Consider helping MosleyTheCat keep the web hosting hamsters fed and happy. Please Donate.

Author Topic: Coaching aggression  (Read 8699 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24079
  • Total likes: 2421
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #105 on: December 11, 2018, 02:49:19 PM »
Scott, spoken like a true Aggression-Whisperer.  I still get phone calls/texts/emails about the DRILLS.  "Dave, send me the DRILLS!" As if the drills were the plug-and-play magic bullet elixir that any coach can use.  I got news for ya.  It ain't the drill, but how you teach.  If you can't teach, then this won't work.  We all have certain strengths as coaches, and we all have Achilles heels.  For whatever reason, something we've always done well is taught the physicality/aggression/intensity component of football to youth, middle and high school teams.  In my early years, we taught it well without being acutely aware of cause & effect, or the mathematics and application of it.  In other words, when I was asked "how" we were getting the results of what we were getting, I didn't have a quick and ready response because it wasn't something I'd thought about.  In my mind, I was just coaching football.  So after getting so many questions about our approach, I began to put the nuts and bolts of it together: what we did/how we did/why we did.  Which gave me an even greater appreciation of how little it was about the "drill," and how much of it was our understanding of teaching.  Sharing our approach with other coaches demonstrated some success with their programs, as well.  I don't believe anyone adapted our P.A.I.N! Program as well as Ken Friend, whose teams were so physical it dwarfed even what we were doing with our teams.  On the other end, it has become a nightmare of sorts when coaches think they are teaching our philosophy but couldn't be any further off the mark.  We get (what I hesitate to call) "coaches" who use a TYFA-approach and believe that toughening up your players has to do with foul language, insulting tactics and other negative applications.  I am not that kind of coach and never have been.  The discussion has always been something of a prickly point, as some coaches swear that it's only about the talent you have, whether the kids are from the "inner city," or whether you are a demon for even claiming to teach Mojo.  Mike Mahoney and myself have both been subject of the slings and arrows that come our way from teaching a "hit to hurt" approach.   At the same time safety has always been paramount to us, and I have to laugh when I see all the hoopla over Seahawks/Rugby/Rocky Seto/Pete Carroll tackling when we have not only been teaching shoulder tackling forever, but also KOTS tackling which I also see as being touted as some sort of Seattle Seahawks-development. 

--Dave

Your drills are a pretty good start for the average Joe.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline CoachDP

  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 18182
  • Total likes: 4304
  • "Want to Get Better Players? Be A Better Coach."
    • Coach Dave Potter
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Double Wing
  • Title: Assistant
Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #106 on: December 11, 2018, 02:53:49 PM »
Your drills are a pretty good start for the average Joe.

But don't assume that because you have a drill, that you now know what to do with it, or how to apply it.  As I said, there are still idiots out there who line up their players 15-yards apart simply because they weren't getting what they wanted at 5-yards apart.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24079
  • Total likes: 2421
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #107 on: December 11, 2018, 03:06:46 PM »
But don't assume that because you have a drill, that you now know what to do with it, or how to apply it.  As I said, there are still idiots out there who line up their players 15-yards apart simply because they weren't getting what they wanted at 5-yards apart.

--Dave

No drill will stop the idiots....but your drills do help plenty of others.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline CoachDP

  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 18182
  • Total likes: 4304
  • "Want to Get Better Players? Be A Better Coach."
    • Coach Dave Potter
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Double Wing
  • Title: Assistant
Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #108 on: December 11, 2018, 03:34:48 PM »
No drill will stop the idiots....but your drills do help plenty of others.

Perhaps that's so.  But I'm hoping that coaches will get that it's more about understanding a philosophical approach and application of teaching "how to get what you want," as opposed to looking at a sheet or chart and trying to mimic something.  Anyone can look at a play route and tell the players where to go by following the dotted (or solid) line, but that's not really teaching, is it?  Being able to read a cookbook and follow the directions doesn't make you a chef.  Using the New England Patriots playbook doesn't make you Bill Belichick.  My point is that drills aren't even a starting point in terms of getting what you want.  You have to understand your own personal philosophy of what you're trying to accomplish.  Of course, if you don't really have a personal philosophy or even know what you're trying to accomplish, then while a collection of drills may be a starting point for some, then I've made it easier for you to drive the whole car into the ditch and not understand how you got there.  "Gee, I followed the drills!"

I referenced Ken Friend earlier.  Ken was far more interested in understanding the philosophy of application, as opposed to an actual drill.  In our discussions, Ken took this to a far deeper degree of intellectual understanding and discussion than I had ever experienced.  Through numerous phone calls, he made me think to an even greater depth about what could be accomplished through P.A.I.N!  Heck, he even flew me to Massachusetts twice to get more in depth with it.  Ken took the blueprint from our P.A.I.N! Program, digested it, reinvented it and came out with something that I'm not even sure that I had seen before in terms of on-field physicality.

--Dave
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 09:46:31 AM by CoachDP »
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline CoachDP

  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 18182
  • Total likes: 4304
  • "Want to Get Better Players? Be A Better Coach."
    • Coach Dave Potter
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Double Wing
  • Title: Assistant
Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #109 on: December 11, 2018, 04:40:58 PM »
Aggression, confidence, competition -- they're all fruit of the same tree.
And the process repeats.  Used correctly, it's a stair-stepped approach that can build a frightening amount of self-confidence.

^ This.

Kids who are not confident in themselves, or in their responsibilities or what they've been taught to do, absolutely hate this sport.  Kids who are confident in themselves, or in their responsibilities, or what they've been taught to do love this sport.  Initially, most kids show up falling somewhere in the middle.  And their direction is influenced directly by the coaching that they receive.

--Dave
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 04:51:49 PM by CoachDP »
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24079
  • Total likes: 2421
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #110 on: December 11, 2018, 04:49:55 PM »
Perhaps that's so.  But I'm hoping that coaches will understand that it's more about understanding a philosophical approach and application of teaching "how to get what you want," as opposed to looking at a sheet or chart and trying to mimic something.  Anyone can look at a play route and tell the players where to go by following the dotted (or solid) line, but that's not really teaching, is it?  Being able to read a cookbook and follow the directions doesn't make you a chef.  Using the New England Patriots playbook doesn't make you Bill Belichick.  My point is that drills aren't even a starting point in terms of getting what you want.  You have to understand your own personal philosophy of what you're trying to accomplish.  Of course, if you don't really have a personal philosophy or even know what you're trying to accomplish, then while a collection of drills may be a starting point for some, then I've made it easier for you to drive the whole car into the ditch and not understand how you got there.  "Gee, I followed the drills!"

I referenced Ken Friend earlier.  Ken was far more interested in understanding the philosophy of application, as opposed to an actual drill.  In our discussions, Ken took this to a far deeper degree of intellectual understanding and discussion than I had ever experienced.  Through numerous phone calls, he made me think to an even greater depth about what could be accomplished through P.A.I.N!  Heck, he even flew me to Massachusetts twice to get more in depth with it.  Ken took the blueprint from our P.A.I.N! Program, digested it, reinvented it and came out with something that I'm not even sure that I had seen before in terms of on-field physicality.

--Dave

That said...your drills promote a philosophy.

I think maybe all of this has become natural and the norm for you....you are losing sight of what YOUR lines and dots and words truly mean on that piece of paper.  :)

Basically...you really cant run a Potter Drill without naturally promoting some Potter Ball. Run your drills enough and you will start to see results even if not run to your own standards.

Whose ball will naturally draw some blood more times than not. But so do other drills. Difference being....in those other drills blood is unintentional. In whose ball....well?  ;) ;)

Funny...I rarely run that drill but I live for your gauntlet drill. I am waiting for the day a kid becomes so dis-orientated that he goes backwards back the beginning. Only then will I know we have achieved what that drill was meant to promote.

Haven't quite got there yet....but getting close.   
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline CoachDP

  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 18182
  • Total likes: 4304
  • "Want to Get Better Players? Be A Better Coach."
    • Coach Dave Potter
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Double Wing
  • Title: Assistant
Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #111 on: December 11, 2018, 05:02:30 PM »
Whose ball will naturally draw some blood more times than not. But so do other drills. Difference being....in those other drills blood is unintentional. In whose ball....well?  ;) ;)

You tell me.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline CoachDP

  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 18182
  • Total likes: 4304
  • "Want to Get Better Players? Be A Better Coach."
    • Coach Dave Potter
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Double Wing
  • Title: Assistant
Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #112 on: December 11, 2018, 05:09:26 PM »
That said...your drills promote a philosophy.

--If you say so.  But to me, it isn't my drills that promote the philosophy, but me.

I think maybe all of this has become natural and the norm for you....you are losing sight of what YOUR lines and dots and words truly mean on that piece of paper.  :)

--Maybe.  Probably.

Basically...you really cant run a Potter Drill without naturally promoting some Potter Ball.

--But to me, the so-called "Potter Ball" is everything that we do.  Not just one aspect of what we do.  It certainly isn't just a drill.  Just like "Mojo" isn't just a drill.

Run your drills enough and you will start to see results even if not run to your own standards.

--If you know what you're doing and how to apply.  Everyone thinks they do.  But I've seen differently, first-hand....

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline mahonz

  • Administrator
  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 24079
  • Total likes: 2421
  • No Wimps
  • Coaching: 7 & Under
  • Defense: DC 46
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #113 on: December 11, 2018, 05:46:49 PM »
Fun story about Potter Ball for anyone reading this that might not quite....understand.

About 8 years ago Gumby and my Son were coaching a new team of second graders. There were two other AC's on the Staff that I will refer to as Doofus and Magoo. Doofus was a VERY experienced coach that I knew from the Semi Pro Circuit so he had been around.

I took that year off to clear my brain after being a Board Member for 5 years. I was the film guy.

Anyhoo...the off season prior to that season Dave posted up a video that was made to promote his Youth Organization at the time. It was a marketing tool. It was simple....it was effective....it was Potter Ball.

I showed it to my Son. His response.... We need to be like Dave. This  even though my Son was well into his youth coaching career as a serious Mojo Coach that already understood what it meant. But this...this thing Dave was doing...was at another level.

So off he went. Doofus and Magoo were aghast.

Next season my son moves to a new town and gets a new team so Doofus and Magoo take over his old team going 0-8 while my Sons new team wins a championship.

We played each other 3 times over the years crushing them every time....mentally, physically and on the scoreboard. Eventually they asked about our methods and proceeded to win a championship of their own. I was very happy for them.

Early on all Doofus and Magoo wanted to do was handoff drills and footwork stuff and tackling drills and Sharks and Minnows and blocking drills and and and. All very important stuff but secondary to what really makes a youth football team special.....aggression.  Rip your face off, draw some blood, hit with hate aggression.

Gotta do some Potter Drills if you wanna get to that level of play.  If Dave ever posts up that Video again....Im thinking he will be arrested by the PC Police.  :P



Collect moments, not wins.

Offline CHARLIEDONTSURF

  • Copper
  • Posts: 93
  • Total likes: 42
  • Coaching: 14 & Under
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Multiple
  • Title: Other
Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #114 on: December 11, 2018, 07:57:47 PM »
Perhaps that's so.  But I'm hoping that coaches will understand that it's more about understanding a philosophical approach and application of teaching "how to get what you want," as opposed to looking at a sheet or chart and trying to mimic something.  ***  My point is that drills aren't even a starting point in terms of getting what you want.  You have to understand your own personal philosophy of what you're trying to accomplish.  Of course, if you don't really have a personal philosophy or even know what you're trying to accomplish, then while a collection of drills may be a starting point for some, then I've made it easier for you to drive the whole car into the ditch and not understand how you got there.

It's confirmation bias on my part, but I'm very sympathetic with this.  It's like being asked "Say coach, you got any good plays for 4th and 20?" to which my response is "Yes - don't let yourself get into 4th and 20."  It comes off like sarcasm, but the guy asking doesn't realize my entire offensive philosophy is based on it.  It's not fair of me to say he asked a bad question.  I'm just giving him a next-level answer.  I solve 4th and 20 by how I build and coach my offense, not by calling any one play.  And so my advice may not help him.  It may even hurt him.

Offline CHARLIEDONTSURF

  • Copper
  • Posts: 93
  • Total likes: 42
  • Coaching: 14 & Under
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Multiple
  • Title: Other
Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #115 on: December 11, 2018, 08:49:42 PM »
You tell me.

--Dave

Haha great pics!

About 12 years ago I coached a Kindergarten flag football team.  For drills I kept a second set of flag belts with the flags cut in half.  It made them harder to pull and forced our defense to body up.  One day I faced-off the kids in pairs at 1 yard.  The drill was: "See the guy across from you?  On the whistle, pull his flag before he pulls yours.  If you run away, you lose.  If you leave the circle, you lose.  If you do ANYTHING to avoid having your flag pulled, you lose.  ATTACK HIM AND GET HIS FLAG."

Sounded like a good idea on paper.  First bloody nose happened right away.  Then came a second.  Then two kids banged foreheads and the league director made me 86 the drill haha. :-[

Offline 32wedge

  • Copper
  • Posts: 411
  • Total likes: 179
  • Coaching: Middle School
  • Defense: Killer Bee
  • Offense: Single Wing
  • Title: Head Coach
Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #116 on: December 12, 2018, 11:01:02 AM »
--But to me, the so-called "Potter Ball" is everything that we do.  Not just one aspect of what we do.  It certainly isn't just a drill.  Just like "Mojo" isn't just a drill.

"Potter Ball" requires a Potter; a coach who constantly feeds that level of intensity/aggression to the team. 

A wise old youth football league president told me one time that a team will take on the persona of the head coach.  Coach DP has intense and aggressive teams because he coaches intensity and aggression all the time. 

I do not believe a coach can just flip an switch and imitate that type of intensity.  The team will see right through him.  Either you are intense all the time or you ain't. I tried to use Coach Potter's approach this past season and I believe my team was a little more aggressive than we had been in previous years but we fell well short of a real "Potter ball" team.  There is only one Dave Potter.

I think it is possible to be a more intensive/aggressive coach but you have to train yourself to coach that way and you can't fake it.

Offline CoachDP

  • Kryptonite
  • Posts: 18182
  • Total likes: 4304
  • "Want to Get Better Players? Be A Better Coach."
    • Coach Dave Potter
  • Coaching: 12 & Under
  • Defense: Other
  • Offense: Double Wing
  • Title: Assistant
Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #117 on: December 12, 2018, 12:03:19 PM »
"Potter Ball" requires a Potter; a coach who constantly feeds that level of intensity/aggression to the team. 

A wise old youth football league president told me one time that a team will take on the persona of the head coach.  Coach DP has intense and aggressive teams because he coaches intensity and aggression all the time. 

I do not believe a coach can just flip an switch and imitate that type of intensity.  The team will see right through him.  Either you are intense all the time or you ain't. I tried to use Coach Potter's approach this past season and I believe my team was a little more aggressive than we had been in previous years but we fell well short of a real "Potter ball" team.  There is only one Dave Potter.

I think it is possible to be a more intensive/aggressive coach but you have to train yourself to coach that way and you can't fake it.

Nathan, I certainly believe that's part of it.  You can't imitate someone else and expect to have the same results.  That's why I say, "It's not the drills."  So you have to learn your own personal philosophy; what's important to you and how do you get that importance across to your players(?)  As I said earlier, we all have strengths and weaknesses as coaches.  There are many things I can't do, wouldn't try and certainly couldn't fake successfully.  But for whatever reason, I've always been able to get the physicality/aggressive-thing from the players on our teams.  I've always believed football should be played that way and I coached with a passion and focus that it was what I wanted from my teams, above all else.  Because it was important to me, it was important to my players.  Because I was passionate about football in that way, it also became passionate to our players.  Which is why we've had success with our academic program and also why we run Wedge so well.  There are certain aspects of the game and coaching that I love the most, so we featured them.  Every coach should do that.  Problem is, many can't identify what their particular passion about the game is, or if they can, perhaps it doesn't burn as passionately with them.  It's part of "finding your coaching voice."  It comes with identifying your own particular mission statement as to why you coach.  I think those elements can help any coach "figure out who he is."  I think any successful coach has to know the answer to that.

That's why our P.A.I.N! Program isn't a PowerPoint attachment, but a clinic or at least a phone conversation.  I have to be able to understand if the coach I'm talking with "gets it."  I can send out a drill.  I can post a video.  But only through conversations either one-on-one or in small groups can I see if I am on the right track with getting them to understand what it is that we do and whether they have the capability to implement it.  Ken Friend told me over and over again how difficult he thought it was for the Program to be understood/implemented because it isn't a simple A, B, C, D implementation.  But to me, it was very simple.

I am reminded of a visit to an opponent's practice that I was invited to this year.  I asked him what he wanted to work on; where he wanted to improve(?)  One area was his defensive pursuit, which in my mind is a simple install and an easy fix.  So I did our pursuit drill and one of their coaches jumped in and stopped it (because I guess he thought it was over the top and his ball-carrier would get hurt).  So I did the drill a second time, only to have a different coach jump in and stop the drill. ?!?!  Finally, on my third attempt they allowed the drill to go to fruition and I got what I wanted.  So did his players.  But here was a case of coach saying what he wanted (in this case, pursuit), but when he got it was afraid of it.  So IMO, he thought he knew what he wanted, but really didn't. 

--Dave
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 07:17:21 PM by CoachDP »
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope