Author Topic: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense  (Read 3675 times)

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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2017, 10:56:34 PM »
I wish I had the answer DP. It's our Boards Policy.

I think I'd find the answer.

Regardless, it makes little sense  to go by a set of "rules" that none of your opponents go by.

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Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2017, 09:06:12 AM »
We did at PSL for years. We had a whole other set of rules that other teams did not. Probably pretty common.

Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2017, 09:19:29 AM »
I think I'd find the answer.

Regardless, it makes little sense  to go by a set of "rules" that none of your opponents go by.

--Dave

Agree on finding out the answer. 

However, the org may look at equal playing time for certain age groups as being a differentiator (in a good way).  I have seen some orgs say that the minimum play numbers are too small and they want all of their kids to get more than the league mandated minimum.  50/50 is a little tough to saddle a coach with, though. 

Offline Vikecoach26

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2017, 09:27:06 AM »
Our 4th grade is 50/50
Our 5th grade is they are guaranteed to play but not 50/50
Our 6th grade is you are not guaranteed at all

So I guess it gets better each year.

I have no problem coaching up those kids that work hard but just don't have the talent but we have a handful that tell us they don't want to play and it's the parents basically making them....hmm?

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2017, 10:09:09 AM »
A) Why do you want to clog the A-gaps?

B) He's responsible for taking on a double-team from either Guard?  Why do you want him to get double-teamed?

--Dave

I'll play.

A) IF I had the right guy AND he was able to post a center and cover both A gaps, I just bought myself an "extra" defender, whether I make him a Freak, Monster, Rover, extra LB, Nickel Back . . . whatever. And that's IF I wanted to do that.

B) One way to look at double teams is the offense using two guys to block one. Since Offense starts with a 11-10 disadvantage in a BEST case scenario (11-9 in most offenses), a double team whittles that down to 10-9 or 10-8. But, that's ASSuming you can neutralize a double team. To this day, I haven't been able to convince a player to "grab grass" when they feel a double team. I have had kids big and strong enough that most teams couldn't move him with 2.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2017, 11:29:57 AM »
I'll play.

--Finally!  Thank you, Lar.

A) IF I had the right guy AND he was able to post a center and cover both A gaps, I just bought myself an "extra" defender, whether I make him a Freak, Monster, Rover, extra LB, Nickel Back . . . whatever. And that's IF I wanted to do that.

--Okay, I see what you're saying.

B) One way to look at double teams is the offense using two guys to block one. Since Offense starts with a 11-10 disadvantage in a BEST case scenario (11-9 in most offenses), a double team whittles that down to 10-9 or 10-8. But, that's ASSuming you can neutralize a double team. To this day, I haven't been able to convince a player to "grab grass" when they feel a double team. I have had kids big and strong enough that most teams couldn't move him with 2.

--I'm good with trading 2-for-1.  If the offense wants to block my defender using 2 guys, I like those numbers.  I just wanted to know why he did what he did.  Thanks for playing!  ;)

----A while back I was on the phone with a coach and I asked him why he was teaching something a certain way(?)
Him: Is it wrong?
Me: I'm asking why you do it.
Him: Should I not do it?
Me: I didn't say that.  I'm asking you why you do it that way.  What's the benefit?
Him: I don't know, but it's in the book to do it that way.

Which is really my point.  If you do something a certain way and someone else asks you "Why?" you do it that way, then simply explain it.  When I watch a youth game and see a team's defensive line in a 4-point stance and their o-line in a 3-point stance and I ask the HC why he does it that way, I usually get "Because those kids in the 4-point are on defense!"  Which is not really an answer, at all.

--Dave


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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2017, 12:04:24 PM »
A lot of negative stuff has been written about John T Reed, but I credit him for setting me on the contrarian path. I've coached a LOT of weird stuff over the years and gotten a lot of push back on it. Kent and I were even lectured by a White Hat after a game for our choice of offense. One thing that has never changed is that I always have a reason for everything we do. Always. Might not be the best reason or it may turn out to be a bad reason, but there's a reason.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2017, 12:29:19 PM »
Kent and I were even lectured by a White Hat after a game for our choice of offense.

Seriously?
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2017, 02:30:20 PM »
Seriously?

Absolutely. We lost fairly handily and he said he respected how hard our kids fight, but we have to teach them an offense that gives them a chance.

If memory serves me, he was a guy that was flagging us for false start when our WB went in motion. When we explained that he's a back in motion, he started aggressively shaking his head "No", then came up with "He can't Pop Up."

Can't do his job (that he's paid for), but wants to tell us how to do our (that we do for free).
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 02:32:54 PM by gumby_in_co »
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #54 on: September 13, 2017, 02:37:02 PM »
Absolutely. We lost fairly handily and he said he respected how hard our kids fight, but we have to teach them an offense that gives them a chance.

If memory serves me, he was a guy that was flagging us for false start when our WB went in motion. When we explained that he's a back in motion, he started aggressively shaking his head "No", then came up with "He can't Pop Up."

Can't do his job (that he's paid for), but wants to tell us how to do our (that we do for free).

Crazy.

I've had one White Hat comment on the Offense we were running.

Back in our UBSW days. We were a very good spin team and he was really enjoying it and was kind enough to say so.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline ZACH

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2018, 03:28:31 PM »
Giving up the edge in youth comes down to BMJs points

Primary contain
Secondary contain
Alley
Push

Who has contain primarily, who back that guy up, who goes for the big shot who pushes the runner into contain/alley.

Going over "run fits" vs base plays really goes along way

Second is just pursuit...gotta run to tackle...cant tackle walking or standing still
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Offline Coach Correa

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2018, 11:16:57 AM »
Here's Amauri Pena one of our OLBERS Spur Types not the biggest guy but watch...https://youtu.be/TGLg4ezPQXQ
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Offline 32wedge

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2018, 12:57:22 PM »
Here's Amauri Pena one of our OLBERS Spur Types not the biggest guy but watch...https://youtu.be/TGLg4ezPQXQ

Wow!  That kid is a Football Player!


Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2018, 01:23:09 PM »
Here's Amauri Pena one of our OLBERS Spur Types not the biggest guy but watch...https://youtu.be/TGLg4ezPQXQ

Man, I love that type of player. Doesn't look like much, but underestimate him at your peril.
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Offline ZACH

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Re: Player Placement in a 5-3 Defense
« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2018, 09:57:14 AM »
BMJ posted this and i use it as a referance everytime this topic comes up. Now its based on a 40 defense, easily adaptable to a 50.


8 BASIC PRINCIPLES OF A SOUND RUN DEFENSE:

(These must be ASSIGNED, & understood, in EACH defense)

I. FIRST CONTAIN (PLAYSIDE OLB in base 4-2-5): 1) Outside-in support on the wide play. 2) Take on lead blocker on sweeps and options. Normally responsible for pitch on option.

II. SECOND CONTAIN (playside Corner in base 4-2-5): - 1) Widest man in defense by alignment. 2) Never let ball carrier outside of you. 3) Responsible for the one-out pass. 4) Secondary support always from outside-in.

III. ALLEY (F/S in base 4-2-5): - 1. Fill inside Contain if ball cuts up.

IV. FORCE (playside DE in base 4-2-5): - 1) Normally takes QB on option and sprint or roll out. 2) Squeeze from outside-in the off tackle-hole on play inside. 3) Inside-out support on wide play.

V. TRAIL (backside DE in base 4-2-5: - 1) Responsible for bootlegs, counters, and reverses when ball starts away.

VI. CUTBACK (ILBers & backside OLB in base 4-2-5): - 1) Responsible for cutback when ball starts away - do not overrun.

VII. GAP RESPONSIBILITY AND PURSUIT (DLM in base 4-2-5): - Interior of defense given gap responsibility and down the line of scrimmage pursuit.

VIII. DEEP PURSUIT (backside Corner in base 4-2-5): - On play away you are the last man in our pattern. You must take a proper course (different from every play) that will enable you to make the play if no one else does.




"When a coach said hes going back to fundamentals it usually follows...I just got my butt kicked" - random

"Some athletes have division dreams and jv work ethic" - random