Author Topic: Developing Coaches  (Read 82536 times)

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Online davecisar

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #270 on: November 24, 2016, 12:45:45 PM »
Joe, not taking this personally. Just responding. I certainly agree with you that sitting under a good coach is the best way to learn. However, to me, it's not as easy in youth ball. The biggest difference that I see  between being a HS coach and a youth coach is that most youth coaches like myself work 40+ hours a week. They don't have the time or the resources to be jetting all over the place to try to become a better coach, even if they wanted to. Most high schools that I know of in my area pay for their coaches to attend clinics, etc. It's in their budget. For the youth coach, it's coming out of their own pocket. Everything I have in the way of books and DVDs comes out of my own pocket. Additionally, most youth coaches probably only coach 2-3 years until their son moves to higher levels. When the son moves on, dad is done coaching. Given that, most dads are not going to make the kinds of investment necessary to become a good coach. Coaching youth and HS are two different worlds. It's real easy to tell someone that they should visit other programs when you have a school footing the bill. However, the average dad can't afford to take time off from work to go somewhere on a whim to learn all the fine details of coaching. So at least in my case, I study as much as I can and visit forums like this with the hope that I can pick up little nuggets here and there to increase my knowledge and understanding. Is it the ideal way to learn? Probably not. But for some of us, it's our best option.

Stipends- are tiny
No one outside of Texas High School head coaches are getting rich coaching
Most of the HS coaches I know dont coach for the money and the money is nothing
ALl their coaching materials- they own and paid for themselves

Youth coaches attend Glazier clinics free of charge- costs you nothing
If you dont have money NIke will scholarship you into their clinics as well as long as you agree to help- work
Costs me nothing to watch others practice
Costs me the price of a meal to get one on one with another good coach and get some details- in Feb- March
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #271 on: November 24, 2016, 01:00:43 PM »
I am often criticized or condemned because of things I am asking about or trying to understand.

--Don't take it that way.  I have been on both sides of this: asking questions and using approaches that were questioned and/or criticized.  As well as rattling the cages of several coaches for their questions and approach.  But if you want to learn and be the best you can be, you don't let others' replies or responses discourage you from one thing:  being the best coach that you can be.

However, I can tell you this, I am just as passionate about coaching and I study EVERY day to try to be a better coach.

--Which is probably the most important component of a great coach.

--Dave

« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 01:30:25 PM by CoachDP »
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #272 on: November 24, 2016, 01:28:06 PM »
However, to me, it's not as easy in youth ball.

--Nothing is as easy in youth ball, except perhaps most of the competition.

The biggest difference that I see between being a HS coach and a youth coach is that most youth coaches like myself work 40+ hours a week.

--The biggest difference that I see is how important they regard learning.  Back in 2000, I headed to my first clinic.  There was no youth content and almost every speaker was a college coach and there were no other youth coaches in attendance.  How do I know?  Because in some clinics the speakers asked us to say where we coached.  And everyone was required to wear a name badge with their high school's name on it.  I saw no youth orgs.  I was working a 40-hour week job.  I had no one paying for my gasoline or hotel room or clinic fee.  That came from my pocket.  I just wanted to learn and was willing to travel and pay for the opportunity to do so.  With No Guarantees that any of this info would be understandable or usable to me.

They don't have the time or the resources to be jetting all over the place to try to become a better coach, even if they wanted to.

--I don't feel sorry for them.  I flew to Nevada, flew to Texas, drove to Louisiana, drove to Florida, Washington, Baltimore, Richmond on my dime, on my time.  As a youth coach.  Working a 40-hour per week job.  I wanted to get better.

Most high schools that I know of in my area pay for their coaches to attend clinics, etc. It's in their budget.

--Yes, you're right.  But they aren't paying for my gasoline, hotel room or food.  But the clinic?  Yes, they'll handle that.  Just like the Glazier handles yours.

For the youth coach, it's coming out of their own pocket. Everything I have in the way of books and DVDs comes out of my own pocket.

--I've been coaching high school football for the past seven years.  And every year, the books and DVDs came out of my own pocket.

Additionally, most youth coaches probably only coach 2-3 years until their son moves to higher levels. When the son moves on, dad is done coaching.

--Which is a two-fold problem:  1) Their motivation for being there is tied to their child.  Hardly enough motivation to be really good at this.  2) They aren't around long enough to get really good at this.

Given that, most dads are not going to make the kinds of investment necessary to become a good coach.

--Yes, agreed.

Coaching youth and HS are two different worlds. It's real easy to tell someone that they should visit other programs when you have a school footing the bill.

--As a youth coach, I attended the football practices of NC State, UNC, Duke and NCCU.  They were free.  I found out when/if they offered coaching clinics and whether they were open to youth coaches and if there was a cost.  I made phone calls.  I talked to people.

However, the average dad can't afford to take time off from work to go somewhere on a whim to learn all the fine details of coaching.

--You don't do this on a whim.  You ask a school if you can attend.  You find out what their practice schedule is.  And you see what days don't conflict with your own schedule.  Plenty of colleges practice on Saturdays in the spring.

I study as much as I can and visit forums like this with the hope that I can pick up little nuggets here and there to increase my knowledge and understanding. Is it the ideal way to learn? Probably not. But for some of us, it's our best option.

--I doubt it's your best option.  But I have no doubt that you think it is.

--Dave
www.Compassion.com: Releasing Children from Poverty in Jesus' Name

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #273 on: November 24, 2016, 01:37:19 PM »
Stipends- are tinyI made more at the Private School, the stipend barely covers a week.
No one outside of Texas High School head coaches are getting rich coachingGeorgia gets paid very well!
Most of the HS coaches I know dont coach for the money and the money is nothing
ALl their coaching materials- they own and paid for themselvesNo expense account here!

Youth coaches attend Glazier clinics free of charge- costs you nothing
If you dont have money NIke will scholarship you into their clinics as well as long as you agree to help- work
Costs me nothing to watch others practice
Costs me the price of a meal to get one on one with another good coach and get some details- in Feb- March
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh

Online Michael

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #274 on: November 24, 2016, 01:40:10 PM »
If the 98 percent of people who only think they're doing the best they can would join the 2 percent of people who are actually doing the best they can, the world would be a hell of a lot more productive.
“If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #275 on: November 24, 2016, 02:12:41 PM »
Before I met or knew my good friend Dave Cisar, I went to see him speak. He coached youth, I coached HS, he coached UBSW, I coached Spread.  Why would I go see him speak? I learned more watching him for 3 sessions than I have from some college coaches. His approach to organization is unparalleled. The way he presents is totally engaging. I took many notes.

Since I have been fortunate to present with & watch DC several times. I always come away with something. We have also spent time together whether at my home or his. I know this made me a better coach.

My advice to young coaches is there is always a way to learn or get better. Make relationships with coaches it is the best resource you can find.

Joe
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #276 on: November 24, 2016, 02:33:20 PM »
Before I met or knew my good friend Dave Cisar, I went to see him speak. He coached youth, I coached HS, he coached UBSW, I coached Spread.  Why would I go see him speak? I learned more watching him for 3 sessions than I have from some college coaches. His approach to organization is unparalleled. The way he presents is totally engaging. I took many notes.

I've never run Dave's Single Wing.  But I've gone to hear him speak on two separate occasions.  On the first trip, I drove to Florida.  On the second, he came here.  Before that, we'd met in Orlando at the PW national championships.  We had lunch and he brought a note pad...
Regardless, don't overlook opportunity.

--Dave
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 02:35:28 PM by CoachDP »
www.Compassion.com: Releasing Children from Poverty in Jesus' Name

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #277 on: November 24, 2016, 02:36:51 PM »
DP

When DC came to watch us play we went for lunch afterwards. We went to a barbecue joint & started drawing on paper plates. We still laugh at how the coaching & learning never ends.

Joe
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 04:42:22 PM by MHcoach »
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh

Offline Test Account

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #278 on: November 24, 2016, 04:03:26 PM »
If the 98 percent of people who only think they're doing the best they can would join the 2 percent of people who are actually doing the best they can, the world would be a hell of a lot more productive.
LOL! Thank you. There is a reason for the 2 pct. rule.
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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #279 on: November 25, 2016, 12:19:39 AM »
Its all out of Pocket! Add up just the cost of your time for the hours you spend with the kids!

Coaching is not about reward and recognition. Those are all By Products of the journey! 

I cannot tell you how much I have gathered in written and video materials over the years.  Most bought some downloaded for free.  In my area there are several Coaches Meet and Greets "Clinics" within an hours drive.  I, personally, dont go to a Glazier clinic with a myopic agenda! I seek those who run contrarian materials.  I seek NUGGETS of information from all! 

I think you are incorrect in the assumption that forums, like this, are not worthy sources of knowledge!   

Yes, there are trolls in almost all forums.  However.  DC, IMHO, is a treasure trough of Debate and Quality information.  It goes back to a person seeking affirmation as opposed to knowledge.  Clark, Dave C, Joe, Dave P,  Paul M,  Jack G, and Bill M among others   Say what you wish these guys were willing and able to share their knowledge of the game. NO!  You dont have to agree in Lock Step. You just have to grasp a concept and tweak it to fit your own. 

Its called learning!   Then its what can you teach?   Honestly, at the youth level there is indeed a thing called TMI!  Better yet, TME.

Adults tend to put too much "High Level" expectations on young kids.  That's our fault! I haven't had a Joe Montana,  Walter Payton, add Hall Of Fame name here, at 10 years old.  Shame on us if you put those expectations on kids!  There is pushing to get the most out of each one, and there is Stupidity.

 ;)     




Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #280 on: November 25, 2016, 11:43:37 AM »
S

I really don't think it's TMI, simply the wrong information. I see youth coaches worrying about how to identify coverages, yet their offense can't line up properly. 3 point stances are horrible, firing off the ball never happens. Yet we never see a post to discuss these things.

Joe
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #281 on: November 25, 2016, 12:01:41 PM »
I see youth coaches worrying about how to identify coverages, yet their offense can't line up properly.

I call this "Art Vandelay Coaching."  They don't want to be a football coach (thus, the disarray of their offensive line).  They want to pretend to be a football coach and would wather "identify" coverages.

--Dave
www.Compassion.com: Releasing Children from Poverty in Jesus' Name

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #282 on: November 25, 2016, 12:05:31 PM »
DP

Vandalay Industries called,they want their whistle back! Cosmo will come to pick it up.

Joe
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh

Online davecisar

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #283 on: November 25, 2016, 01:12:42 PM »
I call this "Art Vandelay Coaching."  They don't want to be a football coach (thus, the disarray of their offensive line).  They want to pretend to be a football coach and would wather "identify" coverages.

--Dave

And you wanted to be my latex salesman ;D
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #284 on: November 25, 2016, 03:39:23 PM »
When I was in Charlotte my coaches would come to my house at least once a month during the off season. Even the Daddy coaches wanted to learn. When I first returned to Florida the AYF commissioner played his games on the Private school's field. He recognized me from the AYF Nationals. I had watched his teams get beat like a drum, he had watched my teams. I offered to do a free clinic at the Private school for his coaches. His response was "oh we don't need a clinic, we just need players".

Over the last few years I have seen coaches at the Youth level here in Florida who shouldn't be coaching. It all seems to be about how they can get players not what to do with them.

Joe
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh