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Author Topic: who else saw the "in line" huddle?  (Read 1465 times)

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Offline CoachOCD

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who else saw the "in line" huddle?
« on: October 31, 2016, 04:32:32 PM »
I saw this last week, forgot name of HS team, think I drowned that brain cell in barley n hops. This in-line huddle is in lieu of traditional huddle, all 11 line up in a straight line, right behind the center. Someone yells "break!" then everybody sprints to position, they get down and quickly snap the ball.

Just curious who else saw this and what you thought of it?

The timing of the snap was just at same 4 second mark as is the goal of my "quick set" huddle break, eg to break huddle get down and snap ball at the 4 of a 1,2,3 4 Mississippi count, right about 4 seconds if you were to stop watch it.

With conservative formation choice, IMO a mistake, I think the value of the quick set is cheapened. Opposite is also true, and IMO prime usda choice cut, having multiple high contrast formations can (and does) have defenses confused, still moving at snap, and yelling at eachother to move to "fit" formation.

Point being is I see tremendous strategy in the quick set huddle break, specially with a wing T styled team. Multiple formations causes defenses problems as is, add in the quick set I believe there exists a great synergy between the 2 that exacerbates these problems.

I ALSO know that in today's football, great value is placed on "no huddle" hurry up offense. The hurry up is commonly coupled with a spread attack, commonly with "check with me" after a false cadence. This has its merit and causes defenses to hide or "disguise" coverage's & blitz packages. When done very fast the defense gets on heels starts making mistakes as the pressure builds.

The quick set huddle break offers every bit as much pressure on the defense as the no-huddle n hurry up does. 

OC



Offline DREagle

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Re: who else saw the "in line" huddle?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2016, 05:01:10 PM »
Chatfield HS does that here locally,  I watched their game this past week live. The novelty wears off pretty quick.

Michigan was looking at scout film for one of their players and borrowed it:
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 05:07:46 PM by DREagle »

Offline COACH JC

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Re: who else saw the "in line" huddle?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2016, 06:59:11 PM »
I see no advantage in it.

That is pretty much how our D is presnap tho, until we determine strength.
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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: who else saw the "in line" huddle?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2016, 07:24:28 AM »
I would just run a sugar huddle if I wanted to do something like that. The Far west Jets were awesome at it. They would come out of it very fast, get set for a second and snap the ball. It could be difficult to adjust strength, especially to see unbalanced in time to line up correctly. They caught people out of position all the time. You have to actually practice it to be good at it though.

Offline Prodigy

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Re: who else saw the "in line" huddle?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2016, 10:39:21 AM »
here's the video: http://www.maxpreps.com/m/article.aspx?articleid=81bd69a5-c472-41d6-9b1c-592bbcdc049d


I thought it was awfully cool, especially when it worked to score a TD...plus it just looks cool.  I think it has its' place, but it's a very small place.  I think it most situations, especially in youth ball, execution is going to go much further than trying to confuse the defense in this way...which is really all that you're doing.  Trying to add some element of surprise and confusion to the defense.

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.

Offline Prodigy

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Re: who else saw the "in line" huddle?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2016, 10:42:57 AM »
Important to note that the team on film LOST...so basically the "centipede" or "train" huddle might be good for about 1 touchdown.  It's something you pull out when the score is 52-0 and you don't want to get shut out.  I think if you have to resort to something like this, it's probably because you failed to adequately prepare earlier in the season to execute your core plays.
If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.

Offline CoachOCD

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Re: who else saw the "in line" huddle?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2016, 12:00:07 PM »
coaches I didn't suggest a quick set huddle break be used in place of coaching? nor to cover up some sort of lack of coaching or inadequacies. I have used the quick set with great results. I am asking about the human centipede huddle just because it simulates what I like, the quick set huddle break.
The centipede was just a version I have never seen before....I didn't know if this was a common thing in some circles or not.

I first saw the quick set (QS) huddle break 10 + years ago. It was a power running, wing T "styled" team, with a limited PAP attack. They used this QS all season, every game, every play, and teams had problems with it, including the game I saw. It was the semi final in playoffs and the 13th game of season, and QS was just giving fits to the other teams defense. I know because I was rooting for the "other' team, and our coaching staff was scrambling trying to get our team to "fit" or remain gap sound WHILE maintaining secure pass protection. It was the differing formations that was causing problems. Having them scouted showed some formations but they cam out with several, never seen before formations AND THAT caused the problem & incidentally got me thinking...MORE FORMATIONS+QUICK SET = PROBLEM FOR DEFENSE, a great synergy was in play here.

I never thought of the quick set as a novelty, the centipede version is a little "different" probably perceived as gimmicky looking, but hay Im not going to throw rocks at everything new or different.If quick set is considered ineffectual, gimmicky and/or ineffectual...do you hold same scrutiny/criticisms for the the no-huddle, hurry up, check with me system? is it equally ineffectual?

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: who else saw the "in line" huddle?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2016, 12:03:09 PM »
The quick or sugar huddle works very well for what you describe. Not a gimmick at all.

Offline Prodigy

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Re: who else saw the "in line" huddle?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2016, 02:03:36 PM »
If quick set is considered ineffectual, gimmicky and/or ineffectual...do you hold same scrutiny/criticisms for the the no-huddle, hurry up, check with me system? is it equally ineffectual?

Personally I think they are different beasts entirely.

In the AFCA Offensive Bible there's an interesting read on running no huddle.  Basically if your team moves the ball 7 yards in a play, has to run back to the huddle and you run 60 plays in a game, this turns out to be an extra 900 yards in a game that the team runs.  I run no huddle for a few different reasons:

1-maximize play time / minimize downtime
2-simplifies assignments.  Kids can look at their wrist coaches and know what they have to do.
3-maximum control over tempo & clock

None of the reasons I run no huddle have anything to do with the defense.  Sure I've seen some situations where we wear down defenses because we run plays so quickly and I guess that if we catch a defense off-guard they might have to burn a time out to adjust to us rather than screaming from the sideline...but that's not why we run no huddle.

To me, the centipede looks cool...but for what we're running (DTDW with no variations in formation), there'd be no point to it.  I think the chief advantage of this sort of huddle and quick snap is to come out in a look that the defense isn't expecting and capitalize on it before they have a chance to adjust...nothing more.

I guess the effectiveness of something like this really boils down to a couple of things.  Do you have a strong passing game?  Do you have multiple formations?  Do the teams you play adjust to formations?
If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.

Offline jrk5150

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Re: who else saw the "in line" huddle?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2016, 02:41:53 PM »
I learned this year how effective no huddle can be to wear a team down.  I learned that because our roster was too short to go up tempo, and we suffered for it.

Honestly, last year, I think we won at least one game if not two primarily because we had a larger roster and went reasonably up-tempo, and by the second half the other team was just gassed and couldn't keep up. I didn't really put that together until we had to go slow down this year to conserve our own roster.

I also think a fast paced huddle break to snap would be of immense value if you did a lot of formation adjustments.  I just don't think most youth teams would be able to adjust fast to what you're doing.

But I'll also add that whatever time you spend working on breaking the huddle and lining up and snapping is time NOT spent on blocking and tackling. And that's where you certainly have points to argue for/against. How much does that add vs. more work on execution?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 02:45:27 PM by jrk5150 »

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: who else saw the "in line" huddle?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2016, 03:00:29 PM »
When I was at PSL, we ran super fast no huddle mostly because it helped us be more efficient in practice. With wristbands and rushing to the los we got a ton of reps in each practice. The defense not adjusting properly or getting caught out of position was just an added bonus as was wearing down your opponent and not having to practice 2 minute offense(it was our base so why bother). We did have to practice 4 minute offense which is something most youth teams don't do. If you are 100% super fast no huddle then 4 minute offense is hard to run.

Offline davecisar

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Re: who else saw the "in line" huddle?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2016, 06:18:43 PM »
Ive never seen a youth team- over 1000 games watched go faster than Robs PSL teams
Same for practice pace
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Offline CoachOCD

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Re: who else saw the "in line" huddle?
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2016, 01:02:54 PM »
very first day of hell week, 1 of the stations is moving to football & getting down quickly, over and over

The QS will have many unforeseen benefits, that is several aspects of the game that would commonly be over looked, maybe never even thought of, in a conversation like this.

I agree, if you are a single formation team, there is less benefit to breaking huddle getting down and snapping at the 4 second mark. But it could be argued/debated there still exists some.

-Maybe the quick-set helps cultivate an aggressive mind set...charging the LOS, getting down, and firing out
-it still is Awesome! with "NO PLAY", defenses jump more against this than any other O I have run
-defenses wont have time to shift or fake blitzes to confuse O linemen, there is in fact no time for them to move or bounce around
-disguising coverage by shifting / moving up, back in or out, doesn't exist, the defenses cards are on the table

there are some coaches that make zero adjustment and just get worked.
Then you have some that attempt to have defenders line up the middle by the ball, at least this is a coach trying to thwart our efforts. They will
-align keying off of where my strong side linemen go
-call strength and line up over towards the TE side, if any, or which side has more linemen
-what side has more backs eg
-what side has eligible receivers

THIS above is more often than not the case, and as a result, just like I saw 10 years ago, teams are caught yelling at eachother, standing up, sometimes sideways or even backs to offense when ball is hiked. Its a tremendous amount of stress on the defense to have this line up in front of you


....X.....O....O...C.O.O.Y
......................1.........4
............................
.................3....2



...............X...OCOOO...Y
......................1............
.....................................
.................3...2...4




......X..........Y...O..O.C..O..O
...............4.............1........
........................................
.......................3.....2..........


The above randomly picked formations are a few examples of formations a defense could see. I have defenders covering tackles thinking they are TE, I have nobody covering 2 receivers running wide open, I have 5 defenders vs my 2, 1 after I pull guard, backside, this leaves me all double teams at POA. Play the line like an accordion.