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Author Topic: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line  (Read 310 times)

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Offline gumby_in_co

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Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« on: November 13, 2017, 04:12:31 PM »
So in the first half of our Championship game, we came out in our 40 front and might as well have been the paper banner that we run through in pre-game. O-line was cutting us and doing it very effectively. They were eating our lunch between the tackles. When the didn't cut, they ran us because we were too worried about getting cut.

Mahonz went fire and brimstone at halftime and told them to stop complaining about being cut because they weren't being cut. I beg to differ, LOL. Their cut blocking was making me jealous. Anyway, we shifted back to our base 30 front and that worked for some reason that escapes me. Our DC said that it's because we had so many guys at the 2nd level who could now read and see the ball. Okay, but it's our d-line that are making all the tackles now. Whatever. On the 2nd offensive play of the 3rd quarter, they got flagged for an illegal chop (legit) and from then on, the cutting stopped.

Long story to ask what some of you teach d-linemen to counter cut blocks. In this case, it wasn't limited to cutting off backside pursuit.  Just curious what some of you guys teach to counter a legal block below the waist.
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Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 04:46:34 PM »
I usually take half rounds or full rounds and do drills with the DL to get them used to pushing down on the cutter with force.  We will have them going to a target either left or right with a coach swing the dummy hard at their knees.  Defender gets his hands pushing down on the dummy (hard) while going for the target. 

We sometimes have a call where we move our DT's one step off the line to give them a better option to do that if the cut is immediate and at the line. 

Offline mahonz

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 05:10:39 PM »
So in the first half of our Championship game, we came out in our 40 front and might as well have been the paper banner that we run through in pre-game. O-line was cutting us and doing it very effectively. They were eating our lunch between the tackles. When the didn't cut, they ran us because we were too worried about getting cut.

Mahonz went fire and brimstone at halftime and told them to stop complaining about being cut because they weren't being cut. I beg to differ, LOL. Their cut blocking was making me jealous. Anyway, we shifted back to our base 30 front and that worked for some reason that escapes me. Our DC said that it's because we had so many guys at the 2nd level who could now read and see the ball. Okay, but it's our d-line that are making all the tackles now. Whatever. On the 2nd offensive play of the 3rd quarter, they got flagged for an illegal chop (legit) and from then on, the cutting stopped.

Long story to ask what some of you teach d-linemen to counter cut blocks. In this case, it wasn't limited to cutting off backside pursuit.  Just curious what some of you guys teach to counter a legal block below the waist.

I gave Brian the key....tilt with the power foot away from the football. Maybe not enough reps in practice?

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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 09:01:16 PM »
There are 3 Cut Blocks! 

1) a Proper one that gets backside shoulder across the defenders body above the knee.
2) a crappy attempt which amounts to nothing more than diving (Leap Frogging) at the DL shins
3) the intentional and should be illegal cutting out the legs from behind! 

1 and 2 are somewhat defenseable

3) Meet me in the parking lot! 

#1 to enact a good Cut block I must get across the defenders body,  Ergo I have to get off ASAP and Assume the defender will be there to Cut.  Usually a short slide step and quick Zone Step into the path.   

As a defender if they are using this with regularity, I need to take that first step and hesitate to allow the OLmen to get over extended over his toes and shove him in the direction he's going.  Worse case I shove his hips into the ground! 

#2 Leap Froggers make Easy Door Mats.  Quick Jump Back, Drive their shoulders into the ground and use their A$$ as a Welcome Mat. 

#3 is just plain lazy or coached!  I leaned towards coached.  Its dirty pool! 

The plan to go to a 30 front and move guys off the LOS was Outstanding!  Cant Cut the Second level!   
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Offline rozelle25

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2017, 08:16:25 AM »
In our 40 front we frequently run pinch and slant woith our DT's so those angles made for a difficult cut. we would also play our DT's in a 2 pt with hands out. we were small so our DT's could be LB's for bigger teams.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2017, 10:12:48 AM »

1) a Proper one that gets backside shoulder across the defenders body above the knee.
2) a crappy attempt which amounts to nothing more than diving (Leap Frogging) at the DL shins
3) the intentional and should be illegal cutting out the legs from behind! 

None of #3. For the most part, it was the C and RT cutting flexed and slanted 2s and 6s. OL would pretty much execute a hybrid of #1 and #2. Backside shoulder across for sure, but they would hit the ground and sort of execute a shoulder roll. Not the illegal "roll up" kind, though. It looked more like our guys just tripping over the OLs carcasses while being overly aggressive. I like the aggression, but damn. How many times do you have to face plant before you do something different?

In the 2nd half, we came out in our 30 front, which is 404 vs a symmetrical formation, which is all this team ran.

Center tried to cut our zero (who had a rough first half as a slanted 2). Now, our zero was credit card depth and head up on the C. He simply let the C hit the deck, stepped over him and made a solo tackle for no gain on an off tackle play. This kid is the DL coach's son, so it's possible he got coached up at half time. I'll find out.

They only cut one more time, early in the 4th and were called for an illegal chop. After that, they stopped. Down/distance and being down by by 4 scores may have influenced them to stop cutting

Any ideas as to why a zero tech at credit card depth has no problem vs a cut block compared to the same kid playing a flexed and slanted 2 tech?

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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2017, 10:26:22 AM »
The fact that the DL is on top of the OL indicates to my pea brain that the OL does not have time to establish the block before being contacted by the Defender.  Furthermore it may also indicate that the "Slant Call" was over used??

A flexed DT or DE allows the OL more time.

Just spit balling.
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Offline Ronin

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2017, 11:55:23 AM »
So, we faced a cutting TE in our championship game last night.  Saw it ahead of time in film, so was able to prep the DE somewhat.  First of all, the flexed DE technique in the Killer Bee (great defense, btw) pretty much took care of it.  Also, was able to prep my DEs so they were not caught off guard and inadvertently taken out of the game (by way of knee injury).  My DEs are my biggest kids.  The one that lined up against the "superman" cut blocking TE is like 5'10" (at 11 years old).  Pretty much told him to take his first step high, expecting the TE to be diving for his shins.  Don't engage him, because his job is to engage the OT and stop the off tackle.  If he happens to step on the TE, so be it (but no stomping the kid 6 feet into the ground).  Worked.  DE was not once affected by this.  In fact, they pretty much took out a blocker by him diving to the ground play after play.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 02:59:50 PM »
Had a side conversation with Mahonz and his diagnosis is that our guys simply pulled their heads out of their asses at half time, which actually makes a lot of sense. Flexed, our big dummies took a step and thought "Gee, no one is here to block me" and continued on their merry way until (splat!) "What happened?". Lather, rinse repeat. 3rd quarter I guess they got tired of picking field turf pellets out of their teeth. The illegal chop was unavoidable (by our guy). Our guy is ripping through the C, when a guard submarines him.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2017, 03:50:05 PM »
Had a side conversation with Mahonz and his diagnosis is that our guys simply pulled their heads out of their asses at half time, which actually makes a lot of sense. Flexed, our big dummies took a step and thought "Gee, no one is here to block me" and continued on their merry way until (splat!) "What happened?". Lather, rinse repeat. 3rd quarter I guess they got tired of picking field turf pellets out of their teeth. The illegal chop was unavoidable (by our guy). Our guy is ripping through the C, when a guard submarines him.

Just my theory and for me... it goes back to playing a true NG position. These defenses are just better than those that dont not employ a NG. I think they mishandled the snap on the first play of the 3rd Q because our NG's are flippin' bully boys.

Plus our 40 front is sameness....our 30 front is not. Lesson re-learned....sameness is death. Our 30 front is continually showing different techs. Add to that we rarely used our 40 front so I believe the kids are more comfortable playing a 30 front. I think because we were playing a pretty serious power football team we overthunk things.

Next season its back to the DC46 Lite. Much easier teach.  :)
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Offline ZACH

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2017, 04:36:26 PM »
We usually hit an o lineman not looking at us.

If we are gapped we shoot leg closest to our outside shoulder. We this shin split...low gap rush technique is base rush for us

Head up we slant into the man in the direction we slant

As far as how we prevent from getting chopped we fire with a loaded swing similiar to shoulder blocking or gun singer tackling. During this we teach helmet slap (i know its illegal) but easentially we try to rip the head off the blocker in a very violent way that they won't cut again.

We teach this in camp every year for 1 practice and if we scout cutters we go over it every day.

2nd point if they are all cutting just back off the line entirely put everyone on 2 feet amd tellem to wait for the stutter flop/ chop then go.

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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2017, 04:56:10 PM »
During this we teach helmet slap (i know its illegal) but easentially we try to rip the head off the blocker in a very violent way that they won't cut again.

Yeah, not for me.

Quote
2nd point if they are all cutting just back off the line entirely put everyone on 2 feet amd tellem to wait for the stutter flop/ chop then go.

At most, 2 guys cutting on the same play. C and T.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2017, 04:57:55 PM »
I think they mishandled the snap on the first play of the 3rd Q because our NG's are flippin' bully boys.

Aaron did say that the C was very weak.

Quote
Next season its back to the DC46 Lite. Much easier teach.  :)

I know how you feel about planning, but what say we plan out a multi-year progression to the 353?
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2017, 05:19:45 PM »

I know how you feel about planning, but what say we plan out a multi-year progression to the 353?

Step One. The DC46 LITE.  :)

If you are thinking JJ's stack attack....what I dont like about JJ's stack attack with Smurfs...everyone runs sweeps and the really good teams run sweeps really well so 6 attacking vertical at the snap from tackle to tackle is not playing the odds.

You all did that with the last group of Smurfs and you were losing games 19-14 while giving up negative yards.

-180 yards for 30 plays.....+150 yards in 3 plays = net -30 in yards total but 18 points on the score board. -30 nets yards for me is a shutout.

It happens to us when we call Blizzard. Sometimes its -5....sometimes its +15. For me its a Defense that relies too much on overpowering a backfield. This isnt going to happen consistently vs the top teams. You must have a D that NATURALLY sets the EDGE consistently vs all teams. There is no better D at doing this than the 46. No Spill. No Kill. Funnel.... everything. That is playing the odds with the Smurfs.

And when I say NATURALLY that means no one is thinking....just doing.

Go back and watch all those 3rd grade games I posted all season.

DC46 LITE. Gave up just over 100 points in 11 games which for me is stellar when you consider how many accidental TD's are given up at the Smurf level.
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Cut blocking - counter techniques for D-line
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2017, 10:08:01 PM »
Depends partly on the type of cut technique & partly on how accurate your anticipation of being cut is.  If the likelihood of your being cut on a given down is low, it doesn't pay to anticipate being cut, because it cuts down your own rush too much to counter it.  In other words, it may simply pay to play the dummy & face plant on occasion for the good of the overall team defense.

Defeating a below-the-waist block of other than the scramble type is just a matter of taking advantage of gravity & time.  Your object is to stay up until the blocker's no longer in your way.  Use your hands to ride the blocker backwards, hopping off the ground to keep from being undercut.  The blocker is going down while you're landing on your feet, & can then simply step over him.  The weight of your hands on his back is probably not going to push him down any faster, so disengage in time to not go down w him.

The toughest cut technique to defeat is a crab block, cross body at the waist.  About the only suggestion I have is to beat the blocker past his head or past his tush (& over his legs).  He can't see you, so be where he's not.  If he's good at crabbing, the hands technique described above will require you to jump so far back, it hardly pays.

Someone attempting a scramble block, bear- or hands-&-knees crawling towards you (rather than across your path) is not hard to step around.  Then hands-&-hop technique won't work vs. him because he's not going down, since he has supporting points under him.  So sidestep him; he can't change directions easily.  However, a team coaching that type of block may figure they've done their job just by making you look down, losing sight of the ball.