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Author Topic: OL and the DW  (Read 11217 times)

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Offline CoachMikeB1970

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2012, 11:53:05 AM »
Thanks coach for the info!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 12:00:29 PM by CoachMikeB1970 »

Offline spidermac

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2012, 12:12:19 PM »
Thanks coach for the info!

I like the post before the edit better...

I agree, most youth teams ignore the OLine to a greater degree...coaches who coach the DW better be spending a lot of time with their Oline or it won't work.

Teaching drive blocking...I do it, however...a boy who is physically overmatched will not be successful drive blocking...which is the whole point behind TKO, or at least what I thought...to give them a mechanical advantage, overmatched or not...we use drive blocking in practice as an aggression drill...yes we focus on technique while they are drive blocking (pad level, feet, biting the pit, bringing the hips, etc.) but...it is mainly for agression...
None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.

Offline CoachJJ

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2012, 05:34:12 PM »
That's not what our bar drill is.

OK, so dont leave me hanging ... what is the BAR DRILL and how does the height of the bar help keep kids low (I think that is what you said earlier) ???

I am always looking for new stuff to keep my linemen dominating the opposition ...
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Offline Michael

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2012, 05:37:19 PM »
OK, so dont leave me hanging ... what is the BAR DRILL and how does the height of the bar help keep kids low (I think that is what you said earlier) ???

I am always looking for new stuff to keep my linemen dominating the opposition ...


http://www.dumcoach.com/index.php/topic,4700.msg61768.html#msg61768

“If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein

Offline CoachJJ

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2012, 05:39:25 PM »
This ^

And if they are lucky...they'll find out in practice...

Luck has nothing to do with it ... that is why we coach my friend ... yes I know you know this and you were just pointing out the obvious ... I would have responded there directly but you already did ...

And I know for a fact that Coach Cox's kids arent learning low man techniques during games ... that is as much muscle memory as walking or running ... it cant be left til gameday to figure out ... it takes reps ...
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Offline CoachJJ

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2012, 05:50:06 PM »
http://www.dumcoach.com/index.php/topic,4700.msg61768.html#msg61768


Now this is the video I would like to see ...

I am a little thick headed today so I am not sure I totally understand what you are doing with this ... but as we load our hands on our first step and then make contact on the second step, would this still work for us ??
The last thing we want is for our kids to shoot their hands straight from the ground (stance) to contact or a bar or whatever because they wont have the same power in their punch ...
It sounds like you are looking for the same type of thing with this drill as we look for with a SLED or BAGS ... that hand punch speed and power ... we also want to see elevation in the same drill but otherwise I think that is right ...

You dont happen to have pics or film of this drill anywhere huh ??
Coach JJ
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"Football may be the best-taught subject in American High Schools because it may be the only subject that we haven't tried to make easy."

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Offline Michael

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2012, 06:02:03 PM »
Now this is the video I would like to see ...

I am a little thick headed today so I am not sure I totally understand what you are doing with this ... but as we load our hands on our first step and then make contact on the second step, would this still work for us ??
The last thing we want is for our kids to shoot their hands straight from the ground (stance) to contact or a bar or whatever because they wont have the same power in their punch ...
It sounds like you are looking for the same type of thing with this drill as we look for with a SLED or BAGS ... that hand punch speed and power ... we also want to see elevation in the same drill but otherwise I think that is right ...

You dont happen to have pics or film of this drill anywhere huh ??

No, but I plan to get HUDL this year and video all of our drills.

We don't punch.  And we don't load.  We go right from the ground to the chest plate.  Every D-Line coach I have talked to says the thing he hates the most is O-Linemen who get their hands on you right away.  So we try to do that.

But anyway, you could use whatever you want for a bar.  If you punch with palms facing each other rather than toward your own chest (which is how we do it), you could just rig something up that had two vertical bars (like the side of a chest plate).  Or two bars that were parallel to the ground, if you want to work on punching up and through.

As far as timing, you could just start the kids one step in, and loaded.  Or start them from a stance, give them "hut" or something, and they take one step, load, and freeze, then give them another "hut" or something, and they take their second step and punch as they do it.

The punching force comes from speed, I imagine.  It's hard to have a slow, violent punch.  And this drill will definitely help hand speed (as well as foot speed).  And it will get the hands inside, too.
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Offline durfee4

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2012, 08:24:11 PM »
Add Cox,s Big 5 drills,JJ O-Line manual ,and Jacks Line progression,what a tri-o for dwingers.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 08:28:09 PM by durfee4 »
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Offline Bobcat26

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2012, 08:37:54 PM »
Add Cox,s Big 5 drills,JJ O-Line manual ,and Jacks Line progression,what a tri-o for dwingers.

Password for JJ's O-Line Manual is: JJLawson

Saw it on Jack Gregory's Article page

~Chris

Offline Michael

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2012, 08:50:23 PM »
JJ's manual has some really good stuff.
“If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein

Offline CoachMikeB1970

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2012, 09:21:53 PM »
I like the post before the edit better...

I agree, most youth teams ignore the OLine to a greater degree...coaches who coach the DW better be spending a lot of time with their Oline or it won't work.

Teaching drive blocking...I do it, however...a boy who is physically overmatched will not be successful drive blocking...which is the whole point behind TKO, or at least what I thought...to give them a mechanical advantage, overmatched or not...we use drive blocking in practice as an aggression drill...yes we focus on technique while they are drive blocking (pad level, feet, biting the pit, bringing the hips, etc.) but...it is mainly for agression...

Coach,

Yes I took off my original post.  After reading it sounded like I was trying to debate which was not my intention.

My only point was I do not think by not teaching the kids a straight forward drive block we are doing them a disservice in terms of preparing them for the HS level.  As far as how it has impacted us with my team we have done rather well. 
In regards to not preparing them my thought process as to why I don’t think it’s a big deal.

1. Drive blocking and down blocking are very similar.  I think if a kid gets a lot of down blocking with us the transition in middle school to any type of straight drive blocking would be easy.
2. Unlike most coaches in our league we at least teach schemes in the DW (TKO, Pulling, Wedge, Pass Block, Reach, etc.) vs. most youth coaches only put in plays for the backs and yell at the line to “hit somebody”.
2. I realize that 70% of the kids I have will never play HS football.
3. The next time a MS coach stops by my practice with concern about what we are teaching them to prepare them for MS or HS will be the first.
4. I could run a scaled down version of our HS and MS spread system that I am sure has drive blocking but….we like to win!

However, I do agree with you 100% regarding the drive blocking in practice in terms of helping with aggression.  My O-line coach and DC hated the DW o-line schemes.  He hated it because he felt that we could not teach the kids to be aggressive.  “Get to your landmark and hold the wall” He hated that…wanted them to continue and hit someone.  I finally gave in and allowed him to teach that to our Strong End until I noticed on film he gave up leakage because he was dead set on hitting the FBI and over looked the DT right inside of him.  He hated that our Center could not be aggressive.  Start the Wall left, start the wall right or lead the wedge….that was our C’s job.  He hates it.  I am rambling but I will have to take your advice and find a way to implement more o-line drills that involve drive blocking using LEG’s to help with our aggression as it is our #1 priority in everything we do! 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 09:54:29 PM by CoachMikeB1970 »

Offline Coach_Miller

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2012, 09:48:45 PM »
Be Careful of what you wish for! It could happen.

Xmas in march!!!

Offline Michael

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2012, 09:55:05 PM »
I like to leave a little something for the coaches at the next level to teach.  You know, give them a little sense of accomplishment.

I'll do a lot of the teaching, but I'm not going to do all of it.

If they don't like it, screw 'em.

Had the same thing when I coached 5-8.  They decided in the middle of the season that we were supposed to teach the kids five plays that were used at the next level (and from the I instead of our normal wishbone), including a deep pass, which our kid had no shot at throwing.  I was like, "Hell, if we can teach the kids which way the end zone is, and what a touchdown is, and a snap, and a snap count, and a line of scrimmage, and a 3-point stance, and blocking, and tackling, and handing off, and how to avoid committing about 35 different penalties, those idiots can teach them five plays next summer."  I was outranked though, and we put the plays in.  It wasn't really a problem for O-Line, though, because the diagrams only showed what the ball guys did.  The O-Linemen were drawn in, but without any indication of what they were supposed to do.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 10:04:19 PM by Michael »
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Offline Coach Davis

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2012, 10:42:58 PM »
It wasn't really a problem for O-Line, though, because the diagrams only showed what the ball guys did.  The O-Linemen were drawn in, but without any indication of what they were supposed to do.
And there in lies the problem with most youth coaches, who are running offenses that they really don't know or understand. You could have probably asked the coach what the responsibilities are for each lineman and you would get the same response a million times..."Block the man in front of them!" AS the coach gives you a ... what are you stupid kind of look! It always comes down to the "Hit Somebody" mentality.

Last season we ran a Double Wing and many teams we saw were in shock when they saw our lineman pulling. One coach even came up to me after the game and asked how we were able to teach so much, with all the presnap shifting and then the pulling lineman. I told him it starts with understanding what you want out of your offense, knowing the blocking schemes you want to use, teaching the kids from day 1 and REP, REP, REP!!!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 10:46:15 PM by Coach Davis »
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Offline CoachJJ

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Re: OL and the DW
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2012, 01:22:23 AM »
And there in lies the problem with most youth coaches, who are running offenses that they really don't know or understand. You could have probably asked the coach what the responsibilities are for each lineman and you would get the same response a million times..."Block the man in front of them!" AS the coach gives you a ... what are you stupid kind of look! It always comes down to the "Hit Somebody" mentality.

Last season we ran a Double Wing and many teams we saw were in shock when they saw our lineman pulling. One coach even came up to me after the game and asked how we were able to teach so much, with all the presnap shifting and then the pulling lineman. I told him it starts with understanding what you want out of your offense, knowing the blocking schemes you want to use, teaching the kids from day 1 and REP, REP, REP!!!

I am always amazed when guys ask HOW we teach kids to pull ... I like to ask them HOW they teach their running backs to run to the right hole ... the kid takes a path ... simplistic but essentially that is it ... if the backs can learn to run to different locations so can the linemen ... they are after all the same age kids with the same relative level of intelligence ...
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  Erasmus Hall High School - Brooklyn, New York