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Author Topic: Developing Coaches  (Read 91966 times)

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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #390 on: November 27, 2016, 02:46:53 PM »
So here is my take, If you don't have the geek, the social does not matter. Almost every coaching staff in the park I volunteer is social. I do not understand why developing people who have zero interest in getting better is relevant. You are better off coaching it yourself and getting parents to serve as supplement.If you able to coach a team by yourself & be successful; then more power to you. Personally, I am not a good enough coach to do it all myself.
As to who, it must be important. You have asked 4 times who I am either directly or indirectly about my identity. I don't trust actual family much, much less people who I have little to no interaction with on a personal level. Then you add what a mine field called the internet? Chances are my identity stays as it is. I do not care who you think I am. I have long since realized that nothing I have is forever and I live that way.Important, no. Curious, of course.


Either way, IMHO you need at least 3 true coaches in order to be successful. I believe I mention this somewhere else in this thread. Now, I also believe in only practicing twice a week at the Youth level. That could also play into needing at least a couple of other coaches.

Joe
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #391 on: November 27, 2016, 02:53:12 PM »


Either way, IMHO you need at least 3 true coaches in order to be successful. I believe I mention this somewhere else in this thread. Now, I also believe in only practicing twice a week at the Youth level. That could also play into needing at least a couple of other coaches.

Joe

Is it about being good enough or what is best for everybody involved. You think it sends the right message to kids that you are carrying dead weight? How do you talk to kids about being a team player, giving their all? When clearly there are men on the field who do not have interest in actually doing anything other than shooting the breeze. I am asking the question. I have never justified in my own mind those coaches.
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #392 on: November 27, 2016, 03:01:12 PM »
That is the best advise I have ever heard on this Forum.

Everything you do should be designed to beat that one team you can never seem to beat.

Ive said that 100s of times- right here on this forum

The goal is maxing out your talent equation
Then putting together your team- not to survive or come close- but designed from day 1 to win it all- beat the best team
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline davecisar

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #393 on: November 27, 2016, 03:07:53 PM »
Dave

Im sure many things are commonplace League to League. I was talking more about things I never knew much about until about 2000. Basically everything PW.

Older Lighters

The dreaded weight matrix

Leagues that allowed rosters with 3 year swings age wise....

I remember getting Clarks DC46 in 2002 or so and it had one GINORMOUS hole in it.....that would only work in a PW format.

CB's posting up TE's. As you well know that will never work in unlimited weight. Clark had written his excellent manual for what he knew....PW. Then he started providing it to the masses and hello unlimited weight leagues. He helped me work it our for unlimited weight.

Then there are all the mandates and unique rules that exist....silly.

Stuff like that. I thought everyone was the same. Not even close.

Everyone has MUCH more in common than they dont

My personal experience- dealing with 1000s of coaches face to face, hands on all across the country
When they say they are in a unique situation- they rarely if ever are
That same conversation Ive had with dozens of guys

Weighted, unweighted, older lighters, no talent, lots of talent, bully team etc etc etc
Its the same 4-5 stories 100s of times over
For me personally- coached in all those type of leagues and most of the situations as well
This isnt rocket science and no one is in a truely unique "landing on Jupiter" situation

It does make some people feel better though- to think they are living in the ultra unique unsolvable equation world- when they dont do well
Human nature
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline Michael

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #394 on: November 27, 2016, 03:16:55 PM »
Most of the bad coaches I've seen always seem to assume that it's the stuff they can't control that's killing them, even though they're horrible at the stuff they can control.
“If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein

Offline COACH JC

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #395 on: November 27, 2016, 03:22:25 PM »
Is it about being good enough or what is best for everybody involved. You think it sends the right message to kids that you are carrying dead weight? How do you talk to kids about being a team player, giving their all? When clearly there are men on the field who do not have interest in actually doing anything other than shooting the breeze. I am asking the question. I have never justified in my own mind those coaches.


I mean, that's the whole point in being a leader. Why in the world would coaches be shooting the breeze in practice unless you've allowed it?
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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #396 on: November 27, 2016, 03:22:49 PM »
007

You touch on a very salient point. When I was younger I believed as you do, bad coaches needed to be exposed & purged. This caused one of the worst moments in my coaching career, looking back now I can see what a fool I was.

I was the OC for a HS team. The DC wasn't a very good coach. I made it my personal mission to expose what an idiot he was. Everyday at practice I would absolutely torch the defense. In coaches meetings I would openly ridicule him for knowing nothing. Not only was this divisive, but it was a cancer to the team. My ego & arrogance were in no way conducive to helping the team. At the time I couldn't see it, I was blinded by what I knew & what he didn't. His refusal to learn anything was even more frustrating. 

At the time I was blinded by my own arrogance. I didn't realize what I had done until a few years later. I met one of the other coaches & we sat down to talk. He reminded me of things I had done. He wasn't knocking me just relating things in a humorous way. It made me pause & reflect. I now realize I handled it all wrong.

Last season I suffered through my only losing season after 41 years. Offensively we could score on the best teams in the state. Defensively we couldn't stop a freshman team. I did not repeat my mistake, I worked very hard at not being divisive. Of course me being me that doesn't mean I didn't speak my mind. I just made sure to never do it in front of the team. I also never attacked any defenses coaches personally.

There has already been major changes on the defensive side of the ball.

Point being, part of being a good coach is doing what's best for the team. You can only control what you can control. As a HC there times  I had to step in when poor AC's weren't doing what was best for the team. At that point I gave those AC's a chance, either get with the program or hold a clip board.

Joe
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #397 on: November 27, 2016, 03:24:30 PM »


I mean, that's the whole point in being a leader. Why in the world would coaches be shooting the breeze in practice unless you've allowed it?
Why would you allow coaches to be coaches whom have to be dragged kicked screaming to get better?
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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #398 on: November 27, 2016, 03:32:45 PM »
007

You touch on a very salient point. When I was younger I believed as you do, bad coaches needed to be exposed & purged. This caused one of the worst moments in my coaching career, looking back now I can see what a fool I was.

I was the OC for a HS team. The DC wasn't a very good coach. I made it my personal mission to expose what an idiot he was. Everyday at practice I would absolutely torch the defense. In coaches meetings I would openly ridicule him for knowing nothing. Not only was this divisive, but it was a cancer to the team. My ego & arrogance were in no way conducive to helping the team. At the time I couldn't see it, I was blinded by what I knew & what he didn't. His refusal to learn anything was even more frustrating. 

At the time I was blinded by my own arrogance. I didn't realize what I had done until a few years later. I met one of the other coaches & we sat down to talk. He reminded me of things I had done. He wasn't knocking me just relating things in a humorous way. It made me pause & reflect. I now realize I handled it all wrong.

Last season I suffered through my only losing season after 41 years. Offensively we could score on the best teams in the state. Defensively we couldn't stop a freshman team. I did not repeat my mistake, I worked very hard at not being divisive. Of course me being me that doesn't mean I didn't speak my mind. I just made sure to never do it in front of the team. I also never attacked any defenses coaches personally.

There has already been major changes on the defensive side of the ball.

Point being, part of being a good coach is doing what's best for the team. You can only control what you can control. As a HC there times  I had to step in when poor AC's weren't doing what was best for the team. At that point I gave those AC's a chance, either get with the program or hold a clip board.

Joe

it isn't about purging or exposing people. That is far more work than its worth. This isn't about show trials. It is not about any of that. It is more about waiting for people who show an enthusiasm for the game of football, who actually want to go to clinics, who do not mind meeting to chat about previous games, seasons, strategies, or future such. It is too much work to run people off, Too many headaches, too many enemies.  It seems silly to be willing to try and develop coach who otherwise do not exhibit any willingness to get better.
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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #399 on: November 27, 2016, 03:39:14 PM »
it isn't about purging or exposing people. That is far more work than its worth. This isn't about show trials. It is not about any of that. It is more about waiting for people who show an enthusiasm for the game of football, who actually want to go to clinics, who do not mind meeting to chat about previous games, seasons, strategies, or future such. It is too much work to run people off, Too many headaches, too many enemies.  It seems silly to be willing to try and develop coach who otherwise do not exhibit any willingness to get better.


007

If you try to develop a few, one or two will & some won't. If you make no effort than no one gets developed. The big thing is you will be able to see who does & who doesn't. If a man is willing to volunteer his time, & shows up to be there. I will find something he can do. Just like players I don't care what you can't do as much as I care what you can do.

Joe
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh

Offline davecisar

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #400 on: November 27, 2016, 04:23:07 PM »


007

If you try to develop a few, one or two will & some won't. If you make no effort than no one gets developed. The big thing is you will be able to see who does & who doesn't. If a man is willing to volunteer his time, & shows up to be there. I will find something he can do. Just like players I don't care what you can't do as much as I care what you can do.

Joe


ACs all have different skills and react differently to different HCs

Im taking anyone who can pass the background check, shows up consistently, isnt biased towards his son, is willing to follow the template
In real life we cant expect all ACs to be as committed as we are- not realistic
All of us will have guys with varying abilities and commitment levels
Its up to the HC to cobble together his staff to get the best out of that equation
Sure- motivate some to get better- attend clinics
Work side by side with them to show them how easy effectively  reaching and teaching kids CAN be- when done right
Assign them tasks commenserate with their abilities and commitment levels

The more coaching skills they have, the more responsibility they get
I can always use bag holders, cheer leaders and play counters.
I can always one task a weak coach- coaching the NTs or being my assistant-" here the drill we just did, keep doing that for the next 5 minutes while I go get something else started with this other position group"

One of he "one taskers" inherited from a previous staff in 2015 ended up being a great guy who now is a very good OL coach- he was on his own this season and did great. The only difference was- he was with me all of 2015 and he learned how easy it is to coach if you work progressions and set standards.
Everyone responds differently.
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline COACH JC

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #401 on: November 27, 2016, 04:26:45 PM »
Why would you allow coaches to be coaches whom have to be dragged kicked screaming to get better?

I'm not sure how this relates to my question?

I'm not the president of our ORG. We only decide who's on our staff. & we've had zero issue w/ bag holders & daddy ballers. We put em to work. If they're standing around doing nothing, i put that 100% on the person in charge of the team.
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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #402 on: November 27, 2016, 04:29:25 PM »
DC

I couldn't agree with you more. Do you remember my DC from MH? He started coaching at 20, I made him my DC at 21. He was coaching at one the top HS in NC at 22.

He was a blank slate who spent a lot of time drawing on the window with me.

Joe
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
Bill Walsh

Offline Vince148

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #403 on: November 27, 2016, 04:56:01 PM »
Coaching alone is extremely difficult as I found out for the first 3 weeks before I finally got a couple of dad ACs. And I only had 13 kids. I can't imagine how difficult it would be with 20+ kids.

The good news is that I already have 2 ACs for next season. One was the head coach for the lower level team. He literally found out the day before their first practice that he was going to be the HC. The other AC was one of his assistants. Both of their kids are moving up to my level next year.

The HC is a nice guy and we talked often during the season. I only really just met his AC at our banquet last week. The HC was constantly asking me about being one of my ACs during the season. The other fellow just asked me. It sounds as though he will be quite the help as he also coached some HS JV in the past. This will be the first time in my 7 years that I will actually know who my ACs are well ahead of the season which actually makes this thread important for me.

It would be a big help to learn how to get coaches on the same page especially when they ran some different schemes than I ran. Also, their coaching was much different than mine in that I never saw them do any blocking or tackling progressions. It was just basically hitting. So that would help me a lot.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Developing Coaches
« Reply #404 on: November 27, 2016, 05:06:08 PM »
Sucks that this thread has turned to shit. Sucks even more that anyone on here would even consider questioning Joe's intentions on this site. Imho Joe is the best football mind here and someone I consider a friend(we do know each other away from here). Joe is generous to a fault with his knowledge and time. If someone is too thin skinned to accept some honesty and constructive criticism then that is on them.

The criticism levied on this site is very different based on your experience level. A brand new dad coach is always welcomed and pointed in the right direction. Those that should know better tend to get blasted because, well, they should know better.

As far as trying to make others better, some guys don't know how or that they need to. Some don't care and have other reasons for being there. I have no time for the latter. The former group you can often help put guys on the right path. The guys DC mentioned, guys that are cool with bag holders and are happy and willing to do just that, they can always help in some way.