Author Topic: DCWT BEAST  (Read 9733 times)

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Offline davecisar

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2017, 09:06:59 AM »
Whatever Clark's answer for this problem in his DCWT, I would use the same thing here. Or why else even bother calling it the DCWT Beast?
You trust MIke M and his real world experience with the Beast right?
Then why not trust his experience in unlimited weight football and Beast to help you understand blocking a DT with a WB with todays rules in unlimited weight football just wouldnt work?
It may be an "answer" but I thought you guys were looking for something that would consistently work
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline michealmyers

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2017, 09:34:57 AM »
No...#2 still has the KO.

Im not sure what Clark has planned for motion sown the road so still motion him but not into the O-line....outside of the TE withe the TE blocking GOL.

Seems cleaner.

I guess it also depends what the DE is doing.  Just from looking at the pic, you could run blast fast enough and the DE wouldn't even be an issue.  Now if he's crashing or pretty aggressive then yeah I could see kicking him out.   I was thinking about 2 calls maybe, if running a 14 blast or so the DE probably wouldn't matter, if 18, kick him out and run inside of that

Offline mahonz

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2017, 09:54:46 AM »
I have seen a 130 lb kid, ruin a well over 200 lb guy's day by running into him full speed. The big dude didn't have a chance. He got crushed.

Sure. Anything is possible. But if Blast is your Bread and Butter do you want that or do you want to keep the position more wide open for a kid that can block a smaller dude effectively and run reverse. Thats my only contention.

Its like CB's posting up TE's in the 46. We tried but no go. Has to be a LB'r with more ass because the CB's were our 95 pound WB's that are lightning fast and some of the TE's we see are massive. Not all...but it only takes one to ruin your day.

Gotta play the odds as Clark taught me long ago.

If you are in a weight capped league this is a non issue.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline Dimson

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2017, 11:08:03 AM »
My issue is if this is an issue with Beast, how is it not an issue in the DCWT when the blocking rules are the exact same?

Offline mahonz

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2017, 11:13:12 AM »
My issue is if this is an issue with Beast, how is it not an issue in the DCWT when the blocking rules are the exact same?

I would make the same adjustment in the DCWT.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline Dimson

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2017, 11:39:06 AM »
I would make the same adjustment in the DCWT.
I am sure you would but WWCD?

Offline mahonz

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2017, 11:46:20 AM »
I am sure you would but WWCD?

I dont know what that stands for?
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline bigshel

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2017, 12:47:11 PM »
I am sure you would but WWCD?

What Would Clark Do?

Offline Dimson

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2017, 01:01:50 PM »

Offline jrk5150

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2017, 01:07:02 PM »
Guys, don't lose sight of what BEAST is.  Mike has morphed it some with what they're doing, but ultimately, it's a POWER formation to allow you to have three extra blockers at the POA without any pulling or other shenanigans.

Why would you run BEAST with a "normal" WB?  Or with your QB in a sniffer spot?  There's no point to doing that.  BEAST should have your three best blocking backs in front of the ball.

I run this with two FB's and my best blocking WB.

It's a PACKAGE with a short series of plays.  You can probably run the same line blocking with it, but screw motion and all that.  WHY would you do that? Just run your normal offense if you want to do that stuff!

Offline mahonz

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2017, 01:10:33 PM »
What Would Clark Do?

Ah....Clark is very open to addendum's written within his Manuals if his customers want them.  That is why his Manuals are so large. They literally cover everything.   

So...like with this minor option with inserting....you have choices that fit your team. 
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline mahonz

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2017, 01:18:00 PM »
Guys, don't lose sight of what BEAST is.  Mike has morphed it some with what they're doing, but ultimately, it's a POWER formation to allow you to have three extra blockers at the POA without any pulling or other shenanigans.

Why would you run BEAST with a "normal" WB?  Or with your QB in a sniffer spot?  There's no point to doing that.  BEAST should have your three best blocking backs in front of the ball.

I run this with two FB's and my best blocking WB.

It's a PACKAGE with a short series of plays.  You can probably run the same line blocking with it, but screw motion and all that.  WHY would you do that? Just run your normal offense if you want to do that stuff!

All good points. I believe that is where this will progress but Im still curious about these ideas.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline jrk5150

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2017, 01:31:42 PM »
Agreed, but once in a while probably good to remember what you're trying to do.  Beast is built for blast, Clark is correct.  You only need enough complementary plays to make sure the D either can't load up on blast, or pays big time if they do. 

In my somewhat limited experience - blast and sweep are givens, you have to f*ck with the three perimeter defenders so they can't just crash into the blast.  If you can threaten sweep to keep them honest, you will never have to run anything but blast.  So sweep becomes two things - punish them if they cheat, and/or run it every so often just to keep them honest.

Those two plays should stand on their own, with their own backfield blocking rules.  You can do whatever you want with the line, it shouldn't matter.  You should be able to use your three blocking backs to block blast or sweep without anything more than the line being responsible for the DL. That's why I always ran double team blocking with Beast.  GOL will likely work FINE.

You want to carefully consider the other plays you might run, and that you can seamlessly merge them with similar plays out of your other formations.  I admit I don't know DCWT that well.  But just as an example - I have never installed more than 5 total plays from shotgun beast.  Beyond blast and sweep, I also installed counter, counter trap, and power pass.  Those three plays were also in my "regular" offense, so they weren't difficult adds, and they served the purpose of being complementary plays that work with Beast.  But I can count on one hand the number of times I ran those three secondary plays as a combined total, LOL.  And that's over 7 seasons of running BEAST at least 25% of the time.  When I ran it U/C I ran wedge too.  Bottom line - 99% of the time I was in Beast/Crunch (U/C), I ran wedge, blast or sweep.  And as mentioned - sweep probably less than 25% of those calls.

So sure, review what you CAN do, but don't forget, this is supposed to be a limited trick pony - and it's one hell of a trick.  Get too fancy with it, and IMO, it will start to lose its effectiveness.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 01:38:23 PM by jrk5150 »

Offline mahonz

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2017, 01:47:57 PM »
Agreed, but once in a while probably good to remember what you're trying to do.  Beast is built for blast, Clark is correct.  You only need enough complementary plays to make sure the D either can't load up on blast, or pays big time if they do. 

In my somewhat limited experience - blast and sweep are givens, you have to f*ck with the three perimeter defenders so they can't just crash into the blast.  If you can threaten sweep to keep them honest, you will never have to run anything but blast.  So sweep becomes two things - punish them if they cheat, and/or run it every so often just to keep them honest.

Those two plays should stand on their own, with their own backfield blocking rules.  You can do whatever you want with the line, it shouldn't matter.  You should be able to use your three blocking backs to block blast or sweep without anything more than the line being responsible for the DL. That's why I always ran double team blocking with Beast.  GOL will likely work FINE.

You want to carefully consider the other plays you might run, and that you can seamlessly merge them with similar plays out of your other formations.  I admit I don't know DCWT that well.  But just as an example - I have never installed more than 5 total plays from shotgun beast.  Beyond blast and sweep, I also installed counter, counter trap, and power pass.  Those three plays were also in my "regular" offense, so they weren't difficult adds, and they served the purpose of being complementary plays that work with Beast.  But I can count on one hand the number of times I ran those three secondary plays as a combined total, LOL.  And that's over 7 seasons of running BEAST at least 25% of the time.  When I ran it U/C I ran wedge too.  Bottom line - 99% of the time I was in Beast/Crunch (U/C), I ran wedge, blast or sweep.  And as mentioned - sweep probably less than 25% of those calls.

So sure, review what you CAN do, but don't forget, this is supposed to be a limited trick pony - and it's one hell of a trick.  Get too fancy with it, and IMO, it will start to lose its effectiveness.

Adding mega splits turned our Blast into 3 plays....A Gap...C Gap and stretch. Only the inside sniffer changes his rules when we run A Gap.

Most of the teams on our schedule this season were seasoned Beast defenders. So we ran a ton of stretch and it worked out very well. This was all on Gumby.....he insisted wider was the key....too include the splits....and he was correct.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline DREagle

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2017, 02:05:54 PM »
The beauty of beast is it's simplicity IMO which we seem to be getting away from. It can be installed in minutes and creates big headaches for opponents.

Our 4th grade season I installed it as a short yardage PAT (running) package during our walk through practice the night before the start of our 4th grade season, following Mahonz' advice.  We spent 5 minutes on it and scored every time we used it in our first 5 games that season (using it only for PAT or plays inside the 10).  We hardly spent any time at all working it, from a time investment perspective the ROI is HUGE.  I would encourage folks to keep that in mind as you work on this.