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Author Topic: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy  (Read 3162 times)

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Offline Coach Baynes

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Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« on: August 01, 2012, 03:38:58 PM »
I am head coach for an 8/9 year old team. Found out at first practice I will only have 2 real linemen(xmen), but a bunch of smaller fast athletic kids. I am thinking about the 4 4 split. A few questions. I have one standout stud, fast athletic hitter. I am not overly concerned about passing at this age so I was going to play him as a walked up safety. I did that with him last year out of a 6 2 and he made most of my tackles.....is this thinking smart in the  4 4. Also as I read the manual, if I am not worried about the tight end catching passes, should I just send my spur in the c gap or do i still have him jam the TE to keep him off my backers.

Lastly, is my thinking correct in thinking about this d with a bunch of smaller faster players?

Thanks in a advance....


Offline CoachCraig

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2012, 03:45:53 PM »
when i hear smaller faster i think 521 or 33 stack.  let the ng be your best smaller agressive kid.   let your stud play mike.  because to me smaller means more movement is necessary.

read jrtitans manual  itll tell u what kind of kids ideally fit each position.   
but yes you can run this defense with just 2 bigs.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 03:51:32 PM by CoachCraig »
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Offline Coach Baynes

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2012, 03:54:44 PM »
When I hear "stack" I think of blitzing.... Am i right with that? If so I am not a big believer in blitzing a bunch......I have always felt it produces alot of big plays....both ways! I just hate the thought of sending my backers (best athletes) and getting them caught up in traffic....I like them to flow.

Now the 521, never looked at it. Is there a specific one I can look at?

Offline CoachCraig

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2012, 03:58:15 PM »
coach cox has a very good odd front defense he call 521.  he and jrtitan are two of the best coaches youll find. 

in its simplest form you can just have the lbs tap without blitzing.  then u control who if any blitz.
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Offline Coach Baynes

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2012, 04:23:31 PM »
Seems u may like the 521 more than the 44 with a bunch of smaller faster kids.....am I sensing that correctly and if so why. I like the thought of 2 down linemen and then 9 athletes persuing the football....but I don't know much about either. Plus in the 521 you still have a safety, which at this age I am not sure is necessary.....

Offline CoachCraig

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2012, 04:56:22 PM »
id say  with 1 stud and 2 bigs it just lines up easier in my head.  the safety can be used as a 'run the alley" player.  an quick aggressive ng can give offenses fits. 

so yes.  but ive run the split with fast aggressive kids at the dt's and the bigs at de too.  we put the dts in sprinter stances.  i run mine a little different than jr5itan but am incorporating alot of his stuff since its so easy to integrate.

wide tackle 6 or wt6 is a good defense you can run will lesser talent.  this is a great youth defense.  dave cisar is another well schooled coach but you have to pay for his stuff.  well worth it.  practice planing info was awesome.  a must read.  that alone could win you games

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Offline Coach Baynes

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2012, 05:17:32 PM »
Huge fan of cisar....run his single wing. Ran his wt6 last year. This year I have the "a" team, (which is a relative term in my town) which means no true mpps. Don't need to "hide" players. Trying to get as many of my smaller athletic kids on the field at one time....that is why I am looking at other defenses with fewer big men.

I am hesitant with playing a nose because I fear having free offensive guards to attach my linebackers.....that is another reason why I like the 4 4.... Seems to keep the linemen off my linebackers.....need them running free. Is that thought off base?

Thx for your thoughts....

Offline CoachCraig

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2012, 06:01:50 PM »
no the thought isnt off base at all.  thats why when i go odd front my NG MUST be lightning quick.  nothing disrupts an offense more than a quick penetrating NG. 

so, important question.....what kind of coverage are you comfortable running/teaching?   man or zone?  start there.

you mentioned no MMP type kids.

how many coaches?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 06:08:53 PM by CoachCraig »
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2012, 06:43:16 PM »
Coach B

Not an even front fan at all but I will say this.

The 44 teams we have faced at the Smurf levels that stunt with 6 every down are really tough.

As those teams grow up and play the full blown 44…they are even tougher.

I have seen it all in my day…and the 44 is one D that still makes me itch.

Food for thought….
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Offline Coach Baynes

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2012, 08:48:32 PM »
Mahonz.....thx. Great thoughts.

Craig, I run zone.....corners deep thirds, OLBs 45 degree angles, ILBs flow with QB getting depth,  my stud "plays football". Last year I had more picks than completed passes. Not overly concerned about getting beat with the pass on a consistent basis.....may regret those thoughts..... No true mpps, but have some players who need work....let's say on a 1-10 scale I'll have about 4 players that are about a 4 or 5. Have 4 asst. coaches who are all pretty good.

Not sure I have that NG you are talking about. I keep going back to the thoughts that if I can keep linemen off my LBs and let my athletes flow, I'll be tough to beat.....that is why I keep coming back to the 4 4......the more homework i do, the more I question myself!

Offline CoachCraig

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2012, 09:13:39 PM »
this is one of the areas jrtitan and i differ.  i play fast explosive kids at dt's.  my de's are 7 tech.  they are my best big guys.   teams rarely live in a or b gap.  c gap is where the best teams go and d gap is where fast teams go.  i play cover 3 alot.  invert vs teams that dont scare me passing, and cover 2 vs teams that run alot of flood or combo routes.  i use my bandit(olb) to drop back as a deep 1/2 safety.

i added a 900 call to put the de in a 9 tech.  the call would be 931.  looks more like a 44 stack.  although the olb isnt stacked.
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Offline JrTitan

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2012, 10:59:54 PM »
I am head coach for an 8/9 year old team. Found out at first practice I will only have 2 real linemen(xmen), but a bunch of smaller fast athletic kids. I am thinking about the 4 4 split. A few questions. I have one standout stud, fast athletic hitter. I am not overly concerned about passing at this age so I was going to play him as a walked up safety. I did that with him last year out of a 6 2 and he made most of my tackles.....is this thinking smart in the  4 4. Also as I read the manual, if I am not worried about the tight end catching passes, should I just send my spur in the c gap or do i still have him jam the TE to keep him off my backers.

Lastly, is my thinking correct in thinking about this d with a bunch of smaller faster players?

Thanks in a advance....

You only need two defensive lineman types to play this defense.  If they sre smallish you can move them around and slant, pinch, etc.  If they can demand double teams or confusion, this defense is really tough with linebackers running free.  The rest off it can played with smaller or athletic kids. Sam/spur position is where we put our best player. The Sam blitz is a great stunt, but teams will adjust if you run it every down.
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Offline Coach Baynes

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2012, 11:40:55 PM »
I have one really good, quick somewhat big D lineman, and one really big but slower D lineman. I can definatley stunt one well.....the other, not so sure.

So if u had one true stud u would put him at spur? That worries me because he can get caught up in traffic, or they can just run away from him. If I walk him up at safety, I feel that he can make every play if need be.....he is that kind of player. I have one player that I misused last year. Great hitter, aggressive coachable kid that does not play "in space" well. Tried him at LB, didn't play there well....looked lost. Tried him at corner....worse. Put him at DE at the end of the year and told him to attack nearest back and was a terror...I'm thinking him for spur. That is one of the reasons I think I like this D....I think it cold be a great spot for this kid.

Am I thinking right?

Offline CoachCraig

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 09:12:32 AM »
id say if hes a good de then keep him there.  let him flip to strength if he can handle it.  the cool thing about jrtitans version of the split 4 is a de is always just a de.

spur should be an all around good lb.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 10:14:03 AM by CoachCraig »
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Offline angalton

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Re: Question from newbie 4 4 split guy
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2012, 02:36:10 PM »
Do you mean small not stripers or small as in teeny tiny. I have one striper on my defense. Most are 5 to 10 lbs from striper. I like the speed because holes are not holes for long. As for size at my age the big non stripers are the fastest, strongest and best tacklers. 4 - 4 split has worked very well with us. 24 points in 9 games.
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