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Author Topic: ACE FORMATIONS  (Read 9779 times)

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Offline durfee4

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2014, 06:24:42 PM »
CoachOCD, Coach Cox has a spread series identicle to your post (COWBOY-spread series) look into it.Takes all the guess work out. ;)
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Offline CoachOCD

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2014, 12:51:26 PM »
no not really, the cowboy is doubles, I was with TE and a wing, is a even defense, and unless there is a talent differential it is very easy to defend, most are easy to defend, because most are run stupidly in youth football. = Very rarely causing any conflict of responsibility for any defender eg easy to defend...

motion creates unbalance, this I like, also opens up jet series, this I like
the Cowboy formation is just begging for read option and speed option, this I like

So if the cox cowboy has a jet series and option series then I would dig it! But from what I read it dont

Offline durfee4

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2014, 09:59:35 PM »
Coach i am saying you can make adjusyments to your set just by motioning players from,se,s doubles ,trips or even 5 wide,this offense is a base not a stone written.
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Offline CoachOCD

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2014, 01:27:56 PM »
in reading the description of ACE, I ran across coach cox saying something to the effect of "the idea is to hit the defense with a handful of plays in combo with a handful of formations, look for incorrect adjustments and exploit" and this is exactly my tactic, this and the quick set huddle. Cox uses nomenclature that I would not, I would prefer Clarks over cues as they are simplistic and self explanatory. In comparison most other O's including Cox's uses names the kids have to identify. So I aint knockin Cox, dont want to ruffle any feathers, but with the formation names of the Cox Ace or pistol cold you line up in the below formation? Not that you would want to or that it is good or bad, right now its just an example of 1 of a possible 20 formations. This formation is EVEN OVER (or 4 & 6 OVER), if you ID players with numbers, X & Z OVER if letters as below, or a name like CALIFORNIA if ID is name based (CA is big state and to the left) again the nomenclature dont matter, but I feel the Over cues offer a larger base to select from and more variety.
..................................................S
...............................S..
............C...........................L...........L............C
.......................L.....................................
.....................................E......T........T.....E.....this is a 4-3 adjusted to unbalance, yes? what would you change in this defense?
.........X..........................Y..O..O..C..O..O
..................S.........Z....................
...........................................H....Q

What do you all feel about me trying to keep my quick set huddle, but technically not having a huddle?
***semi -no huddle coupled with quick set***
1) all players with wrist coaches, unless you enjoy yelling
2) If the center moves to the ball as ref is placing it, the O line moves up and sets off of centers feet, the rest of the players loosely but quickly huddle behind the line the QB looks to sideline to get play call, he then turns to the players and calls the play.  The players all hustle/sprint to position, set feet, STOP MOVING!!!!! QB looks left QB looks right ....down set GO! Im trying to combine no huddle and the quick set, emphasis is on getting ball snapped within 4 seconds.



Do you all see an advantage in the quick set? Using above formation as an example, we would break the loose huddle, and within 4 seconds snap ball. The defense above is, as far as I know, adjusted about as well as one could hope, but in youth ball, the pressure of just a few seconds the defense is not going to look like this, they will still have players yelling and pushing eachother to get in position when the ball is snapped. With a good play selection we could hit them where they aint!

I like the thought behind Clarks formation changes - "over" cues. Some of these cues are subtle some not so. Some will trigger a response from defense, some should but dont, and some of these over-cues will send the defense running all over the place, we used to say "like a chinese fire drill" but I dont know what this means, Im sure now days its not PC, Im assuming its an intended implication of inevitable chaos.


And just to let you guys know, in case my posts seem to wander, as I noticed some have, I have to stop and start between phone calls, forgetting train of thought...its either that or trying to re read every freagin time! Prolly an hour of time or more just for this 1 post response..........DAMN WORK PHONES!!!! glad I got a job cant complain, but dont these people know football season is coming!!


work gotta go

OC
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 12:41:31 PM by CoachOCD »

Offline Coach Davis

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2014, 09:29:03 PM »
What do you all feel about me trying to keep my quick set huddle, but technically not having a huddle?
semi -no huddle coupled with quick set
1) all players with wrist coaches, unless you enjoy yelling
2) If the center moves to the ball as ref is placing it, the O line moves up and sets off of centers feet, the rest of the players loosely but quickly huddle behind the line the QB looks to sideline to get play call, he then turns to the players and calls the play.  The players all hustle/sprint to position, set feet, STOP MOVING!!!!! QB looks left QB looks right ....down set GO! Im trying to combine no huddle and the quick set, emphasis is on getting ball snapped within 4 seconds.


We did something similar to this last season and are looking to do more this season. We gave the boys 7 seconds from end of the play to line up correctly and snap the ball. We used the Auburn Hurry Up Drill (
Auburn practice: Hurry-up drill 3-27-13
) to work on it in practice. We would run first play from huddle and this was done as a progression. So, Progression 1 was single play all the way down the field. 2nd team O would run it back the other way. Progression 2 was scripted plays on wrist coaches. Progression 3 was mixed plays called in by OC as soon as ball was dead. Progression 4 was mixed plays and formations.  It worked out really well.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 04:21:09 AM by Coach Davis »
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Offline CoachOCD

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2014, 12:40:26 PM »
thats the no huddle, hurry up, 2 minute O all mixed in together, 7 seconds?  That would be very impressive if they could get ball snapped that fast in a game, I know the drill is intended to install hustle move move move, and would probably be closer to double that amount of time during a game. Still good practice for team.

I looked into the high pressure no huddle, hurry up offense. It was 15 seconds from snap to snap during a game, +/- given refs influence and defenders laying about. This was the best I found, and they were flying back to the LOS, forgot team but they had big color boards, hand signals...OUR STAFF CANT AGREE ON THE NEXT PLAY WITHIN 30 SECONDS, I DUNNO HOW THESE TEAMS DO IT!!!!!! Hey was it Oregon?

Coach Davis

My intent is not focused on getting back to LOS and snapping ball like the above hurry up. I believe in youth football this would lead to mistakes on the offenses side of ball. High pressure yes, certainly, but with limited practice time, the pressure would be a 2 way door. So I was looking for something that removes pressure from the offense but leaves the pressure for the defense. Needless to say this was a head scratcher.

What I came up with was the "quick set" huddle break. This could be practiced every play, I could start it during hell week, gaining 1 extra week of practice time with it. I had initially installed this with an offense that only had a couple of subtle formation changes. I quickly noticed the defenses had no reaction, consistently not reacting to "tackle over", every team. This got me thinking for the next season to use Clark Wilkins over calls, with several of my own added in, and changed to my nomenclature, because while I liked the concept of Clarks formation changes some of the verbiage didn't make sense and was unnecessary, so I added a couple of formations and changed a few names.

So now I can have 20 formations. Not that having this many formations is even a good thing. Many coaches would say " boy your just beggin for a headache aincha" and they aint wrong. Having to many formations without purpose is stupid, I would adapt the KISS theory as well. There has to be stratagem involved with this decision making, not just having more for the sake of having more, especially given that most offense name formations "I" "pro set" "slot" "shotgun" "T" "spread right / left" "wildcat" "goaline" etc etc etc at best your getting, what 4 to 6 formations and the kids all have to think for a second "which one is this again"? And if to many, mass chaos and confusion. With the "OVER" calls you can get 8 or so formations in less than 5 minutes prolly more"

But what if having this many formations could be installed in 1 practice? Now I know practice makes perfect, thus the more reps the better. But really if I had 11 kids and about 20 minutes I could install a good 20 formations, all the while practicing the quick set huddle break. Now this aint stupid no more, the over calls dont get reacted to most of the time, if they do its Mike yelling at the OLB who takes 2 steps over then looks confused. The more drastic not so subtle formation changes leave defense scrambling about when combined with quickset. I would say "try it once to see how it looks" but your O will look more clumsy than the D.

My main question is, right now, is to marry the 2 huddle systems together. So I would have "hurry up lite" and have the quick set combined together. As in my last post description found by the ***. I want to know opinions of the 2 combined.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 12:44:12 PM by CoachOCD »

Offline durfee4

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2014, 07:21:17 PM »
.

My main question is, right now, is to marry the 2 huddle systems together. So I would have "hurry up lite" and have the quick set combined together. As in my last post description found by the ***. I want to know opinions of the 2 combined.
Coach  if we can lets talk soon,I think I can shed some light on this question.PM your cell #, Rick
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Offline Coach Davis

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2014, 03:35:32 AM »
What I came up with was the "quick set" huddle break.

This is what we ended up going to in the games later in the season, still applied the 7 second rule that we had practiced. What makes the quick set tough, especially at youth level is the MPP Rules. We circumvented this by keeping our quick set huddle break but we had a 2nd unit with some of the MPP and had them at both T and TE and taught them to run Wedge blocking, almost exclusively. A couple of them could catch so we would throw them a bone every now and again, Pop Passes and such. But it worked out well for us. A lot of times we would start the game off running our "Wedge Team" and the kids loved being a part of something bigger than themselves.  And DCs all thought that that was our # 1 line. To the point where an opposing coach asked us if we he could have his kids come and play for us next season because the coaches they played for didn't understand the importance of the OL. I then let him know that those kids that were grating his starting D, were in fact 4 MPP. He was shocked!
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Offline CoachOCD

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2014, 02:33:07 PM »
coach

about 5 yrs ago my now 12 yr old was on the 7-8 year old team, that HC, wedge hater!,  insisted his son be QB, daddy baller, and that we run split back. Our better QB was now 2nd string, I was given all the 2nd string O. Do with as I saw fit, and it was a then horrible O line. The kids were 44 to 50 lbs in a 85 weight limit league. It took me 3 weeks of all wedge blocking, nothing but wedge,in the limited practice time HC allowed me with them. In the scrimmages the wedge looked bad, 1st week what to expect , right?

HC laughed and I quote ..." that hokey shit aint gonna work around here"

You probably already guessed where Im going with this....IT FREAGIN MOWED TEAMS DOWN!!!! The 2 key factors that influenced the outcome, up n beyond "wedge rocks" 1st) the kids were small, but they were aggressive, I called them "My little killerrrrsss" from the ole bugs bunny vulture cartoon...hey I thought it was funny! 2nd) most defense at this age have big slooow MPP D line men...the result we hit them they went backwards, over and over!

THE END RESULTS!

At seasons end starting offense had 14 TDs total (+/- 1 or 2 I'm old this was yrs ago)
2nd string "scrub O" as HC called them had 12 TDs

starting QB had a total of 2 rushing TDs, 0 passing. HC refused to install wedge with starting O
2nd string QB had 9 TDs all off of wedge and 1 passing TD, other 2 TDs were off of wedge but wedge was stopped cold and QB scrambled

The 2nd string O became better than 1st string in some games, I had 2 twins at guard that were 45 lbs but faster than chit! Once my HC saw the 2nd string QB running over a hundred yds a game...they only got their 10 plays and not a play more, sad but true.

Offline durfee4

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2014, 08:08:08 PM »
The O-Line is the engine of any offense,when it,s fine tuned it can win most races,if not all.
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Offline Coach Davis

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2014, 04:05:35 AM »
The 2nd string O became better than 1st string in some games, I had 2 twins at guard that were 45 lbs but faster than chit! Once my HC saw the 2nd string QB running over a hundred yds a game...they only got their 10 plays and not a play more, sad but true.

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Offline CoachOCD

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2014, 05:21:51 PM »
The HC refused to let me run wedge with the starting O, his son didnt know left / right and would butcher 1 out of 4 or 5 handoffs, couldnt pass, slow and basically clumsy with ball, he had a bobble the snap problem, couldnt find the handle etc etc

once this "2nd string" was on field for 10 plays, that was it, they got yanked, and they still scored almost as many TDs, were more consistant with 1st downs.  etc

OC

Offline Coach Davis

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2014, 12:24:22 PM »
...scored almost as many TDs, were more consistant with 1st downs.  etc

OC

This was our Wedge team in a nutshell. We would wear teams out and control the ball for entire quarters. Had a game where both starting backs and our best pulling G got hurt and so we went Jumbo backfield and Wedge team and took the last snap of 3rd quarter and closed out by having ball the entire 4th quarter, capped drive with a TD on last play. It was awesome and the smile on the kids faces couldn't be taken away. It was great to see them feel like they were a huge factor in the game. When, as we all know, most coaches don't want to be bothered with MPP. The kids know it too and  it is something they go through in every sport they play. Whether that is baseball where they get thrown out in Right Field, etc, etc. Football being the ultimate team sport allows them to not just play but to contribute and directly effect a teams success. This instills a great sense of pride and accomplishment, that they don't otherwise get to experience because all to often they are not being told how to be successful; they are simply being to not to do anything to "screw it up!" Football gives them the ability to learn so much about themselves. I LOVE this game!
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 03:11:43 AM by Coach Davis »
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Offline DKTurtle

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2016, 06:54:54 PM »
I bought the power pistol ace playbook with the intention of primarily using the "just ace" stuff. I was disappointed to see that only "ace rt" and "ace lt" packages were broken down. Has anyone run "just ace"? What series work well with it? Which ones don't?
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Offline Coach Big B

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Re: ACE FORMATIONS
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2016, 09:09:57 PM »
Good to see you back on the boards coach. :-) My 1st day back.
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