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Author Topic: DE Play  (Read 3532 times)

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Offline mahonz

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2017, 11:19:56 PM »
We faced a flex -bone team with big split's like that what you got  twins to backside TE and STRONG I Rt ?

Yes
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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #76 on: May 18, 2017, 11:22:33 PM »
IMHO his mistake was chasing the Split

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline Coach Correa

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #77 on: May 18, 2017, 11:41:02 PM »
This is a curious statement. The team in blue in this picture runs a 53 and they do so very well. They are not big but they are flippin' nasty and ridiculously fast.

They always struggle with our splits. We seem to really get into their heads. How would this effect your front?...if at all?

 
We will man over the front (meaning we will move interior 3 a man over )leave our Mike at 10 tech and Sam at 40 tech the Anchor end will play an ability alignment 9 tech and and rush end will play his 5 tech. Jack backer will play over #2 with zone integrity seem curl flat - corner to that side will be inside leverage of #1 in his 3rd- Falcon will play center field and other corner will stay outside leverage of #1 strong side there's a couple different way's i can get 6 to your 4 even with the double team of my nose.
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Offline Coach Correa

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #78 on: May 18, 2017, 11:43:41 PM »
Not mention i got fast support and an alley player either way plus my 40 tech dog can run free on your BC.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 11:47:08 PM by Coach Correa »
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Offline jrk5150

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #79 on: May 19, 2017, 08:06:43 AM »
Here's another 1 even in the 4-4 the DE's got to get a piece of the TE

?? - what does that have to do with anything in this thread?  The DE in a 4-4 is playing a completely different position. He's far closer to a standard DT than a DE at the youth level.  He's in a 6 tech, the TE is his job...

It's really not a difficult concept.  If you're in a traditional youth defense where you have a stand-up DE who's outside shade on the TE, and you have your DE messing with my TE, it is going to be a really long day for you.  Can it work against a team that has the TE blocking the DE?  Yes.  I NEVER have my TE block that DE.  So if he's stepping into the TE to chuck him, then he's out of position on sweep.  He can't play outside in with TE responsibilities. He MIGHT be able to play force, don't know.  Doubt it, not against a straight sweep that's trying to get outside of him from the snap, not if he's wasting a step on the TE...

Offline Coach Correa

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #80 on: May 19, 2017, 08:30:41 AM »
?? - what does that have to do with anything in this thread?  The DE in a 4-4 is playing a completely different position. He's far closer to a standard DT than a DE at the youth level.  He's in a 6 tech, the TE is his job...

It's really not a difficult concept.  If you're in a traditional youth defense where you have a stand-up DE who's outside shade on the TE, and you have your DE messing with my TE, it is going to be a really long day for you.  Can it work against a team that has the TE blocking the DE?  Yes.  I NEVER have my TE block that DE.  So if he's stepping into the TE to chuck him, then he's out of position on sweep.  He can't play outside in with TE responsibilities. He MIGHT be able to play force, don't know.  Doubt it, not against a straight sweep that's trying to get outside of him from the snap, not if he's wasting a step on the TE...
Whatever you say bro this is how we do it and will continue to do it weather you think it can be done or not  we've had seasons were we only given up 1td , 3 tds, and 6 tds and that's at 8th grade AYF  Big Boy Circuit playing defense the wrong way according to you.
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Offline Coach Correa

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #81 on: May 19, 2017, 08:34:20 AM »
It's funny there's 2 other guys on this same thread that have a lot more Coaching experience than me tell you same thing as me but your write it's laughable....I must ask How many times you taken down Central Mass PW ? How many times have you played for a regional ? How many trips to Florida have you made ?
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Offline calcoach

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #82 on: May 19, 2017, 08:44:21 AM »
I am enjoying this thread immensely. It is a great debate and offers a lot of insight into how to play your DE.


Offline Coach Correa

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #83 on: May 19, 2017, 09:14:09 AM »
?? - what does that have to do with anything in this thread?  The DE in a 4-4 is playing a completely different position. He's far closer to a standard DT than a DE at the youth level.  He's in a 6 tech, the TE is his job...

It's really not a difficult concept.  If you're in a traditional youth defense where you have a stand-up DE who's outside shade on the TE, and you have your DE messing with my TE, it is going to be a really long day for you.  Can it work against a team that has the TE blocking the DE?  Yes.  I NEVER have my TE block that DE.  So if he's stepping into the TE to chuck him, then he's out of position on sweep.  He can't play outside in with TE responsibilities. He MIGHT be able to play force, don't know.  Doubt it, not against a straight sweep that's trying to get outside of him from the snap, not if he's wasting a step on the TE...
Were is he wasting a step hes stepping with his outside ft which is back inside ft up outside shade of TE as he steps towards  deepest back or FB dependent on formatiin he's jabbing TE than playing football. In a 1x1x1x1 area.
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Offline jrk5150

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #84 on: May 19, 2017, 09:36:09 AM »
It's funny there's 2 other guys on this same thread that have a lot more Coaching experience than me tell you same thing as me but your write it's laughable....I must ask How many times you taken down Central Mass PW ? How many times have you played for a regional ? How many trips to Florida have you made ?

Seriously?  That's where you're going with this?

Whatever.  I'm not going to engage with you by trying to tear you down to make a point. You're a good coach.  You're also a big fish in a very small pond. How you would translate into an actual big boy circuit, meaning outside of New England, who knows? You can only beat the teams you play.

But I'll tell you what, you're not going to get anywhere by stating or implying you're a better coach than I am - that's not really a high bar to shoot for.  I mean, that puts you in an elite group with just a few thousand other coaches.

I will keep my point very small and limited to this - if you think you can have your DE both engage the TE AND play outside-in keeping some level of contain...go nuts.  Never seen it actually happen, no matter who types what on a message board.  I offered to admit I'm wrong if I see it on film.  Whether someone else believes me or doesn't, I don't care.  I'm offering my opinion.  I've never claimed it was worth all that much.

Offline mahonz

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #85 on: May 19, 2017, 09:40:26 AM »
We will man over the front (meaning we will move interior 3 a man over )leave our Mike at 10 tech and Sam at 40 tech the Anchor end will play an ability alignment 9 tech and and rush end will play his 5 tech. Jack backer will play over #2 with zone integrity seem curl flat - corner to that side will be inside leverage of #1 in his 3rd- Falcon will play center field and other corner will stay outside leverage of #1 strong side there's a couple different way's i can get 6 to your 4 even with the double team of my nose.

Seems logical. We see some teams do odd stuff so I was just curious. Hard to say why they do what they do but at times we see some ginormous bubbles. . Thanks.
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Offline jrk5150

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #86 on: May 19, 2017, 09:53:16 AM »
Were is he wasting a step hes stepping with his outside ft which is back inside ft up outside shade of TE as he steps towards  deepest back or FB dependent on formatiin he's jabbing TE than playing football. In a 1x1x1x1 area.

Then how does that even remotely disrupt the TE?  What's the point of even doing that, other than it allows him to more easily engage a TE who's trying to block him?  Which in and of itself might be a decent reason to do it, since a lot of offenses have that TE blocking the DE.

Let's just step back - if I'm a TE, I'm going to do one of 3 things.  I'm going to release to second level for a pass or second level block, I'm going to block down, or I'm going to try to block the DE.

If I'm releasing, in order to disrupt me, he's going to have to do more than just jab me on the way to the deepest back/FB/whatever the next assignment is. He's going to have to put some oomph into it to do anything to impact my path/assignment. And that is going to occupy him for at least a step or two while he's trying to impede/move me off my path.

If I'm blocking down, then he has to step down with me to even touch me.  And again, he's not going to disrupt me in any way from blocking the DT or tracking to the ILB/MLB without stepping down with me.

If I'm blocking the DE, then we have one of two situations - running B/C gap so I'm trying to keep him where he is, or sweep where I'm trying to reach him. If we're running B/C gap, then I'm okay with a stalemate.  So if he's just giving me some kind of two hand shiver while reading the play, then he's at a relative disadvantage because I'm not doing anything but focusing on keeping him right where he is. Now, if I'm trying to reach him, then advantage him.  NOW he has outside leverage on the guy trying to block him for sweep, and he can contain/force that play more easily.

So of the 4 things I can do as a TE, how does what you're saying work on anything but the 4th thing?

Now, if you're swapping contain with the OLB like Potter mentioned, then okay.  But now you're not doing what we're talking about in the first place.

« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 09:56:30 AM by jrk5150 »

Offline Coach Correa

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #87 on: May 19, 2017, 10:12:13 AM »
I will do a live stream on this subject and and let you se big picture from a static chalk talk maybe were both missing something here...And last I checked as a Coach were judged on those things mentioned above but love the kick back and encourage it so if I offended you my bad ..But those were honest ?s.
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Offline jrk5150

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #88 on: May 19, 2017, 10:16:08 AM »
For all I know, everything we're talking about is so offensive formation dependent that we'll end up saying the same thing.  Again, why I wanted to avoid really getting into it, but I was weak...

Offline Coach Correa

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Re: DE Play
« Reply #89 on: May 19, 2017, 02:08:04 PM »
I think i maybe not painting a clear enough picture were a 5-3 Stack team were we play with a zero and two 4's up front a 10 and two 40's in the stack in our base. Dependent on alignment's THING'S CAN VARY Hence Why it's called Multiple 50 Stack. We will have a 9 to the strength and a 5 to the nub in a generic alignment. Our falcon is splitting 1's or can shade the strength according to game plan. Corners will leverage inside our outside in a half turn dependent on were those 1's are( we don't pedal) in retrospect to the divider so  those seems don't get to big for our falcon. Now our two end's Mike and falcon have to be CATS my next best best CAT Football iq guy play's Will who is our adjuster who can move back in cover 4  or we can detach him and play a monster look or move him up front to play our version of 6-2 or 6-5 Goal Line. Oue defense is built to take away middle of the field via run or pass and were gonna give you the flat and deep outside but you won't sweep   or beat me down the seems i don't believe in covering grass so we pattern match and re route number # 2 always and try to stay on top of all vertical routes there's a little more to it but hope  this help's once you explain this to your Coach'es putting it in is as easy as pie. We got four stunt's and 3 coverage's maybe. You also have to understand we slant and angle and pinch loop so in theory we have divided our forces getting our reads from the o-line as they give away the play faster than anyone.  So we have penetrators and reader's you lie with your guard's i may lose 1 and got an extra 1 coming hope that make's sense.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 02:14:14 PM by Coach Correa »
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Danbury Hatters 14-U
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