Author Topic: DCWT BEAST  (Read 11633 times)

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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2017, 02:45:41 PM »
So sure, review what you CAN do, but don't forget, this is supposed to be a limited trick pony - and it's one hell of a trick.  Get too fancy with it, and IMO, it will start to lose its effectiveness.

LOL. I'm going in the opposite direction with this Spring. More accurately, I will be doing my best to convince the OC. He's a sucker for a pass play, so it will be an easy sell. Credit goes to Michael Myers for the inspiration. I'll post film and let you know how it goes.

John, I'll also try to remember to record and post video of the "tunnels" we create. As a DW coach, it will blow your freaking mind.
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Offline jrk5150

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2017, 02:49:03 PM »
Honestly Lar, I kind of came to see what you mean when I got thinking about all of those mini-Oklahoma drills you end up creating across the field.  You cannot defend that.

The trick is how you adjust when, as Potter said, the D doesn't follow you, they just do their thing.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2017, 03:10:14 PM »
The trick is how you adjust when, as Potter said, the D doesn't follow you, they just do their thing.
That's been bothering me a lot lately, so I've been thinking about it a lot. Here's what I've come up with.

1) You have to beat us twice before we adjust. So, our beast is about 8.5 yards from the ball to the TE's outside foot. It's 10 yards after I get done yelling at them. If a defense decides to not play ball with us and limit their "box" to a pedestrian 6 yards, we are going to try and bounce it outside of that box. I'm not going to try and diagram it, but if worse comes to worst, our domino call comes into effect. We might get stung a time or two, but if we get that edge, we score. Mahonz posted a screen cap of a team that loaded up the inside on us a couple of Springs ago. It was 50-0 at the half.

2) I'm going to call it Beast Platinum unless someone comes up with a better name like Beast Professional Edition. Anyway, we will introduce jet motion to the Beast and I can ignore anyone from a play side 2 tech and back.

Personally, I think all these chalk wars are a waste of time. I have more reasons why Beast won't work than reasons why it does. Same goes for stupid splits. I stopped worrying about why it works when it shouldn't. I tend to think that we've left many DCs in our wake worrying about the same thing.
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Offline michealmyers

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2017, 03:30:05 PM »
That's been bothering me a lot lately, so I've been thinking about it a lot. Here's what I've come up with.

1) You have to beat us twice before we adjust. So, our beast is about 8.5 yards from the ball to the TE's outside foot. It's 10 yards after I get done yelling at them. If a defense decides to not play ball with us and limit their "box" to a pedestrian 6 yards, we are going to try and bounce it outside of that box. I'm not going to try and diagram it, but if worse comes to worst, our domino call comes into effect. We might get stung a time or two, but if we get that edge, we score. Mahonz posted a screen cap of a team that loaded up the inside on us a couple of Springs ago. It was 50-0 at the half.

2) I'm going to call it Beast Platinum unless someone comes up with a better name like Beast Professional Edition. Anyway, we will introduce jet motion to the Beast and I can ignore anyone from a play side 2 tech and back.

Personally, I think all these chalk wars are a waste of time. I have more reasons why Beast won't work than reasons why it does. Same goes for stupid splits. I stopped worrying about why it works when it shouldn't. I tend to think that we've left many DCs in our wake worrying about the same thing.

Beast Platinum LOL that's great.   Or you could just version it out like Apple products.......Beast, Beast Plus, Beast X.  Then along with that comes the different variations of the plays, blast, blast plus, blast x LOL


Offline michealmyers

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2017, 03:33:32 PM »
I was looking at the pic posted by Clark, so an easier way to run Jet out of this would be to just move #4 on the line, move 1,2 over a gap and move the Left split end in the slot and roll with it. 

Offline mahonz

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #65 on: November 29, 2017, 03:34:03 PM »
That's been bothering me a lot lately, so I've been thinking about it a lot. Here's what I've come up with.

1) You have to beat us twice before we adjust. So, our beast is about 8.5 yards from the ball to the TE's outside foot. It's 10 yards after I get done yelling at them. If a defense decides to not play ball with us and limit their "box" to a pedestrian 6 yards, we are going to try and bounce it outside of that box. I'm not going to try and diagram it, but if worse comes to worst, our domino call comes into effect. We might get stung a time or two, but if we get that edge, we score. Mahonz posted a screen cap of a team that loaded up the inside on us a couple of Springs ago. It was 50-0 at the half.

2) I'm going to call it Beast Platinum unless someone comes up with a better name like Beast Professional Edition. Anyway, we will introduce jet motion to the Beast and I can ignore anyone from a play side 2 tech and back.

Personally, I think all these chalk wars are a waste of time. I have more reasons why Beast won't work than reasons why it does. Same goes for stupid splits. I stopped worrying about why it works when it shouldn't. I tend to think that we've left many DCs in our wake worrying about the same thing.

I dont believe Coach Potter would stick to that plan very long.
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Offline jrk5150

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2017, 03:55:59 PM »
I think he would, because his kids are probably a lot faster than yours, and they are a hell of a lot meaner.  He might be the only coach in the country who can out-mojo you.   :)

Offline mahonz

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2017, 04:01:18 PM »
I think he would, because his kids are probably a lot faster than yours, and they are a hell of a lot meaner.  He might be the only coach in the country who can out-mojo you.   :)

You are probably right but we'd go down swinging.  :)

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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2017, 04:20:38 PM »
I was looking at the pic posted by Clark, so an easier way to run Jet out of this would be to just move #4 on the line, move 1,2 over a gap and move the Left split end in the slot and roll with it.

If it were me, I'd move 3 on the line and have the X receiver (left SE) step off as a Z back.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2017, 12:18:40 AM »
Same goes for stupid splits. I stopped worrying about why it works when it shouldn't. I tend to think that we've left many DCs in our wake worrying about the same thing.

But that's just it.  I don't worry about the splits.  I see opportunity.  I don't see how there's a way to bounce it outside of our contain when regardless of how wide your offensive set is, the ball-carrier is still going to have to get outside and the distance in which he has to do so is the same for the ball-carrier regardless of the the offensive (or defensive) scheme.  Just my 2 cents.

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Offline CoachDP

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2017, 12:27:22 AM »
I dont believe Coach Potter would stick to that plan very long.

Perhaps, but our focus isn't on what our opponent is doing, but on what we're doing.  Our philosophy is (unlike most defenses) to act, not react.  Here's a post I wrote to you in 2014:

Our defensive philosophy:

We don't adjust to offenses.  Offenses adjust to us.  We have our set defensive plays and run them.

Our defenses weren't so unusual in formation, but in how we taught and emphasized it.  (Invisible Offense approach, ILBs covering TEs, emphasis on executing defensive plays as opposed to a "read & react" style of defense,  ball recovery as the first priority of each play result, no-break-down tackling, patience in giving up the yards on small plays as opposed to giving up yards on big plays (which allowed us to punish the offense more through more plays), never giving up yards on the sweep/big play, and seeing how many players we could put down.)  I think these were the things that made us successful.

If "they" aren't as good as "us," then we can execute our plays on defense and their offense has to change what they do to stop us.  Which usually lessens their offensive effectiveness because they are more concerned about stopping what we do, as opposed to just dictating their strength. 


--Dave
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #71 on: November 30, 2017, 12:35:43 AM »
But that's just it.  I don't worry about the splits.  I see opportunity.  I don't see how there's a way to bounce it outside of our contain when regardless of how wide your offensive set is, the ball-carrier is still going to have to get outside and the distance in which he has to do so is the same for the ball-carrier regardless of the the offensive (or defensive) scheme.  Just my 2 cents.

--Dave

It's about playing the odds. So far, in the hundreds of mega-wide reps vs a live opponent that I have personally been a part of, only two tried to overload the inside. I don't believe they knew what they were doing. I think the were desperate to find something that worked. What are the odds that I face a coach of your caliber with your defensive philosophy who knows what he's doing and has trained his defense to be more vicious than our offense? If and when that day comes, I don't think it will matter what I run or what splits I use.

You do bring up an interesting point. Our offense absolutely reacts to what the defense does. It's a big part of our identity.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2017, 12:43:33 AM »
You are probably right but we'd go down swinging.

Well, there's no way to know, so to even discuss it is foolhardy.  Your approach to Mojo is much the same as mine: we both place a priority on it.  (Much to the consternation of many others who think it shouldn't or can't be taught.)  And regardless of who goes down swinging, I'm sure there'd be no quit in either team.  It's the single most challenging aspect of our philosophy that I've found difficult to replicate at the high school level.  I know we're tough and physical in high school and the way we execute Mojo at the high school level gives us an edge.  But at the youth level, it wasn't merely an edge, it was the dominant factor for game outcomes.  Other teams (coaches, actually) hated us for it and complained about it.  At my previous high school, they didn't think it was neccessary but the fact that our opponents had (almost) twice as many turnovers (31 to our 16) as we did, was proof enough to me.  At my present high school, we're able to teach it with no issues or controversy.  We won't out-athlete anyone, but we can still be the nastiest players on the field.  The difference is that the physicality gap is smaller in high school than in youth ball.

--Dave
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 01:08:09 AM by CoachDP »
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline CoachDP

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2017, 01:07:07 AM »
in the hundreds of mega-wide reps vs a live opponent that I have personally been a part of, only two tried to overload the inside.

--But I don't consider what we do as an "overload."  We are balanced and play within the proximity of where your ball-carriers are.  Why would I play with a Spread-mentality and put my defenders on islands while stretching them far away from the point of attack?

What are the odds that I face a coach of your caliber with your defensive philosophy who knows what he's doing and has trained his defense to be more vicious than our offense?

--No idea.  I just know what we do and why we do it.  I'm not saying what we do is better.  I'm just saying why we do it.

--I used to spend more time concerning myself with our opponent than with our own team.  I'd worry about them manipulating us into knots with our "having" to adjust.  But when I started more of an emphasis on "self-scouting," worrying more about what we do than what our opponent did, and executing our own defensive plays as opposed to reacting to their offense, then we got waay better.  We found this approach forced the opponent to adjust to us.  I think back to an opponent this year who had a man-child at Fullback (230 lbs.)  He was the single-best player I'd seen on any opponent.  I'd seen two of their games where he just walked over and ran through defenders.  When we played them, he touched the ball only 4 times.  They scored 6 points against us.  Why?  Because they adjusted their offense to our defense.  How do I know this?  Because when we shut him down (on just 4 touches), they quit running him.

--Dave


 
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline CoachDP

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Re: DCWT BEAST
« Reply #74 on: November 30, 2017, 01:22:11 AM »
I think he would, because his kids are probably a lot faster than yours, and they are a hell of a lot meaner.  He might be the only coach in the country who can out-mojo you.

As coaches, we were very bold in our emphasis on Mojo.  We were upfront and transparent about it and it was definitely our #1 priority.  It was preached in practice from Day 1 and discussed as if it were just another fundamental (which for us, it was).  This caused bad feelings (i.e., ego issues) for opposing coaches.  The goal was to be the most physically aggressive team in the country and as such, we were "hitting to hurt."  We were counting the opponent's players who were down or slow to get up.  We made no bones about this.  While there is no way to "prove" which team is most physical (because you can't play everyone), that wasn't really the point.  Proving it was never the point.  Practicing and playing as if you are trying to prove it was the point.  Looking back at our video from those years really does remind me of the way we practiced and the intensity in which we coached it.  We were hungry to play on Saturdays and show off that aspect of our team.

--Dave
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 01:24:49 AM by CoachDP »
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope