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Author Topic: Is Defense Dead?  (Read 9155 times)

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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2016, 08:04:18 AM »
I know the answers for this in youth, it's coaching. Could the same be happening in hs? Has defense just not caught up to all the advanced concepts that hs coaches are now able to install? So maybe the current general group of hs coaches need to do some clinic time and learn. I do think that two teams running hurry up puts the defense in a bad spot. If you run hurry up and aren't smart about slowing down to give your D a break then you are shooting yourself in the foot. I see absolutely no point in scoring 50 just to give up 49 because you're defense is so exhausted they can barely pick themselves off the field after a play.

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2016, 08:12:14 AM »
R

We actually had a parent say could you guys not score so fast, just take more plays. You know I love to to go fast, we huddled this year trying to keep the D off the field. A long drive was 8 plays usually we scored within 6.

I know coaching was the answer for our D, but that is in another thread. I look around our district & I know there are some good defensive staffs, yet there wasn't a good defense top to bottom. I just wonder why.

Joe
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Offline Test Account

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2016, 08:31:07 AM »
I know the answers for this in youth, it's coaching. Could the same be happening in hs? Has defense just not caught up to all the advanced concepts that hs coaches are now able to install? So maybe the current general group of hs coaches need to do some clinic time and learn. I do think that two teams running hurry up puts the defense in a bad spot. If you run hurry up and aren't smart about slowing down to give your D a break then you are shooting yourself in the foot. I see absolutely no point in scoring 50 just to give up 49 because you're defense is so exhausted they can barely pick themselves off the field after a play.
good coaching is not common, much less advanced coaching.
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Offline Test Account

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2016, 08:31:36 AM »
R

We actually had a parent say could you guys not score so fast, just take more plays. You know I love to to go fast, we huddled this year trying to keep the D off the field. A long drive was 8 plays usually we scored within 6.

I know coaching was the answer for our D, but that is in another thread. I look around our district & I know there are some good defensive staffs, yet there wasn't a good defense top to bottom. I just wonder why.

Joe

maybe they are not what you think they are?
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Offline CoachMattC

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2016, 09:34:46 AM »
IMO it's a regulatory thing. Football as a product is more valuable when more points are scored. So, the rules committees at the college and pro levels turn the knobs to favor the offense and to keep the best offensive players from getting hurt. This almost always means there is something new in each rules cycle the defense isn't allowed to do. I am not saying they're wrong to prevent injuries. Tremendous progress has been made which will keep our sport alive into the future. But, in economic terms, you could make a pretty good case that the defensive side of the ball has recently become over regulated.

The result is what we have now, basketball on grass. The college and pro coaches find new ways to exploit the rules changes and those schemes filter down to the HS levels. At this point at every level, it is safe to say that if you have excellent QB play, you can play with anyone. UCF proved that to me back in the Blake Bortles era. They had no business being on the same field with some of those teams talent wise but Bortles just executed with great consistency.

The smarter college defenses I see are the ones that seem to play more conservatively between the 20's and then stiffen up in the red zone when they can use the size of the field to their advantage. Red zone defense is where I think progress can be made at the HS level since the kickers are nowhere near as consistent as they are at the upper levels. I took my nephew to the Ga. Tech/Virginia game this past weekend. Tech is a school similar to the service academies where they have created a culture of being successful with less talent than everyone else in their conference. They played defense exactly how I described. Hitches, short crossing routes and zone runs were consistently there for 5-7 yards. They just let the offense make the play and came up and tackled. Gave up lots of first downs. But in the red zone they forced multiple field goals which Virginia missed. Then on offense they had a handful of explosive scoring plays and that was the game.
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Offline Dimson

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2016, 11:28:37 AM »
We played pretty ok defense considering we had many 2 way players due to low numbers. We could have work more on team defense but it is hard with less than 22 kids on a team.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2016, 11:49:41 AM »
maybe they are not what you think they are?
Not where he coaches. Some very good football with some very good staffs with D1 talent all over the place. I was looking at the playoff bracket that Joe coaches in and you see teams like Apopka and Manatee giving up big points. Very interesting quarter finals games coming up btw. Vero Beach vs Dr. Phillips ought to be good as well as Miami Southridge vs Coral Gables. Southridge and Dr. Phillips both seem to be playing some D though.

Offline Dimson

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2016, 03:13:00 PM »
Not where he coaches. Some very good football with some very good staffs with D1 talent all over the place. I was looking at the playoff bracket that Joe coaches in and you see teams like Apopka and Manatee giving up big points. Very interesting quarter finals games coming up btw. Vero Beach vs Dr. Phillips ought to be good as well as Miami Southridge vs Coral Gables. Southridge and Dr. Phillips both seem to be playing some D though.
It wasn't just that APK lost, it is how they lost. They blew a lead in the 4th Quarter.

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2016, 03:16:33 PM »
maybe they are not what you think they are?

Huh?
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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2016, 04:41:52 PM »

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2016, 04:54:32 PM »
R

Funny you say that about DP, I was talking to Jeff today about the very same thing. DP clearly has the best D in the area. Meeks is back & has been playing well. Vero has 3 D1 LBs, it should be a war.

Joe
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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2016, 11:40:43 PM »
R

Funny you say that about DP, I was talking to Jeff today about the very same thing. DP clearly has the best D in the area. Meeks is back & has been playing well. Vero has 3 D1 LBs, it should be a war.

Joe

Vero is one of those teams that is always good no matter what. I'm sure Jeff told you he played for Lenny in hs.

Offline Michael

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2016, 12:22:13 AM »
I think offenses are becoming really good at isolating defenders -- not necessarily in picking on a particular guy, although there's some of that, but on making sure only one guy has a shot at making the play -- and that puts on a ton of pressure on defenses to have solid guys at every position who nail their assignments every time.

And defensive coaches are having a really difficult time, either because they are unaware or because they are just not good at it, in going from an eleven-guys-on-the-ball mentality to a everyone-has-to-nail-their-assignment mentality. Obviously, there's overlap between the two, but something has to be emphasized most, and I see a lot of big plays where someone's out of position and gets burned. I see it in youth, and I see it in the top level of high school. Everything would have been fine except some kid bit or some kid freelanced for two steps. And ten years ago, offenses wouldn't have made the defense pay, but now it goes for 70.

I think defensives coaches tend to be really good at teaching aggression, but not many are really good at making sure the LBs and DBs take the right steps and reads every single snap. And nowadays the offenses are causing the premium to be on the latter rather than on the former.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 12:31:06 AM by Michael »
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Offline bignose

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2016, 10:37:06 AM »
The question posed: Is defense dead?

There is no easy answer for this.
Certainly offenses have become more explosive in the past 10 years with the advent of the various flavors of Spread systems filtering down to the High School level.
Back when I started coaching, a lot longer ago than I care to admit, if you scored 3 TDs in a game, you would win 75% of your games. Score 4 TDs and you'd win 95% of your games.

These days, as Joe has mentioned, at least in his league, not so much. In my league, the 4 score rule still holds pretty much true.

My league and State is a bit different than the style and talent level that Joe sees in Florida, here in the mid Atlantic,  the weather is not as conducive to year round outdoor football.

But still, to generalize, the skill level of the athletes has significantly increased in the past 10-15 years or so.

Used to be, we would see only 2-3 QBs in a 10 game schedule, who were good enough to win games just throwing the ball. More like we would see 6-7 running backs who could take over a game.
Now a days, that has changed: we'll see 4-5 QBs every year who can "get the job done." (we will also see a couple of teams who run the Spread systems without having "that" kid at QB and they get their butts whipped on a weekly basis. Offensive selection from those teams implies "wishful thinking" on the coach's part).

We are seeing about 1/2 of the teams in our league running some Spread concepts, but we also see, Wing T, Gun Wing T, and one or two Power I teams.

Football offenses always tend to be a bit ahead of the defenses, it's part of the evolution of the game.
Then defense catches up, and the cycle repeats itself.
I saw this with the introduction of the Wing T, the I formation, and the Bone/Veer option attacks.
Now it's the Spread.
As younger, new coaches come into the profession, their experience is much more oriented to the Spread.


« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 10:40:34 AM by bignose »
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Offline MHcoach

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Re: Is Defense Dead?
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2016, 11:14:50 AM »
BN

Every district game except 1 & that was a hurricane make up game, you needed at least 35 to win. Some games that wasn't near enough. Every QB on the 7 teams in our district could hurt you in the air or on the ground. In our non district games, 1 QB is an Alabama commit, 1 is a Bowling Green commit, & 1 a USF commit.

Add into this mix almost no one huddles, even the flex bone team sugar huddles. The number of snaps a game is just way up. 3 1/2 hours to play a HS game is insane. We saw 8 teams running a version of Spread or Spread option, 1 Flex bone & 1 Wing T. The playoff game I went to last week had 9 lead changes in the second half, 7 in the 4th qtr.

Many years we preached no runs over 15 yds & no passes over 20. I can not think of a game this year without a run or pass over 60. Last weeks playoff game had 6 or 7 plays more than 60. Second & third level tackling seems to be a thing of the past. Arm tackles are the norm, & most aren't very good at that.

Now, here is thing, I know on my team coaching was the biggest issue on the defensive side. I have another post talking about that. Several of the teams however have defensive staffs that are very good. Coaches that have been in place, & really can coach. Yet their teams really struggled on that side of the ball.

Joe
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