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Author Topic: Coaching aggression  (Read 7680 times)

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Offline ZACH

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2018, 04:38:55 PM »
This is from my PowerPoint on Aggression.  While I'll post an excerpt here, it's not for distribution as a PDF or PP.

The P.A.I.N! Program: Physicality, Aggression, Intensity Now!
The Concept of Aggression Development: Philosophy and Approach

I don't know how to teach a player to "Hit someone as hard as you can; Just make sure that you don't hurt him."  I don't know how to coach a player by telling them, "Just give me your best, and whatever that is, it will be enough," because there is no way to quantify what his "best" is.  You'll never win a teaching point if you are "asking for a player's best" or asking for "100%" (whatever that is) because there's no way to quantify it.  If he's not giving you the result you want, but he tells you he is "doing my best," then where do you go from there?  If his "best" wasn't acceptable, yet you've already said, "Just give me your best," then you will confuse the player and are going back on your word if you decide that his best isn't good enough and make the decision to replace him.  If you don't replace him, then you may be stuck with a player on the field who is masquerading by telling you "That's my best," but it really isn't.  There's no way to really quantify what his best is, which is why we never ask for it.  We simply demand that our players "do their job."  If they do their job, then we don't have to worry about what their best is, or being able to quantify it.  On the other hand, we can easily quantify whether they did their job.  "Did you make that tackle?"  Yes, or no?  "Did you allow that receiver to get behind you?" Yes, or no?  It's never about asking for, or being satisfied with a player's "best."

I have witnessed practices where the coach tells the player, "You've got to give me your best on this play."  The player nods in acknowledgment and then misses the tackle.  The coach yells at him for missing the tackle and the player says, "I'm trying as hard as I can."  Who's right?  Did the player give his best?  If he did, then shame on the coach for yelling at him for missing the tackle.  He made the mistake of telling the player, "Give me your best," instead of saying, "Your job is to make the tackle.  Make the tackle."  The former can't be quantified.  The latter can.  We coach with what can be quantified.

So the question becomes, "Did you do you job?"  As coaches, how can we quantify whether the player did it, or not?  By measuring what percentage of effort the player gave?  By whether the player gave their "best?"  By how hard the player "tried?"  Or, by the result?  We measure our player's performance not by something as ambiguous as effort, but by the result.  We teach with the result in mind.

That's why I don't concern myself with telling players to "give me 100%."  I don't care about 100%, or what 100% looks like.  You certainly can't measure it.  It is entirely subjective so there's no point in arguing whether someone is giving their "best."

What you can quantify is whether someone is doing their job, or not.  When it comes to tackling, we quantify the success of their job by two things: Whether their ball-carrier got back up and whether we got the football.  If he got back up, then you didn't hit him hard enough.  You didn't do your job.  If we didn't get the football, then you didn't hit hit him hard enough.  You didn't do your job.  Conversely, if he didn't get back up and/or we got the football, then you did your job.  It's simple.

Effort is not a skill, and anyone can give it.  There isn't a particular quality that we look for in demanding effort from our players.  Great effort can come in any shape, size and age.  Don't make the mistake of thinking you can eyeball a player as to who will have it, or not have it, when it is an entirely teachable component.  Effort is a fundamental.  It is taught like any other fundamental.  And like every fundamental, a coach needs to have expertise in teaching the fundamental, if he expects his players to be sound in that fundamental.  Skill (or talent), on the other hand, is what allows coaches to feature a certain trait.  But we don't rely on our kids already having those traits. 

Can you recognize which players will give effort and which ones won't?  I don't look for it because I know that we will teach it.  Why look for players who are adept at running Wedge, if they haven't run my Wedge?  They will still have to be trained in how I want it done, regardless of whether they've done it before.  If we see that a player already has skilled hands, does that make him a good candidate to be a receiver?  It might, but since "effort" is not a skill, there's nothing to look for.  Especially as it pertains to Aggression Development.  Does everyone develop at the same rate as far as our approach is concerned?  No, but since we are completely uniform in our approach, this results in our all being on the same page.  In other words, the gap between our most aggressive player and our least aggressive player isn't great because of what we teach and the approach we use in teaching it.  We don't have one player that we are afraid to put on the field.  Many coaches can't say the same of their team.

Coaches complain that some players don't want to give effort.  I'll contend that all kids don't want to give the effort that we demand.  There are two reasons for this:  1) They're kids.  2)  It's hard.  Very hard.  Certainly harder than anything they've ever tried to do before.  De La Salle's high school football program is known for many things, such as their effort in coming off the ball at the line of scrimmage.  These are high school kids; not robots or automatons.  They give great effort and giving great effort is hard to do.  And yet their players do it.  Do they have a unique kind of player?  Or do they have a unique kind of coach?

--Dave

@mahonz .. can we sticky this post?

@Dave that is probably the most important and applicable post ive read on this board for years. Wow!
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2018, 04:40:29 PM »
Coaches, in reference to my PowerPoint on Aggression, it is not in a distributable presentation form.  It is assembled for clinic presentation only (whether in person, or over the phone).  And clinics don't ask me to speak.  (Man, I really miss the Double Wing Symposium. lol)  Over the years, I have found that few things have been as misunderstood as my approach to Mojo, the PA.I.N! Program, and our approach to Aggression.  In order to keep that misunderstanding to a minimum, I've found that the best way to talk about what we do is not in this forum, or in a PowerPoint but in a clinic setting, where I have the opportunity to present, discuss, take questions and really help coaches to understand our process.  I've learned that this can't be done in a PowerPoint.  It is best served in person, or at least over the phone where I can see if the coach is understanding of the process, as well as has the opportunity to ask questions.  I have always shared freely of my material, experiences and insights so I hope that you can understand my decision and will respect my position on this.

--Dave
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 04:44:09 PM by CoachDP »
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Online Coach Correa

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2018, 09:27:50 PM »
This is from my PowerPoint on Aggression.  While I'll post an excerpt here, it's not for distribution as a PDF or PP.

The P.A.I.N! Program: Physicality, Aggression, Intensity Now!
The Concept of Aggression Development: Philosophy and Approach

I don't know how to teach a player to "Hit someone as hard as you can; Just make sure that you don't hurt him."  I don't know how to coach a player by telling them, "Just give me your best, and whatever that is, it will be enough," because there is no way to quantify what his "best" is.  You'll never win a teaching point if you are "asking for a player's best" or asking for "100%" (whatever that is) because there's no way to quantify it.  If he's not giving you the result you want, but he tells you he is "doing my best," then where do you go from there?  If his "best" wasn't acceptable, yet you've already said, "Just give me your best," then you will confuse the player and are going back on your word if you decide that his best isn't good enough and make the decision to replace him.  If you don't replace him, then you may be stuck with a player on the field who is masquerading by telling you "That's my best," but it really isn't.  There's no way to really quantify what his best is, which is why we never ask for it.  We simply demand that our players "do their job."  If they do their job, then we don't have to worry about what their best is, or being able to quantify it.  On the other hand, we can easily quantify whether they did their job.  "Did you make that tackle?"  Yes, or no?  "Did you allow that receiver to get behind you?" Yes, or no?  It's never about asking for, or being satisfied with a player's "best."

I have witnessed practices where the coach tells the player, "You've got to give me 100% on this play."  The player nods in acknowledgment and then misses the tackle.  The coach yells at him for missing the tackle and the player says, "I'm trying as hard as I can."  Who's right?  Did the player give his best?  If he did, then shame on the coach for yelling at him for missing the tackle.  He made the mistake of telling the player, "Give me your best," instead of saying, "Your job is to make the tackle.  Make the tackle."  The former can't be quantified.  The latter can.  We coach with what can be quantified.

So the question becomes, "Did you do you job?"  As coaches, how can we quantify whether the player did it, or not?  By measuring what percentage of effort the player gave?  By whether the player gave their "best?"  By how hard the player "tried?"  Or, by the result?  We measure our player's performance not by something as ambiguous as effort, but by the result.  We teach with the result in mind.

That's why I don't concern myself with telling players to "give me 100%."  I don't care about 100%, or what 100% looks like.  You certainly can't measure it.  It is entirely subjective so there's no point in arguing whether someone is giving their "best."

What you can quantify is whether someone is doing their job, or not.  When it comes to tackling, we quantify the success of their job by two things: Whether their ball-carrier got back up and whether we got the football.  If he got back up, then you didn't hit him hard enough.  You didn't do your job.  If we didn't get the football, then you didn't hit hit him hard enough.  You didn't do your job.  Conversely, if he didn't get back up and/or we got the football, then you did your job.  It's simple.

Effort is not a skill, and anyone can give it.  There isn't a particular quality that we look for in demanding effort from our players.  Great effort can come in any shape, size and age.  Don't make the mistake of thinking you can eyeball a player as to who will have it, or not have it, when it is an entirely teachable component.  Effort is a fundamental.  It is taught like any other fundamental.  And like every fundamental, a coach needs to have expertise in teaching the fundamental, if he expects his players to be sound in that fundamental.  Skill (or talent), on the other hand, is what allows coaches to feature a certain trait.  But we don't rely on our kids already having those traits. 

Can you recognize which players will give effort and which ones won't?  I don't look for it because I know that we will teach it.  Why look for players who are adept at running Wedge, if they haven't run my Wedge?  They will still have to be trained in how I want it done, regardless of whether they've done it before.  If we see that a player already has skilled hands, does that make him a good candidate to be a receiver?  It might, but since "effort" is not a skill, there's nothing to look for.  Especially as it pertains to Aggression Development.  Does everyone develop at the same rate as far as our approach is concerned?  No, but since we are completely uniform in our approach, this results in our all being on the same page.  In other words, the gap between our most aggressive player and our least aggressive player isn't great, because of what we teach and the approach we use in teaching it.  We don't have one player that we are afraid to put on the field.  Many coaches can't say the same of their team.

Coaches complain that some players don't want to give effort.  I'll contend that all kids don't want to give the effort that we demand.  There are two reasons for this:  1) They're kids.  2)  It's hard.  Very hard.  Certainly harder than anything they've ever tried to do before.  De La Salle's high school football program is known for many things, such as their effort in coming off the ball at the line of scrimmage.  These are high school kids; not robots or automatons.  They give great effort and giving great effort is hard to do.  And yet their players do it.  Do they have a unique kind of player?  Or do they have a unique kind of coach?

--Dave
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Offline lunchbox

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2018, 01:00:06 PM »
This is from my PowerPoint on Aggression.  While I'll post an excerpt here, it's not for distribution as a PDF or PP.

The P.A.I.N! Program: Physicality, Aggression, Intensity Now!
The Concept of Aggression Development: Philosophy and Approach

I don't know how to teach a player to "Hit someone as hard as you can; Just make sure that you don't hurt him."  I don't know how to coach a player by telling them, "Just give me your best, and whatever that is, it will be enough," because there is no way to quantify what his "best" is.  You'll never win a teaching point if you are "asking for a player's best" or asking for "100%" (whatever that is) because there's no way to quantify it.  If he's not giving you the result you want, but he tells you he is "doing my best," then where do you go from there?  If his "best" wasn't acceptable, yet you've already said, "Just give me your best," then you will confuse the player and are going back on your word if you decide that his best isn't good enough and make the decision to replace him.  If you don't replace him, then you may be stuck with a player on the field who is masquerading by telling you "That's my best," but it really isn't.  There's no way to really quantify what his best is, which is why we never ask for it.  We simply demand that our players "do their job."  If they do their job, then we don't have to worry about what their best is, or being able to quantify it.  On the other hand, we can easily quantify whether they did their job.  "Did you make that tackle?"  Yes, or no?  "Did you allow that receiver to get behind you?" Yes, or no?  It's never about asking for, or being satisfied with a player's "best."

I have witnessed practices where the coach tells the player, "You've got to give me 100% on this play."  The player nods in acknowledgment and then misses the tackle.  The coach yells at him for missing the tackle and the player says, "I'm trying as hard as I can."  Who's right?  Did the player give his best?  If he did, then shame on the coach for yelling at him for missing the tackle.  He made the mistake of telling the player, "Give me your best," instead of saying, "Your job is to make the tackle.  Make the tackle."  The former can't be quantified.  The latter can.  We coach with what can be quantified.

So the question becomes, "Did you do you job?"  As coaches, how can we quantify whether the player did it, or not?  By measuring what percentage of effort the player gave?  By whether the player gave their "best?"  By how hard the player "tried?"  Or, by the result?  We measure our player's performance not by something as ambiguous as effort, but by the result.  We teach with the result in mind.

That's why I don't concern myself with telling players to "give me 100%."  I don't care about 100%, or what 100% looks like.  You certainly can't measure it.  It is entirely subjective so there's no point in arguing whether someone is giving their "best."

What you can quantify is whether someone is doing their job, or not.  When it comes to tackling, we quantify the success of their job by two things: Whether their ball-carrier got back up and whether we got the football.  If he got back up, then you didn't hit him hard enough.  You didn't do your job.  If we didn't get the football, then you didn't hit hit him hard enough.  You didn't do your job.  Conversely, if he didn't get back up and/or we got the football, then you did your job.  It's simple.

Effort is not a skill, and anyone can give it.  There isn't a particular quality that we look for in demanding effort from our players.  Great effort can come in any shape, size and age.  Don't make the mistake of thinking you can eyeball a player as to who will have it, or not have it, when it is an entirely teachable component.  Effort is a fundamental.  It is taught like any other fundamental.  And like every fundamental, a coach needs to have expertise in teaching the fundamental, if he expects his players to be sound in that fundamental.  Skill (or talent), on the other hand, is what allows coaches to feature a certain trait.  But we don't rely on our kids already having those traits. 

Can you recognize which players will give effort and which ones won't?  I don't look for it because I know that we will teach it.  Why look for players who are adept at running Wedge, if they haven't run my Wedge?  They will still have to be trained in how I want it done, regardless of whether they've done it before.  If we see that a player already has skilled hands, does that make him a good candidate to be a receiver?  It might, but since "effort" is not a skill, there's nothing to look for.  Especially as it pertains to Aggression Development.  Does everyone develop at the same rate as far as our approach is concerned?  No, but since we are completely uniform in our approach, this results in our all being on the same page.  In other words, the gap between our most aggressive player and our least aggressive player isn't great, because of what we teach and the approach we use in teaching it.  We don't have one player that we are afraid to put on the field.  Many coaches can't say the same of their team.

Coaches complain that some players don't want to give effort.  I'll contend that all kids don't want to give the effort that we demand.  There are two reasons for this:  1) They're kids.  2)  It's hard.  Very hard.  Certainly harder than anything they've ever tried to do before.  De La Salle's high school football program is known for many things, such as their effort in coming off the ball at the line of scrimmage.  These are high school kids; not robots or automatons.  They give great effort and giving great effort is hard to do.  And yet their players do it.  Do they have a unique kind of player?  Or do they have a unique kind of coach?

--Dave

This would make a great 2018 dumcoach.com clinic!!!!

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #64 on: March 18, 2018, 06:46:32 PM »
Dave deserves to withhold here.  The whole story behind his methodology makes a huge difference. One just cannot simply go to "HULK SMASH" without understanding the whole concept.  Ya dont hand a running chain saw to a 10 year old and point to the tree!
   
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline mahonz

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2018, 08:09:01 PM »
If, by the "Peanut Gallery," you mean "Parents" then ours did have a clue this goes on.  We told them this was our approach.  We were up front and transparent about it.  We teach this way for a reason.  We don't make ask or expect our players to be complicit in any sort of secretive approach.  I don't believe in "What goes on in the locker room, stays in the locker room."  That approach will get you fired.  I believe in being able to coach the game as if every parent were standing on our practice field.

--Dave

Opps.....missed this response.

We dont even tell the players we have a Mojo Count....or few if any of the other coaches. Just a me and Lar thing. Notches on our Neanderthal guns. 

Some things best left....unsaid.  ;)
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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2018, 08:57:44 PM »
My halftime speech is nothing more than the game is not over (regardless of score).  I ask that we focus on doing our job, execution! 

To me, it doesnt matter if we are Up or Down, the bottom line remains..Focus and Execution!   
Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2018, 08:14:16 AM »
Dave deserves to withhold here.  The whole story behind his methodology makes a huge difference. One just cannot simply go to "HULK SMASH" without understanding the whole concept.  Ya dont hand a running chain saw to a 10 year old and point to the tree!
   

I definitely agree.  Dave and I have spoken and I have attended one of his clinics and I still don't feel like I have a good enough grasp to just grab a slide with a drill and have at it.  Sometimes (ok, lots of times) people are looking for a quick fix to a problem that is more complicated.  For this, I don't think that there is a quick fix and you cannot eliminate the need to put in the time and effort. 

Offline mahonz

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #68 on: March 20, 2018, 01:21:56 PM »
I definitely agree.  Dave and I have spoken and I have attended one of his clinics and I still don't feel like I have a good enough grasp to just grab a slide with a drill and have at it.  Sometimes (ok, lots of times) people are looking for a quick fix to a problem that is more complicated.  For this, I don't think that there is a quick fix and you cannot eliminate the need to put in the time and effort.

This topic has been somewhat taboo on the Forums for as long as I can remember. Not really sure why. Football is a violent sport so...be violent. Its seems rather straight forward too me.
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Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #69 on: March 20, 2018, 01:37:48 PM »
This topic has been somewhat taboo on the Forums for as long as I can remember. Not really sure why. Football is a violent sport so...be violent. Its seems rather straight forward too me.

I think that it is a sensitive topic because you want to teach players to be aggressive (or violent, if you want) but you are not intending to get anyone injured.  We can teach them to play the game with violence and still avoid head shots, spears, or other "unsafe" acts.  The sensitive portion is that "unsafe" is often in the eye of the beholder. 

For example - some people use the phrase "play to the whistle", while others want players to go a fraction after they hear the whistle.  We all (probably) agree that we don't want our players with lots of late hits out there, but how "late" is "too late"?

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #70 on: March 20, 2018, 05:01:47 PM »
We can teach them to play the game with violence and still avoid head shots, spears, or other "unsafe" acts.

This is the key. You teach them the rules and demand that they are followed. This means we don't teach them how to "get away with holding", or "how to take cheap shots at the bottom of a pile", etc. etc. etc. I used to be big on "no trash talk", but not so much anymore.  Then last Fall, one of our sister teams got disqualified from the playoffs due to a scuffle that started with trash talking.  So it's probably time to re-evaluate that issue. I know I won't be doing any trash talking anymore.

Quote
The sensitive portion is that "unsafe" is often in the eye of the beholder. 

I guess I would have to care about "they eye of the beholder" for that to matter. I've never seen a coach in either hockey or football yell "Good tackle, Timmy, but not so hard next time." The guys who complain about the opponent hitting too hard are the same one whooping and hollering when their guy lays a big hit. It's often a shock when a coach who encourages hard hits encounters a coach who demands it.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #71 on: March 20, 2018, 10:58:30 PM »
This topic has been somewhat taboo on the Forums for as long as I can remember.

--Yes, it has.

Not really sure why. Football is a violent sport so...be violent. Its seems rather straight forward too me.

--Because coaching a "Hit to Hurt" philosophy is often misinterpreted as a FNT-Cave Man approach to the game.  And yet, I've never seen a coach who didn't appreciate one of his own players delivering a big hit.  They may not refer to it as a "Kill Shot," but whatever you call it really doesn't matter.  No coach apologizes for having players who will bring the heat.  It's just that for us, it's not an accident.  It's not occasional.  It's a coached-technique that we emphasize and look for. 

--While emphasizing "Hit to Hurt" and "Aggression Development" can mean entirely different things, to me they are one and the same.  Mind you, we never touted our approach until coaches began asking how we achieved what we were getting from our players.  I wasn't aware that we were doing anything unique until about 17 years ago when an opposing coach asked me about our defense.  He had a lot of questions about what we did and how we got what we did.  (We shut them out in a pre-season scrimmage despite that they went on to have an undefeated season.)  In my mind, we simply played hard.  Really hard.  But nothing unusual or innovative.  It wasn't until our video got on the internet that we began getting more than just local attention.  As we received more questions, we found that perhaps our approach was different (based on the feedback we were getting).  Teaching our kids to fight, fighting to be able to participate in drills, fighting to get in the lineup and be able to play were aspects that some coaches had difficulty in accepting, much less implementing.  Teaching our players to excel is of vital importance to me.  As I told our offensive line today, we will not be the tallest or the heaviest, so we have to be the meanest and the most physical.  Even when we work lite, we are rough in what we do.

--Dave

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"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline Prodigy

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2018, 11:34:00 AM »
There was something I saw online some time ago that said "everyone wants to be a beast, until it's time to put in the work".  It's been my experience that everything *thinks* they want an aggressive and dominant team, until they learn what is involved...then every excuse in the book comes out.  Point blank, Coach DP has the road map or the blueprint if you will to developing these traits and there is a bunch involved that quite a few coaches simply aren't ready for.  Can you still get better performance from your athletes by taking some of his ideas away?  Absolutely, but your chili isn't going to be as spicy if you don't follow his entire recipe...that simple.

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Offline Wing-n-It

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2018, 12:12:11 PM »
My halftime speech is nothing more than the game is not over (regardless of score).  I ask that we focus on doing our job, execution! 

To me, it doesnt matter if we are Up or Down, the bottom line remains..Focus and Execution!
I remember during a halftime "games not over" speech ( I think we were up) I was telling the kids "all you have to do is just continue to execute, just execute and everything will be fine"

I then looked at the 9 YOs some with weird looks on their faces and remembered I needed to keep the terminology easy to understand and I asked the kids "Do y'all know what I mean by execute?"

They said all together "Kill!!"

Myself, Parents and coaches had a good laugh but I never told them no.

Robert

2 Things my offense will always have is a Wing and a Wedge

Offline Michael

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Re: Coaching aggression
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2018, 12:32:26 PM »
I remember during a halftime "games not over" speech ( I think we were up) I was telling the kids "all you have to do is just continue to execute, just execute and everything will be fine"

I then looked at the 9 YOs some with weird looks on their faces and remembered I needed to keep the terminology easy to understand and I asked the kids "Do y'all know what I mean by execute?"

They said all together "Kill!!"

Myself, Parents and coaches had a good laugh but I never told them no.

We were down 6-0 at halftime of a Super Bowl a few years ago.  The head coach gave a long, "You don't think we can come back from ONE TOUCHDOWN DOWN?  ONE TOUCHDOWN DOWN?  ARE YOU KIDDING ME?" speech.

Like 30 seconds into the second half, we were down 13-0.  I was like, "Should we update the speech?"

We ended up winning.

Good times.
“If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein