole different...
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 06:10 PM Reply With Quote


I havent either, but I know the crowd ;)
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 07:11 PM Reply With Quote


I get a lot of questions on the quality of play in various parts of the country. What I can saw without huwting twoo many feewings is that there are areas of the country that have very good football that many people overlook.

One area is Maryland/Virginia. While there are plenty of unlimited teams in this area, this area is overrepresented in the championship level of Pop Warner and AYF

The largest youth contingent of attendees at clinics by percentage and numbers: Hands down Baltimore Glazier. Hard core, always over 300 coaches in attendance in all my sessions there.

Some data:
PopWarner
Div 1
PeeWee Champs
Watkins Hornets (DC)
Jr. Midgets White Oak Warriors (Wheaton, MD)

Div 2
Jr. Midgets #3
Lake Arbor Seahawks (Largo, MD)

AYF
Div 1
Cadet
Stafford Saints (Stafford, VA) #1
SPirit OF Faith Warriors (Temple Hills, MD) #2

JPW
Fredericksburg Bears (Fredericksburg, VA) #1
Spirit OF Faith Warriors (Temple Hills, MD) #3

PeeWee
Parkside Warriors (Baltimore, MD) #1

Jr. Midget
Manassas Mutiny (Manassas, VA) #2

Midget
Forest Park Blackhawks (Baltimore, MD) #3
Liberty Lions (Baltimore, MD) #5

AYF
Div 2
Cadet
Forest Park Blackhawks (Baltimore, MD) #1
UM Gators (Upper Marlboro, MD) #2
Manassas Mutiny (Manassas, VA) #5
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 07:47 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by mahonz
Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
Richmond-
Very sharp
Very focused
Very Disciplined
Big ( for PW, lots of tall kids)
Athletic
Came off the ball well
Finished blocks off- physical
Well coached- HC very sharp guy
Excellent tacklers
Incredible pressure up front
Not really complex on offense- they want to run off tackle in the bone, when they wanted to pass they spread you out and made accurate throws to very TALL and athletic wide outs
Very confident

For those out there thinking their unlimted teams would walk all over the Midget teams in Disney, nope. I coach unlimited and have seen the best in the US unlimited teams play. This team could play and was well coached.

Excellent venue, classy event minus a few foolish "lost" parents.


Dave

Why do you suppose PW has a rule that they cant play non PW teams? I would love to see the best unliminted play the best PW.

Would speed win or would size win?

Sounds like you were in Hog Heaven this past week !

Coach Mike


Actually,If Im not mistaken I think Popwarner changed this rule this year and said that after the season's over the teams may play whoever as long as they remove the patch or anything affiliated with Pop warner.




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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 08:21 PM Reply With Quote


"One area is Maryland/Virginia. While there are plenty of unlimited teams in this area, this area is overrepresented in the championship level of Pop Warner and AYF

The largest youth contingent of attendees at clinics by percentage and numbers: Hands down Baltimore Glazier. Hard core, always over 300 coaches in attendance in all my sessions there."

Awsome point Dave...COACHING MATTERS!
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 08:58 PM Reply With Quote


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Originally posted by mahonz

Why do you suppose PW has a rule that they cant play non PW teams? I would love to see the best unliminted play the best PW.

Would speed win or would size win?


It has to do with an insurance thing. I'm sure if someone wanted to put it all together it could be pulled off. But generally, different orgs have different rules and you'd have to come to some sort of "USA Football" type of rules consolidation. In addition, once your season is over, most kids, parents and coaches are ready to move on to the next thing (whatever that is), so scheduling becomes an issue, too.

We couldn't even put something like that together here in town. Another team from the city rec league was interested in playing us. Pop Warner forbids us from playing them in season, plus there was no time to coordinate it. When would we play? Once our regular season ended, we were in the play-offs. Once our post-season run ended, I don't know how long it had been since the rec league team had even played a game. Had they even continued practicing? I know they have different weight rules than we do. The heaviest our kids can weigh is 120. Theirs is 150. Some parents may not be interested in allowing their child to participate. How do you do the insurance for just that one game? In post-season, Pop Warner will allow us to participate against non-Pop Warner teams, but we aren't allowed to wear uniforms with any Pop Warner identification on them. In our case, we would have to get new uniforms from somewhere because the logo is on our jerseys and pants. All in all, seems like a lot of hassle for an exhibition game.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 09:03 PM Reply With Quote


Well they have some kids that can play too, along with very knowledgeable and committed coaches.

But football is "IMPORTANT" in this area.

The parents dont blink twice about shelling out $250 to play and sign on to commit to raising another $1,000 per player to make the trip, and many of these teams were from poor areas.

One coach I interviewed said he had to leave 4-5 of his best players at home because the kids and mom/dad wouldnt effort to help raise funds.

Very serious and committed about their football, like many areas. BUT when you think of great football, people that live and breathe it, you dont often think of Maryland/Virginia. That's what I was trying to say. Most of us think Texas, Florida, Cal, Ohio and Georgia first maybe. But there is a lot of good football being played/coached in a lot of places.

Heck, my Omaha kids/parents would travel anywhere to play even if we had to play up an age group, where I am now, no chance.
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 09:05 PM Reply With Quote


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Originally posted by CoachMattC

They had three starters get benched for the first quarter of that game alone due to various problems.

Better that Richmond does it, instead of Disney. Disney has thrown a few teams out of Orlando for not behaving. Still, when I was down there, I've seen Disney put up with an awful lot. A lot of parents (and coaches) have no idea how to curb their kids.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 09:15 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar

One of my topics: $$$$
Huge obstacle
If you plan on going you must win AND have a plan in place to raise huge amounts of $$$. The top teams plan for it all year.

Dollar$ are a huge part of Pop Warner football. To coordinate a nationwide event down to Disney is a large-scale undertaking. Pop Warner teams can only stay at "Pop Warner-endorsed" hotels EVEN if you can find a better rate at another hotel that you prefer. Pop Warner will nickel and dime you to death, but if you want to play, you'd better be prepared to pay. That's why Pop Warner Division 3 was created: for those who couldn't afford Disney.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 09:53 PM Reply With Quote


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Originally posted by seeindouble

"One area is Maryland/Virginia. While there are plenty of unlimited teams in this area, this area is overrepresented in the championship level of Pop Warner and AYF

The largest youth contingent of attendees at clinics by percentage and numbers: Hands down Baltimore Glazier. Hard core, always over 300 coaches in attendance in all my sessions there."

Awsome point Dave...COACHING MATTERS!

Not to diminish the job well done by the coaches in the northern Va/MD/DC-area but whether middle school football exists in your area has a great deal to do with whether you are the only game in town, or whether the talent's getting divided up. I know that middle school football, for the most part, is non-existent up there. When that's the case, the PeeWee, Jr. Midget and Midget teams can thrive. But down here, middle school is a huge leech. For instance, Capital City (in nearby Raleigh) has had some success with its older teams and its Midget team won the national title in 2005. But they couldn't even field a Midget team this year. Our own org has had a Midget team for the past 6 or 7 years and every year it's on life-support. Same with our Jr. Midget team. In our conference, the scarcity of teams at the older level is so great that of the 14 organizations in our league, there are only 6 Midget teams. Contrast that with our Jr. PeeWee-level (which doesn't get impacted by middle school), and there are more than three times as many teams (19). Of the 33 players from my 2008 team that could move up to Jr. Midget, 25 went on to play at middle school this year. Middle school football just bleeds us dry down here.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-14-2009 at 10:44 PM Reply With Quote


That's a good point. We start middle school ball in the 6th grade. A lot of kids play for their schools. None of the leagues in our area even have 8th grade football. By that time, all the kids play for their schools.
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 08:22 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by CoachAbode
That's a good point. We start middle school ball in the 6th grade. A lot of kids play for their schools. None of the leagues in our area even have 8th grade football. By that time, all the kids play for their schools.

It's weird, but in our area we do pretty good with the rec league Juniors (11-14) and middle school, but for whatever reason, the midget division in PW just suffers, but I think that has something to do with the PW registration fee. Also, as far as with that age group, there must be some unwritten rule that says, "That age group can't be coached", because that's what I hear from a lot of JPW coaches...
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 08:27 AM Reply With Quote


DP,

I understand what you are saying, who knows if that is the case everywhere. It may be the case, others may live under similar constraints or even worse.

Here, they have Junior High football starting in the 7th grade, so 13 years old. It would affect the Junior Midget and Midget teams. BUT the best and most experienced players play club ball because: they play twice as many games as school ball, smaller teams 40-50 compared to 20-24 ( more intensive coaching/more playing time), games are on Sundays not at 3:00 in the weekday afternoon when mom/dad are working, better coaching, travel, better competition etc etc
All the top players in this state play club ball, the school has lots of first time players and kids that want to be seen in the school uniform thing.

Im sure that is the case in a number of places as well, we all have our pluses and minuses. In our league we have a disadvantage at 7-8th. There are several Catholic schools (Class B- second largest class in state- we feed into a Class B school) that use the league as their only place to play, they wear the schools colors, name etc. We "compete" with the local Jr High for kids. By the time my kids get to 7-8th they know the deal, our best players stay, our very weakest players stay (they know Im going to play them) we lose some kids in the middle who we really need but maybe they think they can play more or a different position when they get to another team (rarely happens) or they like the schools much shorter season. Maybe mom or dad don't buy into our tough love, character development, faith based program etc who knows. Im also at a disadvantage because I refuse to "recruit" my own kids. I dont want to tell them not to play school ball- heck we practice and play games at the school. Hence we dont even recruit new 7-8th grade players through the school like we do for the 3-6th grade.

It puts us at a disadvantage, how well we coach and how well we treat/play/develop even our worst players hurts our competitiveness-we dont run anyone off- one of the reasons we were the smallest team ever at that age group again this season. Other towns the kids play on both the school and club team, in 1 town the HC was the HC for both. We had 4 kids maybe that played both, doable but not recommended, since our practices are far more mentally than physically demanding, it was doable for a handfull of kids.

The net is we all have constraints to deal with and I saw some real good football, only a handful of teams that were not just simply outstanding at fundamentals. We all have to adapt and overcome the best we can, aka coaching ;)

Also- even before there was even Junior High football in Omaha or locally ( it had disbanded in favor of club ball 30 years ago and just brought back 5 years ago) there were always more teams in the younger age groups than older ones. Lots of kids drop by age 13 when they figure out they arent the star or get into something else. Teams in our league that would have 10 age 8-10 teams would only field 2 age 13-14 teams- yes with no Junior High football. So the lower numbers at the older age groups seems fairly "normal" on its own even without Jr High football.

If I had all those Jr High kids (about 80) to choose from, could I compete on a National Stage in Daytona? From time to time I would like to think so, not every year. But we will never know.
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 11:52 AM Reply With Quote


This is an interesting subject... I always find it interesting to see how things are going in the different regions of the country.

In our area... especially in the small towns most of the players play school ball when they hit the 7th grade. The small town school vs the other small town school 10 miles down the road pulls the parents and kids away from Club ball. The school loyalty thing is big here. But below 7th grade the club ball rosters are full. (Most 7th graders that play club ball here are band members.) [EDIT] However that is just mostly for the small towns. Each big city has a different senario.

Interesting stuff guys... thanks

j
PS... We don't have Pop Warner here. Just local clubs and rec ball.




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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 01:12 PM Reply With Quote


I will post some film and findings later this week, you all can comment- except for those that think the coach/team being commented on have to be in the room to "defend" themselves. I dont have the contact info for all the teams/coaches I filmed, therefore I guess those guys that live by that code will have to stay silent ;)
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 02:14 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by CoachDP
Quote:
Originally posted by seeindouble

"One area is Maryland/Virginia. While there are plenty of unlimited teams in this area, this area is overrepresented in the championship level of Pop Warner and AYF

The largest youth contingent of attendees at clinics by percentage and numbers: Hands down Baltimore Glazier. Hard core, always over 300 coaches in attendance in all my sessions there."

Awsome point Dave...COACHING MATTERS!

Not to diminish the job well done by the coaches in the northern Va/MD/DC-area but whether middle school football exists in your area has a great deal to do with whether you are the only game in town, or whether the talent's getting divided up. I know that middle school football, for the most part, is non-existent up there. When that's the case, the PeeWee, Jr. Midget and Midget teams can thrive. But down here, middle school is a huge leech. For instance, Capital City (in nearby Raleigh) has had some success with its older teams and its Midget team won the national title in 2005. But they couldn't even field a Midget team this year. Our own org has had a Midget team for the past 6 or 7 years and every year it's on life-support. Same with our Jr. Midget team. In our conference, the scarcity of teams at the older level is so great that of the 14 organizations in our league, there are only 6 Midget teams. Contrast that with our Jr. PeeWee-level (which doesn't get impacted by middle school), and there are more than three times as many teams (19). Of the 33 players from my 2008 team that could move up to Jr. Midget, 25 went on to play at middle school this year. Middle school football just bleeds us dry down here.

--Dave

DP

Makes good sense, but That still wouldnt account for the disparity of Maryland/Virginia teams in the lower non jr high brackets.
PW and AYF is very popular in lots of areas of the country, Northeast, Southeast, California, Illinois/Ohio etc so not sure it is a numbers deal either, MUYFB is huge unlimited league as are others etc- I just find it interesting:

Free addmission to any Glazier Clinic and I can tell you which of the ones I went to with the largest contingent of youth coaches- it wasnt where you ( at least I) would expect it.
It was in Baltimore, by a huge margin.
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 03:41 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
[

Free addmission to any Glazier Clinic and I can tell you which of the ones I went to with the largest contingent of youth coaches- it wasnt where you ( at least I) would expect it.
It was in Baltimore, by a huge margin.

Dave, that's why I said you made a good point, I think if more coaches (particularly Youth Coaches) would attend clinics and visit sites like this one, the quality of Youth Coaching would get better. That's why I've come to the conclusion that if one takes themselves serious as a Coach, then you will submit to the fact that you will ALWAYS be a student of the game...
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 05:51 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
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Makes good sense, but That still wouldnt account for the disparity of Maryland/Virginia teams in the lower non jr high brackets.

In Pop Warner, the only non-jr. high bracket is Junior PeeWee (that is eligible for national championship play). If we go as far back as 2000, the national champions have come from:

National Championships

Division 1
Florida--6 times
California--twice
Maryland--twice
North Carolina--twice
Illinois--once
Southeast Virginia--once

Division 2
North Carolina--5 times
Florida--three times
California--once
New Jersey--once
Ohio--once
New York--once
Northern Virginia--once
Pennsylvania--once

While I certainly see an EAST COAST bias in terms of Pop Warner championship success, I don't see a dominance of northern Va/Md/DC teams (they have won 3 of the 29 championships listed and trail both Florida (9 national championships) and North Carolina (7 national championships). This not a knock on the quality of coaching in the NoVa/Md/DC-area. But it could address why they haven't been more dominant at the middle school-level age group.

Youth football is big in Baltimore. But when there's no middle school football around to compete with it, I'd expect it to be big. Nothing wrong with that. Just sayin'.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 06:21 PM Reply With Quote


DP

Pee Wee goes to what grade?
I thought it was 9, 10, 11 older lighter 12s ?
That would mean primarly 3,4,5,6th graders
Most Middle schools I thought start in the 7th grade, they do around here.

How would it compare if you added Pee Wees and added the AYF Champions?

Whose to know if they dont have the same middle school problems others have? I know there are a ton of unlimited leagues there as well. What I did find odd was the fact the youth attendance numbers at their clinics were 2x to 5x compared to the numbers attending other free Glazier Clinics.

On another note, do the leagues provide funds to help send the league winners to Disney? I know 1 org that wrote a 20K check to send their cheer squad to Disney, they had won some kind of regional championship. How does one get reasonably priced plane tickets and raise funds when you find out you win and play in Florida a week later?

My friends in AYF were o-fer the previous season and got through 1/2 thier season undefeated- figured they might make it to Orlando and started raising runds like madmen etc
then hoped they would make it. 2nd year org, definitely travel rookies- you can tell the teams like Oak Grove who travel every year, definite logistical nightmare to navigate. Ive been on teams that travel as a kids and traveled with my own teams- it's definitely an experience, HUGE undertaking.
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 06:39 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar

Pee Wee goes to what grade?
I thought it was 9, 10, 11 older lighter 12s ?
That would mean primarly 3,4,5,6th graders
Most Middle schools I thought start in the 7th grade, they do around here.

Yes, middle school football does begin in the 7th grade. (At least it does here.) And the age range for PeeWee is 9-12. However, we don't find very many 9 or 10s playing at the PeeWee level. I had one 9 and one 10. The rest of my players were 11 and 12. My point is that the Junior PeeWee level is the only age-group that is untouched by middle school football. It starts to become an influencing factor at PeeWee (my age level) and then becomes a heavy influence by Jr. Midget and Midget. I lose a few kids to middle school every year, but it is the Jr. Midget and Midget levels where it really takes a toll on us.

--DP
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 06:41 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar

How would it compare if you added Pee Wees and added the AYF Champions?

I dunno. I'll check and get back to you on this.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 07:29 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
Whose to know if they dont have the same middle school problems others have? I know there are a ton of unlimited leagues there as well.


We do NOT have middle school football in MD (don't think VA has it either). However, MD and VA have MANY different youth football leagues. Pop Warner is not that big in MD, in comparison to other leagues, quite frankly. A local program recently left b/c (as told to me by a higher up in org.) that they had to travel all over state and it was not as well organized/officiated/etc. Why go so far when you can get better quality games, and better officiating, nearby. Obviously, there's some very talented and, from what I read here, WELL COACHED teams in the mix, otherwise they could not win at Disney. But, I do know one thing, there's ALOT of competition and kids playing football in MD and VA.

Quote:
What I did find odd was the fact the youth attendance numbers at their clinics were 2x to 5x compared to the numbers attending other free Glazier Clinics.

Don't know about others, but I did walk into yours at the Inner Harbor (cannot recall if last year or year before) and it was a huge room packed with coaches. Youth football and HS football is a big deal around here.

BTW, and fwiw, Prince Georges County (outside DC) was rated by ESPN magazine last year as #1 "hoops hotbed" (presume that means prime locale for HS basketball talent). We do have athletes in these parts.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3775073




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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 07:51 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
While I certainly see an EAST COAST bias in terms of Pop Warner championship success, I don't see a dominance of northern Va/Md/DC teams (they have won 3 of the 29 championships listed and trail both Florida (9 national championships) and North Carolina (7 national championships). This not a knock on the quality of coaching in the NoVa/Md/DC-area. But it could address why they haven't been more dominant at the middle school-level age group.


Dave--I'm not that knowledgeable about Pop Warner around here, but I do know that the other leagues are HUGELY popular. We just had a MD state championship (with alot of hullaballoo about how it was only about making money, poorly organized, etc.) that had alot of interest. Much, much more so, among the coaches I know, than going to Disney.

Not sure about NoVA, but I don't think Pop Warner's all that big there either. I could be wrong, and I'll let the NoVA guys explain its popularity in their region.

I do know that the Pop Warner teams from here that go down to Florida are VERY talented teams. I strongly suspect that SOME of these teams are composed of recruited kids at key positions. I've been told that one team in particular, that won several years ago, had a "who's who" list of recruited players. Several went on to stellar HS careers and college.




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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 08:14 PM Reply With Quote


Im not familiar with the inner workings of all these teams.

I do know for 100% certainty the SOF Warriors in AYF takes all comers, no cuts or selective recruiting etc, they made it to Orlando.
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 08:18 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
Im not familiar with the inner workings of all these teams.

Nor am I.

Quote:
I do know for 100% certainty the SOF Warriors in AYF takes all comers, no cuts or selective recruiting etc, they made it to Orlando.


That's great. Sounds like a first class organization! Congrats to their championship.




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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 08:25 PM Reply With Quote


You can go to www.espn360.com and watch the replay on all the Pop Warner Division I games.

Just an observation on the championship games in Division I. There was no close games and wonder if the best teams played against each other earlier in the week. Not sure how they determine who plays each other in the first round or if they can fairly seed teams before the start

Dave: I watched the Port St. Lucie Junior Midget (PW) team play in the division II championship game and they were very good on both sides of the ball. They were a single wing team and scored 30 points in the first half, but could of scored 60 in the game if not for the 28 ponit rule in Pop Warner. The final score was 30-0 and the most impressive team I saw all week.

Pop Warner & Disney put on a great event.
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 09:37 PM Reply With Quote


I was at both Port St Lucie games, I know the HC fairly well. In their Tuesday game, they won in a blow out and once ahead didnt show a thing, they held a bunch of what they do back. You can buy film of every game- everyone scouts heavily- holding back if you can is real big.

Im not familiar with the seeding proccess

YEs the Midget game on Tuesday was the nail biter, a real wild one, not the championship game,

I didnt realize when up by 28 they blow the ball dead if you ever get outside the tackles, even if you start the play inside, not sure how in the world you get any of your mmp kids scores when they load 11 in the box.
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 11:27 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by CoachDP
Quote:
[However, we don't find very many 9 or 10s playing at the PeeWee level. I had one 9 and one 10. The rest of my players were 11 and 12. My point is that the Junior PeeWee level is the only age-group that is untouched by middle school football. It starts to become an influencing factor at PeeWee (my age level) and then becomes a heavy influence by Jr. Midget and Midget.
--DP

DP, do you think those 9s and 10s are playing rec ball? And also, you said that middle school ball was bleeding you guys dry, how long is the middle school season where you're at?
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[*] posted on 12-15-2009 at 11:54 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by JB

We do NOT have middle school football in MD (don't think VA has it either).

JB,
Northern Virginia doesn't have it, but southeast Virginia does. That's why I split up Virginia in the example I provided.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 12:02 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by JB

Not sure about NoVA, but I don't think Pop Warner's all that big there either. I could be wrong, and I'll let the NoVA guys explain its popularity in their region.

JB,
There used to be three Pop Warner conferences in Virginia, NoVa (Northern Virginia), CVa (Central Virginia) and SeVa (Southeastern Virginia). NoVa got tossed out of Pop Warner after the 2006 season. I included them in the breakdown because Dale City won the national championship when NoVa was still a member.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 12:06 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by JB

I do know that the Pop Warner teams from here that go down to Florida are VERY talented teams. I strongly suspect that SOME of these teams are composed of recruited kids at key positions.


Stacking and recruiting are common in Pop Warner, regardless of where the teams are from.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 12:19 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by tsnk4040

Just an observation on the championship games in Division I. There was no close games and wonder if the best teams played against each other earlier in the week. Not sure how they determine who plays each other in the first round or if they can fairly seed teams before the start.

I'm not sure how the seedings are done. I don't think there's any way to determine what a "fair" way of seeding the teams would be. In Division 2, it's even more bizarre with a Tomlin national champion and a Warner national champion. When we were down there in 2003, we were Division 1 Warner national champions. In D1, the Warner and Tomlin divisions have since been combined so that there is only one national champion. In Division 2, they have combined the Jr. PeeWee and PeeWee championships, but still had a separate Warner and Tomlin champion at Jr. Midget and Midget.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 12:36 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar

I was at both Port St Lucie games, I know the HC fairly well.

DC,
Yes, the PSL coach (Jeff Miret) is an excellent coach and good guy. He had a terrific squad last year, but lost 28-22 to Union Road (a Double Wing team). We would have faced Jeff's squad in the first round in Florida had we beaten Union Road in the Mid-South Region championship game.

--DP
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 02:51 AM Reply With Quote


Pop Warner National Championships (since 2000)
MIDGET Division

Division1

Florida--3
Maryland--3
California--1
District of Columbia--1
Northern Virginia--1
Pennsylvania--1

The results above show a strong lead for the NoVa/Md/DC-area. They have 5 national championships. Florida is second with 3.

Division 2

Florida--6
Maryland--2
New York--2
Rhode Island--2
Massachusetts--1
Michigan--1
Mexico--1
North Carolina--1
Pennsylvania--1
Southeastern Virginia--1
Texas--1

In the D2 Midget Division there are more champions because one is a "Warner" champion and another is a "Tomlin." In D2, Florida dominates. I have no idea as to whether there's middle school ball down there. (I'm sure someone here knows.) But Maryland ties for second with 2. Perhaps the NoVa/Md/DC-area teams don't participate as much in D2. I'm not sure. However, when our Midget team played against teams from that area, it was always in a D1 post-season game.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 03:06 AM Reply With Quote


Pop Warner National Championships (since 2000)
JUNIOR MIDGET Division

Division1

Florida--6
Maryland--4
California--3
Southeastern Virginia--1


Division 2

Florida--5
California--3
North Carolina--3
Maryland--2
New Jersey--2
Connecticut--1
Illinois--1
New York--1

In the D2 Junior Midget Division, three states have more than Maryland. However, there's no way to know how many Pop Warner teams are D2 in Maryland.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 03:18 AM Reply With Quote


Pop Warner National Championships (since 2000)
PEEWEE Division

Division1

Maryland--5
Florida--4
California--3
District of Columbia--2
Illinois--1

In Division 1, the Maryland/DC-combo has almost twice as many championships as Florida (7-4).


Division 2

Florida--4
California--3
New Jersey--3
Northern Virginia--2
Connecticut--1
Arizona--1
Hawaii--1
Maryland--1
North Carolina--1
Texas--1

In D2 PeeWee, Florida has 4 and NoVa/Md have 3.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 03:25 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by CoachDP


In D2, Florida dominates. I have no idea as to whether there's middle school ball down there. (I'm sure someone here knows.)
--Dave

Dave, I live in Northwest Florida, and we have middle school football in our region. I was born and raised in South Florida, but we didn't have middle school football there when I was coming up, and I think it's still that way. And I think that's one of the reasons Florida dominates in those tournaments and such, because when I was coming up in South Florida, you didn't get a taste of playing for a school until you got to Senior HS...
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 03:25 AM Reply With Quote


In summary, at Division 1 Pop Warner, the area without middle school football (Northern Virginia, Maryland and the District of Columbia) have been dominant at the Midget level (5 national championships to Florida's 3) and also at the PeeWee level (7 national championships to Florida's 4). At the Junior Midget level, Florida has been the strongest, but Maryland is second. (6-4). In total, at these three age groups, NoVa/Md/DC has the most national championships (16). Florida is second with 13.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 03:29 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by CoachDP
In summary, at Division 1 Pop Warner, the area without middle school football (Northern Virginia, Maryland and the District of Columbia) have been dominant at the Midget level (5 national championships to Florida's 3) and also at the PeeWee level (7 national championships to Florida's 4). At the Junior Midget level, Florida has been the strongest, but Maryland is second. (6-4). In total, at these three age groups, NoVa/Md/DC has the most national championships (16). Florida is second with 13.

--Dave

So that's probably the common denominator right there...no middle school football...
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 03:37 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by seeindouble

Dave, I live in Northwest Florida, and we have middle school football in our region.

Do you know if any of the Pop Warner Florida champions are from your area? As noted earlier, Southeast Virginia has middle school football, but Northern Virginia doesn't. I wasn't aware of just how much of a difference it made until I started looking at this info. But I've known for a long time that if middle school ball in our area didn't exist, our two oldest teams could be quite strong. It's kind of ridiculous that our PeeWee team has won the conference title in 2007, 2008 and 2009 and yet our Jr. Midgets went 3-4 this year and our Midgets went 4-4. That's a pretty sharp fall off. What happens is, our best players think they are "ready" for middle school so they bolt, while they kids who know they aren't ready, stay here.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 04:02 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by CoachDP
Quote:
Originally posted by seeindouble

Dave, I live in Northwest Florida, and we have middle school football in our region.

Do you know if any of the Pop Warner Florida champions are from your area? As noted earlier, Southeast Virginia has middle school football, but Northern Virginia doesn't. I wasn't aware of just how much of a difference it made until I started looking at this info. But I've known for a long time that if middle school ball in our area didn't exist, our two oldest teams could be quite strong. It's kind of ridiculous that our PeeWee team has won the conference title in 2007, 2008 and 2009 and yet our Jr. Midgets went 3-4 this year and our Midgets went 4-4. That's a pretty sharp fall off. What happens is, our best players think they are "ready" for middle school so they bolt, while they kids who know they aren't ready, stay here.

--Dave

No Dave, I just checked. The closest one in our immediate area was Jacksonville, I did come across your team though. But man, that Pop Warner site is a mess, they need to find a way to streamline that stuff, or maybe I'm just tech challenged or something...
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 04:06 AM Reply With Quote


Yeah, I agree with you about their site. Waay too cumbersome.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 07:14 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by CoachDP
Quote:
Originally posted by seeindouble

Dave, I live in Northwest Florida, and we have middle school football in our region.

Do you know if any of the Pop Warner Florida champions are from your area? As noted earlier, Southeast Virginia has middle school football, but Northern Virginia doesn't. I wasn't aware of just how much of a difference it made until I started looking at this info. But I've known for a long time that if middle school ball in our area didn't exist, our two oldest teams could be quite strong. It's kind of ridiculous that our PeeWee team has won the conference title in 2007, 2008 and 2009 and yet our Jr. Midgets went 3-4 this year and our Midgets went 4-4. That's a pretty sharp fall off. What happens is, our best players think they are "ready" for middle school so they bolt, while they kids who know they aren't ready, stay here.

--Dave


I dont see how the Pee Wee Division is affected by MS football. Age 12 is 6th grade here, MS ball is 7th grade here as well- probably why your Pee Wees are good and your Jr Midgets arent.

Another wrench in the works is there are a TON of private schools on Florida, Ive never seen such a high % of Faith based and just plain private schools. Im not sure most of them have middle school ball, I know schools like Jupiter Christian dont. Here in Nebraska we dont have anywhere near the number of private schools or even home schooled kids like they do in Florida. My guess is that may also be the case in states where the Public School test scores/quality is ranked low, may even be a correlation there.

We do however share the same problem you do for our 7-8th grade teams. We keep the very top and very weakest kids and lose some in the middle that could really help us- when we play teams that are school based- parochial school etc we are at a disadvantage- challenging. That's why I was so tickled and surprised our 7-8th graders went 9-1 this season.

Numbers wise my guess is Florida, California, New Jersey, Mass. Illinois have a lot more kids playing PW than Maryland/No Virginia and North Carolina, it seems like for whatever reason they are more represented than the population base would dictate. Im always interested to find out if correlations exist.
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 07:44 AM Reply With Quote


I live outside of Tampa, FL (Pasco County) and we have middle school football. Our Pop Warner organiztion has no problem fielded teams through the Peewee division, but have trouble with Junior Midget and did not even field a Midget team in 2009 because of MS football.

Our Peewee team is not affected by MS football. Most of our Peewee players are 5th-6th graders and some older/lighter 7th graders. The MS team is made up only with 7th-8th graders, and you must be really good to play as a 7th graders. Note: Hillsborough county within Tampa does not have MS Football.

Pasco County MS Football only plays six games and no playoffs. Not sure I see an advantage of playing MS football getting you ready for HS. Our area HS teams are not power houses. Hillsborough County (Tampa) does not have MS football and they have some very good HS programs.

Another challenge in our area is there are 4 other independent leagues and we all comptete for kids/players.
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 08:39 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar



quote]
--Dave


I dont see how the Pee Wee Division is affected by MS football. Age 12 is 6th grade here, MS ball is 7th grade here as well- probably why your Pee Wees are good and your Jr Midgets arent.

Dave, MS where I live starts at 6th grade. But it seems to me, like you said, that PW takes the biggest hit around here when it comes to the over 12s. From what I've observed, MS and Rec League are thriving when it comes to the over 12s, which in turn are competing factors for PW.
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 08:41 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
Another wrench in the works is there are a TON of private schools on Florida, Ive never seen such a high % of Faith based and just plain private schools. Im not sure most of them have middle school ball, I know schools like Jupiter Christian dont. Here in Nebraska we dont have anywhere near the number of private schools or even home schooled kids like they do in Florida. My guess is that may also be the case in states where the Public School test scores/quality is ranked low, may even be a correlation there.


Not sure about the rest of the state but in Central FL there are definitely tons of private schools and yes, the bigger ones do field football teams. We compete with private schools for kids every year in our league. Private school ball is very uncompetitive, noone gets enough enrollment to field a decent team. You are correct, we have some of the worst public schools in the nation so if they have the means, parents are sending their kids to private schools.

About MS ball affecting the Pee Wee's, MS goes 6th, 7th and 8th grade around here so our Pee Wee teams are usually split between different schools.




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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 09:20 AM Reply With Quote


How about homeschooled kids?
Homeschooling is increasing DRAMATICLY, now over 1.3 million "registered" homeschoolers, doesnt account for states that do not require registering.
Last year I had 3
The year before I had 5
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 09:24 AM Reply With Quote


Only had one home schooled kid on my team this year, but its not out of the norm. I know of a couple more in our association but far and away more private school kids.



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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 10:24 AM Reply With Quote


Vastly overlooked area to sign up players from

Locally there is a Homeschool network
They get together to trade books, tips, go on field trips etc
They take announcements and they do monthly
e-newsletters, costs $0

Negative- lots of kids from there that for whatever reason start football real late, in 2008, of the 5 new homeschool kids I got: 2 were rookies as 8th graders and 2 were rookies as 7th graders- tough deal
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 10:25 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
How about homeschooled kids?
Homeschooling is increasing DRAMATICLY, now over 1.3 million "registered" homeschoolers, doesnt account for states that do not require registering.
Last year I had 3
The year before I had 5

Since I've been a parent, I've only had the opportunity to meet one family who homeschooled their kids. As far as private schools go, you're right on that one, because naturally the private schools are feeders for when the kids get to their Sr. HS years at their prospective schools.
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 10:37 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by CoachMattC
Only had one home schooled kid on my team this year, but its not out of the norm. I know of a couple more in our association but far and away more private school kids.

Matt, how's the competition in Polk County. I remember living their for a few years, and the quality of athletes there was unreal.
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 11:54 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar

I dont see how the Pee Wee Division is affected by MS football. Age 12 is 6th grade here, MS ball is 7th grade here as well- probably why your Pee Wees are good and your Jr Midgets arent.


Here, if a kid is 12, he's in the 7th grade. Most kids begin the 1st Grade at the age of 6.

DP's Age/Grade Chart in NC (lol)

Age 6--Grade 1
Age 7--Grade 2
Age 8--Grade 3
Age 9--Grade 4
Age 10-Grade 5
Age 11-Grade 6
Age 12-Grade 7

All of my 12-year-olds were in the 7th grade this year. While middle school does not effect all players at the PeeWee level, it will effect the older/lighters who are a valuable commodity in Pop Warner. I made the separation at Jr. PeeWee because that was the only age group completely unaffected by middle school.

--DP
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 12:06 PM Reply With Quote


DP,

I see what you are saying. But dont most O/L kids being they are small for their age and see (parents see) the chance for them to play alot and maybe even dominate as well as play more games with kids they have already played with, lead them to decide to play another year of PW? Seems logical.

Spoke to some PW coaches in Orlando who even have some 9th graders playing because the frosh teams were either had so many kids or some HS teams there didnt even have frosh teams- kids were playing JV so they worked it out with the HS for the kids to play their 9th grade year in PW. Sounds odd, but I guess it happens in some places with some of the smaller kids. For me my kids will play club ball until they get into 9th grade.
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 01:32 PM Reply With Quote


Yeah I think that with middle school football the size of your city also has alot to do with the numbers and quality of kids you get to come out. Here in charlotte, the Jr.midget level isnt affected as much as the other areas in NC that has PW as they also have middle school football. I was suprised to see some associations field more than one team at that age. My hometown area doesn't have Middle school football so thats why teams like the Oak Ridge Colts have seemed to thrive at the older age levels....But being my first year with AYF, I think it may be an excellent idea for the midget kids to have an unlimited weight system. No one(to my knowledge) uses the the Jr.Bantam/Bantam weight schematics and Im not sure if anyone who makes the descisions has done any research on the size of the 7th-9th grade kids now a days. I think it would help increase numbers of those leagues who have to compete with school ball and actually would bring them a little more notoriety. If not unlimited atleast 200lbs.



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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 02:46 PM Reply With Quote


Just to clarify the stacking teams/recruiting in PW....last year my Team Played in PW....every effort was definitely made to stack teams in pretty much everything but especially D1...

As for recruiting...i don't know for certain but there have been lots of rumors of certain teams that will "run off" kids who are not good enough.

MY PW observations from my limited experience...

1. Very unorganized(games rarely started on time usually an hour late, teams would have 2 byes in a season while others in their division had none), they made up rules as they went along(running clock for MM's)...

2. The competition level on the average was not that impressive...although there were stacked teams that did very well..as stacked teams tend to do....the level of coaching was not impressive at all...there were a couple towns that seemed to have their stuff together...the rest seemed to rely on "give the ball to the fast kid around the end"....

3. MPR's were not enforced at all during the regular season...we played a team that had 8 kids not even get in the game...I mentioned it to the other teams coach...and he said "so f'n" what....

4. They will let anyone in...there were teams that didn't even have a field to play on....and others that had fields that didn't have goal posts...one time we had a team with a broken bathroom scale to weigh in.

5. Teams with the most older/lighters tend to win disproportionately more.

PW here is actually a pretty small fish...there are other leagues around that have alot more teams...but they are making some good steps.


TW




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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 03:24 PM Reply With Quote


It sounds to me like you were in a very unorganized Pop Warner league.

In Philly (Liberty PW), we probably have our same share of issues that most leagues do, but the competition is very good (in D1 and most of D2), bye weeks are almost non-existent and the games run close to schedule (might be 30-45 minutes behind at the end of a day of 6 games if teams or refs ran late at some point).

I'm sure all of the things you mentioned are experienced by poeple in independent leagues, AYF and other PW leagues as well. I'm sure you know that, but just wanted to put it out there for those who may not and who would take your experience and apply it to local Pop Warner leagues overall.




Quote:
Originally posted by mrdeadeye
Just to clarify the stacking teams/recruiting in PW....last year my Team Played in PW....every effort was definitely made to stack teams in pretty much everything but especially D1...

As for recruiting...i don't know for certain but there have been lots of rumors of certain teams that will "run off" kids who are not good enough.

MY PW observations from my limited experience...

1. Very unorganized(games rarely started on time usually an hour late, teams would have 2 byes in a season while others in their division had none), they made up rules as they went along(running clock for MM's)...

2. The competition level on the average was not that impressive...although there were stacked teams that did very well..as stacked teams tend to do....the level of coaching was not impressive at all...there were a couple towns that seemed to have their stuff together...the rest seemed to rely on "give the ball to the fast kid around the end"....

3. MPR's were not enforced at all during the regular season...we played a team that had 8 kids not even get in the game...I mentioned it to the other teams coach...and he said "so f'n" what....

4. They will let anyone in...there were teams that didn't even have a field to play on....and others that had fields that didn't have goal posts...one time we had a team with a broken bathroom scale to weigh in.

5. Teams with the most older/lighters tend to win disproportionately more.

PW here is actually a pretty small fish...there are other leagues around that have alot more teams...but they are making some good steps.


TW
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 03:37 PM Reply With Quote


Bud,
No problem at all...you are correct these are local issues.......

the point that I meant to make was that there is stacking and that it is not nearly as popular in IL as one would think it is.

Sorry if I seemed like I was PW bashing....I was just giving my experiences...

TW




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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 03:44 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by seeindouble
Matt, how's the competition in Polk County. I remember living their for a few years, and the quality of athletes there was unreal.


I haven't played any teams from that area, they travel west to play the Tampa/Lakeland leagues. We stay in Orlando or go east to play the teams on the coast.

I do know of several HS programs out that way who are perennial powerhouses and the Pop Warner teams that get into the regional playoffs are always stocked full of athletes.




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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 03:47 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by mrdeadeye
Just to clarify the stacking teams/recruiting in PW....last year my Team Played in PW....every effort was definitely made to stack teams in pretty much everything but especially D1...

As for recruiting...i don't know for certain but there have been lots of rumors of certain teams that will "run off" kids who are not good enough.

MY PW observations from my limited experience...

1. Very unorganized(games rarely started on time usually an hour late, teams would have 2 byes in a season while others in their division had none), they made up rules as they went along(running clock for MM's)...

2. The competition level on the average was not that impressive...although there were stacked teams that did very well..as stacked teams tend to do....the level of coaching was not impressive at all...there were a couple towns that seemed to have their stuff together...the rest seemed to rely on "give the ball to the fast kid around the end"....

3. MPR's were not enforced at all during the regular season...we played a team that had 8 kids not even get in the game...I mentioned it to the other teams coach...and he said "so f'n" what....

4. They will let anyone in...there were teams that didn't even have a field to play on....and others that had fields that didn't have goal posts...one time we had a team with a broken bathroom scale to weigh in.

5. Teams with the most older/lighters tend to win disproportionately more.

PW here is actually a pretty small fish...there are other leagues around that have alot more teams...but they are making some good steps.


TW


Ya thats pretty bad but like you said its probably just because Pop Warner in that area is just getting its feet set.

What you describe is what the leagues other than Pop Warner, such as CFYL, look like around here.




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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 04:02 PM Reply With Quote


The independents in Denver Metro are so strong; PW fails every time they try to get a foot in the door.

Never heard of any AYF leagues around here.

A little competition amongst leagues couldn’t hurt either but the independents are well organized for the most part. There are basically 3 very large leagues that cover about 2M people with each league carving out their section of the city to play in. MS sports are pretty much a private school thing anymore but a few cities still offer some MS sports.

What may start happening is the HS programs dropping freshmen football so the independents will have to take on that too.

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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 04:49 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
DP,

I see what you are saying. But dont most O/L kids being they are small for their age and see (parents see) the chance for them to play alot and maybe even dominate as well as play more games with kids they have already played with, lead them to decide to play another year of PW? Seems logical.


Yes, exactly! And I wish they would use logic when deciding whether their 100 lb. 12-year-old should be playing at middle school against kids more than twice their weight. A couple of years ago, a kid who was a "star" RB for our Jr. PeeWees decided he'd rather play for the middle school than play for our PeeWees. Kid was solidly put together and well-built but he was short. He could have been a stand-out for us but instead chose to alternate between Nose Tackle and the bench for his middle school.

--DP
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 04:57 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by seeindouble
Quote:
Originally posted by CoachMattC
Only had one home schooled kid on my team this year, but its not out of the norm. I know of a couple more in our association but far and away more private school kids.

Matt, how's the competition in Polk County. I remember living their for a few years, and the quality of athletes there was unreal.


Really strong, though the teams we've played haven't been the best coached I know there are also soem strong youth programs there. Lakeland HS is a perrenial powerhouse and I believe was ranked in the top 10 nationally before losing in the playoffs to Plant High.
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 06:59 PM Reply With Quote


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Originally posted by RODNREEK
Yeah I think that with middle school football the size of your city also has alot to do with the numbers and quality of kids you get to come out. Here in charlotte, the Jr.midget level isnt affected as much as the other areas in NC that has PW as they also have middle school football. I was suprised to see some associations field more than one team at that age. My hometown area doesn't have Middle school football so thats why teams like the Oak Ridge Colts have seemed to thrive at the older age levels....But being my first year with AYF, I think it may be an excellent idea for the midget kids to have an unlimited weight system. No one(to my knowledge) uses the the Jr.Bantam/Bantam weight schematics and Im not sure if anyone who makes the descisions has done any research on the size of the 7th-9th grade kids now a days. I think it would help increase numbers of those leagues who have to compete with school ball and actually would bring them a little more notoriety. If not unlimited atleast 200lbs.


FYI

The unlimited play of the AYF teams in Orlando wasnt nearly as sharp as the age/weight divisions IMO

I realize it is fairly new, just my observation

DC
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[*] posted on 12-16-2009 at 08:00 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by davecisar
Quote:
Originally posted by RODNREEK
Yeah I think that with middle school football the size of your city also has alot to do with the numbers and quality of kids you get to come out. Here in charlotte, the Jr.midget level isnt affected as much as the other areas in NC that has PW as they also have middle school football. I was suprised to see some associations field more than one team at that age. My hometown area doesn't have Middle school football so thats why teams like the Oak Ridge Colts have seemed to thrive at the older age levels....But being my first year with AYF, I think it may be an excellent idea for the midget kids to have an unlimited weight system. No one(to my knowledge) uses the the Jr.Bantam/Bantam weight schematics and Im not sure if anyone who makes the descisions has done any research on the size of the 7th-9th grade kids now a days. I think it would help increase numbers of those leagues who have to compete with school ball and actually would bring them a little more notoriety. If not unlimited atleast 200lbs.


FYI

The unlimited play of the AYF teams in Orlando wasnt nearly as sharp as the age/weight divisions IMO

I realize it is fairly new, just my observation

DC


Oh I agree, I was speaking of the older kids. I mean a 160 weight max isnt nearly fair or realistic for kids who are getting ready to enter HS. Im really not with unlimited at younger ages but PW can increase the weights to a cap that may include the majority of kids who atempt to play.

Jr.pw 120,pw 145, jr md 170

its a thought




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[*] posted on 12-17-2009 at 02:38 AM Reply With Quote


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Originally posted by CoachMattC
Quote:
Originally posted by mrdeadeye
Just to clarify the stacking teams/recruiting in PW....last year my Team Played in PW....every effort was definitely made to stack teams in pretty much everything but especially D1...

As for recruiting...i don't know for certain but there have been lots of rumors of certain teams that will "run off" kids who are not good enough.

MY PW observations from my limited experience...

1. Very unorganized(games rarely started on time usually an hour late, teams would have 2 byes in a season while others in their division had none), they made up rules as they went along(running clock for MM's)...

2. The competition level on the average was not that impressive...although there were stacked teams that did very well..as stacked teams tend to do....the level of coaching was not impressive at all...there were a couple towns that seemed to have their stuff together...the rest seemed to rely on "give the ball to the fast kid around the end"....

3. MPR's were not enforced at all during the regular season...we played a team that had 8 kids not even get in the game...I mentioned it to the other teams coach...and he said "so f'n" what....

4. They will let anyone in...there were teams that didn't even have a field to play on....and others that had fields that didn't have goal posts...one time we had a team with a broken bathroom scale to weigh in.

5. Teams with the most older/lighters tend to win disproportionately more.

PW here is actually a pretty small fish...there are other leagues around that have alot more teams...but they are making some good steps.


TW


Ya thats pretty bad but like you said its probably just because Pop Warner in that area is just getting its feet set.

What you describe is what the leagues other than Pop Warner, such as CFYL, look like around here.


The Pop Warner Conference out here has been around for at least 20 years..the league I used to be in Won a couple National Championships there in the 90's (see elgin chiefs and elgin steelers)....but got kicked out long before I got there....we went back last year and it was horrible...but then again I left that league altogether...it does sound like pop warner in other areas of the country has its stuff together.

There are a couple other leagues around here that are messed up too...no doubt about that.




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[*] posted on 12-17-2009 at 07:30 AM Reply With Quote


Back on Topic, I won't whine about thread going sideways, it happens, no worries-

Other observations from the Pop Warner and AYF National Championships:

Kickoffs:
I didnt take notes or stats on this one, will just have to go on memory.
About 10% of the kicks were deep kicks- most of these were directional- not right down the middle.
About 50% of the kicks were "second row" onside bloop type kicks with the kicking team having a set strategy most of the time, recovery grouping in place/set play
About 40% of the kicks were first row onside kicks, about 90% of these were on the gound, but 10% blooped a high timing kick to the first row- very effective as well

About 15% of the first row kicks were recovered by the kicking team
About 10% of the second row kicks were recovered by the kicking team
None of the onside kicks were returned for scores and the average field position:
First row kicks- 45- 50 yard line
Second row kicks 40- 45 yard line
Deep kicks- 30-40 yard line
Only 2 deep kicks were returned for scores
Only 1 deep kick made it into the end zone
About 10% of the deep kicks made it inside the 10
Best onside kicking team:AYF JPW Oak Ridge CAL- broke tight 14-6 game with Spirit of Faith wide open with back to back onside kick recoveries in second half of close game. Perfect first row grounder to high bounce tech, SOF couldnt have done anything different and got the ball, just perfect execution. 1 player designed to take out the player closest to the ball, 3 other kids right there to recover, very aggressive.

Saw just 1 team mob up bunched by the kicker- didnt work
and maybe 10% of the first row kicks, the KO team bunched everyone to 1 side- didnt seem to have a correlation on effectiveness.

Not suggestion one method over another- just observations from watching about 30 teams in the tournaments.
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[*] posted on 12-17-2009 at 07:24 PM Reply With Quote


Dave C, I was wondering if you got a chance to watch any of the NJ Giants DII Jr Midget team. Met some of them at a Hotel in Syracuse. I read that they won vs Santa Cruz Seahauks 20-14 and then beat West Lynn Rams of MA 26-8
? did you get any details...X and O's and anything that seemed to stand out? I got the impression that they did not have great athletes but good coaching and a workman like attitude.




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[*] posted on 12-17-2009 at 08:06 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by CoachDP
Quote:


DP's Age/Grade Chart in NC (lol)


Hey Dave--I have a considerable amount of NC HS footage. Like to study some good teams. ;) Just curious, is the hotbed of talent east of 95?

Also, how does the HS preseason/season work, it seems like you guys play forever down there... Will you be doing any type of summer camp?




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[*] posted on 12-17-2009 at 08:24 PM Reply With Quote


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Just curious, is the hotbed of talent east of 95?

--In North Carolina, the high school talent is in Charlotte.

Also, how does the HS preseason/season work, it seems like you guys play forever down there... Will you be doing any type of summer camp?

--I have no idea what the NCHSAA rules are. Once we're a member, we;ll know what we can and can'd do. We hope to do some 7 on 7 camps in the spring.

--Dave

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[*] posted on 12-17-2009 at 08:43 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:

--In North Carolina, the high school talent is in Charlotte.


Would not have though of that. I have footage of a HS team coached by Donnie Kerr (I think), really impressive.

Quote:
Also, how does the HS preseason/season work, it seems like you guys play forever down there... Will you be doing any type of summer camp?

--I have no idea what the NCHSAA rules are. Once we're a member, we;ll know what we can and can'd do. We hope to do some 7 on 7 camps in the spring.


I thought you guys had spring ball? Anyways, good luck next fall w/ HS kids.

BTW, you should look up Doc Ward at East Columbus. Good man.




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[*] posted on 12-17-2009 at 08:55 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by Majortom
Dave C, I was wondering if you got a chance to watch any of the NJ Giants DII Jr Midget team. Met some of them at a Hotel in Syracuse. I read that they won vs Santa Cruz Seahauks 20-14 and then beat West Lynn Rams of MA 26-8
? did you get any details...X and O's and anything that seemed to stand out? I got the impression that they did not have great athletes but good coaching and a workman like attitude.


No I didnt get that game
I spent half my time at the AYF National Championships and couldnt get to all the games on either
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[*] posted on 12-17-2009 at 09:02 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by JB

I thought you guys had spring ball? Anyways, good luck next fall w/ HS kids.

--Last year, we did a lot of practice in the spring but we weren't a part of any league or association, so we just did whatever we wanted to do.

BTW, you should look up Doc Ward at East Columbus. Good man.

--Absolutely.

--Dave
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[*] posted on 12-18-2009 at 01:25 PM Reply With Quote


This is what I saw on offense from the 15 games I got to see at the Pop Warner and AYF National Championships. I didn’t see 30 different teams after thinking it over, as I saw several teams play twice. I got to watch 13 complete games and good parts of 2 others. I picked the game kind of randomly, tried to follow some of the teams running my stuff. Trying to catch a few games at every age group and trying go to games the organizers said would be interesting. I didnt purposely exclude 1 style of play or team etc, it was pretty darn random. So this is not scientific by ANY stretch of the imagination.


On offense I saw:

2 Double Wing teams 1 of which spread it out some when they got behind
3 Wishbone teams, Double Tight, Tight splits, not option teams, 1 spread it out about 1/3 of the time to throw (Oak Grove CA JPW AYF pretty darn good WB team)
4 Single Wing teams, 3 were SW all the time running my stuff right out of the book, with about 1/3 of those snaps being jet snaps, 1 SW team also spread it out to pass and ran some DT DW plays as well
2 Spread teams, 1 was spread to run (Stafford VA AYF Cadet team, very good) the other spread to pass
1 DT T formation team
3 Power "I" teams (Jr Midget DI champs Pop Warner, very good)
11 “I” Formation teams, they may have done a little of something else, but were in the base “I” wing, slot etc at least 85-90% of the time
3 Multiple teams- They were in nothing for more than 30% of their games, most of them were in “I” or Power “I” then went spread and then something else on top of it.
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[*] posted on 12-18-2009 at 02:08 PM Reply With Quote


Ok, I am going to chime in on a few things about NC football. First, the Oak Ridge Colts are in an area that has middle school football. Secondly, the Charlotte area dominates the 4-A class possibly because of their loose transfer rules policies. Thirdly, check out my formere HS the Reidsville Rams at the 2-A level. They have the most state championships, 18, and have won like 48 straight! The smaller cities dominate the 1-A & 2-A because they only have one high school and they kids play together from ages 6up. The spring workouts in my area start after the spring sports season ends. I know that rising freshmen in my area can't start workouts until their 8th grade year is complete. Practice can officially start Aug. 1 and I know a few teams that kickoff practice at 12:01am.
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