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Author Topic: Ego  (Read 3469 times)

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Offline 32wedge

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Re: Ego
« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2018, 04:09:17 PM »
Nathan, I get that.  But that sounds like a scheduling issue as there's nothing wrong with wanting a "level playing field."  But your issue may not be "scheduling."  It may be that reality dictates who you have to schedule.  And there may be no getting around scheduling the 6A giant.

For four years, I coached at the 10th smallest high school program in the state.  We had approximately 22 players on the Varsity and no JV team.  Sometimes we played against a Varsity team.  Sometimes we played against a JV team.  That was up to our opponent.  But most of the time, it was against a Varsity opponent.  And it was rough, especially since we had no weight room in Year 1 and 2.  And then had to use a small classroom as a weight room on Year 3.  There was no way we could fit more than a few pieces of equipment in there.  Regardless, it was rough.  But that was the price of admission.  We either played football on that very uneven playing field, or we didn't play at all.  We chose to play.  And the result was the result.  And it was often ugly. 

So if it's too rough, or discouraging, or painful, we have two choices: Get better or don't coach.  But don't whine about your opponent because there's nothing you can do about them or how they run their team.

--Dave

I agree.   

Scheduling/district alignment here is dictated by travel distance instead of enrollment size.

My only point was that there are other reasons for wanting to "level playing field" besides being afraid to play good teams and I never said anything negative about the way my opponent coached.  His team had size, speed, numbers and were well coached.  A better coach than me might have kept the game a little closer but unless he has a few miracles in the game plan, he's probably still getting killed.

We started the season with 19 players, finished with 18 including 4 injured.  We are trying to build a program from the youth level to the high school where there has been no success ever, very similar to your situation at KHS.  Getting man handled and pummeled on the score board does not help my recruiting efforts for next season and you better believe I am going to try to get the AD to drop that game in the future and hopefully find us someone our own size.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Ego
« Reply #76 on: November 06, 2018, 04:10:26 PM »
Well, at that point in the game, we hadn't run any trick plays yet. Also, there's a big difference between running up the score and encouraging personal fouls. At least to me, there is. Feel free to disagree.

Doesn't matter whether I agree.  You're traveling down that road of tit for tat; what's justified as opposed to what's unjustified.  My position is, it doesn't matter.  Your gauge of what's appropriate will be different from your opponent's.  So why even go there and worry whether you've been slighted, or whether you've slighted someone else?  Just coach your team.

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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Ego
« Reply #77 on: November 06, 2018, 04:12:30 PM »
LOL...what a load of PC crap.

Sorry I got involved.

I'm not, Mike.  It certainly provides a discourse that practically every coach has been involved with, on one side or the other.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Ego
« Reply #78 on: November 06, 2018, 04:13:44 PM »
Lol. If thatís all it takes iím gonna guess you have a lot of buttons. Thatís pretty tame as far as trash talk goes. Especially since it appears to have been an accurate statement.

I discover new "buttons" all the time.

Look, my ability to describe the situation from my keyboard is limited. It wasn't what he said, but how he said it. Also, I never complained once about this coach. I simply filed it away under "some day". I want my guys pissed off at every perceived slight or display of disrespect. We will get ours and it will be 100% within the rules. That's all part of the Mojo.
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Offline Seabass

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Re: Ego
« Reply #79 on: November 06, 2018, 04:16:51 PM »
I coached against a team who had "that guy" as their header. My AC's absolutely hated the guy (they had history with him), as did most of the league. I eventually hated the guy myself. He represented everything that is wrong with sports.

My issue with "sticking it" to his team was the same issue I have with divorced parent's who use their kid's to act out vindictive behavior towards each other.

That guys player's weren't that guy, they were just a reflection of that guy.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Ego
« Reply #80 on: November 06, 2018, 04:17:52 PM »
I never said anything negative about the way my opponent coached.

--No.  My reply was in regards to this thread, in general.

We are trying to build a program from the youth level to the high school where there has been no success ever, very similar to your situation at KHS.  Getting man handled and pummeled on the score board does not help my recruiting efforts for next season and you better believe I am going to try to get the AD to drop that game in the future and hopefully find us someone our own size.

--I get that.  Nothing wrong with that.  But in terms of program-building, if you can't win games, then you have to find someone other aspect of your program to sell your sizzle.  Facilities, off-season road-trips, mentoring...I dunno.  But something to give your parents and players the hope that they can get something from you, that they couldn't get from any other coach.

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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Ego
« Reply #81 on: November 06, 2018, 04:18:59 PM »
We will get ours and it will be 100% within the rules. That's all part of the Mojo.

Amen, brother.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Ego
« Reply #82 on: November 06, 2018, 04:22:09 PM »
So you're going to make your private battle, theirs?  You're going to ask your players to fight your battle? 

I don't look at it that way. Our team belongs to the players. It is always their battle. I'm simply reminding them that they were once in a battle. Am I manufacturing "drama"? I don't think so. I'm just not going to let them pretend it never happened. One Fall day when you were 7, that coach said something in such a way that really embarrassed you and hurt your feelings. Also, his kids were playing dirty and instead of fixing it, he decided to yell at the refs. Cool. Bottle that up and we'll unleash it someday when the time is right.

I don't hold much back in this game. A wise man used to say to play this game with your heart on your sleeve. I want my players to do the same. There's a decent chance that we play this same team every year, sometimes twice a year for the next 6 and there's an even better chance that we will hate their guts every step of the way.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Ego
« Reply #83 on: November 06, 2018, 04:24:02 PM »
This is such a solid point right here.  Maybe your opponent was getting his revenge on something.  Who knows.  So now you guys want to make it into a big dumb cycle of revenge.  You get your revenge, now he needs to get his revenge, which will mean you will have to get revenge again.  Meanwhile your kids are flossing on the sidelines, and are none the wiser.

Dumb to you. Not dumb to me.

And yeah, flossing on the sidelines, none the wiser is what I am trying VERY hard to eliminate.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Ego
« Reply #84 on: November 06, 2018, 04:26:56 PM »
My issue with "sticking it" to his team was the same issue I have with divorced parent's who use their kid's to act out vindictive behavior towards each other.

That guys player's weren't that guy, they were just a reflection of that guy.

GREAT way to look at it, Josh.  When I tried to play the "let's make it personal" game, I've found that I just get my whole practice routine and approach sideways and the vindictiveness of it all becomes the forefront of the game.  Not a very satisfactory way to coach, especially with kids involved.  But when you win a lot of games, you create a lot of enemies; add to that personal biases and racism and before you know it, everybody is accusing you of something.  How else can the lesser coach explain getting his butt handed to him time after time?  It must be because of cheating/stacking/recruiting/yearroundpractices/undergroundpracticefacilities, etc.  But it's not because they're not a very good coach.  ::)

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"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Ego
« Reply #85 on: November 06, 2018, 04:29:20 PM »
A wise man used to say to play this game with your heart on your sleeve. I want my players to do the same.

Well, you know I'll agree with that.

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Ego
« Reply #86 on: November 06, 2018, 04:32:35 PM »
I mean, itís def clown behavior. Iím just sayin if THAT is one of your buttons, youíre probably pissed off a lot. Cuz thatís just some standard issue vanilla trash talk.

I try not to live inside my own head too much, so I don't make a habit of examining why something touches me off, but here goes. I have a hockey background. It's a game played  with honor and respect. You'd be surprised at some of the things that touch off a brawl, but a big one is disrespecting your opponent. Scoring a goal, then going to the other team's bench and pretending like your stick is a rifle or bow and arrow.

Anyway, I'm the first one to congratulate the stud RB and tell him how badly he kicked our butt. Coach having a go at my players? Yeah, it pissed me off. Seeing how it affected my players pissed me off even more.
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Offline SingleWingGoombah

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Re: Ego
« Reply #87 on: November 06, 2018, 04:36:04 PM »
Dumb to you. Not dumb to me.

And yeah, flossing on the sidelines, none the wiser is what I am trying VERY hard to eliminate.

Ok I get eliminating the flossing on the sideline stuff.

But why are you trying to make a 7 year old more aware to stupid adult antics like that?  My god, let the kids be kids.  I had to listen to a coach in our organization that coaches 8 year olds talk up about the level of disrespect they should feel for being an undefeated 3 seed (1 and 2 were undefeated as well) and how that the 2 seed they were playing does not belong on their level, and they need to take out the disrespect on that team.  All week long.  They go and win 7-0.  Do you think any of those kids are thinking crap, we did not avenge the disrespect enough.  Hell no. Those kids had no idea what that coach was talking about.  His brilliant motivational tool was age appropriate.  I have tried the disrespect angle before too with mostly a 10 year old team.  It may work for a very very small percentage of kids.  But for the most part you are just blowing smoke.

I used to talk about coaching to turn these kids in to men... then I had kids of my own... and I wanted my kids to be kids as long as possible.  I don't talk about being men anymore.  I want them to be kids.  Its not age appropriate for a 7 year old to feel disrespected the way you were.  I think you being upset over the coaches antics blinded you to the kids real reaction to it. 

If your need for revenge is going to make you coach those kids differently... then maybe you should have been doing things differently the whole time.  It should have zero effect on how you practice, or what you do.  You should be doing your best possible job, and working your hardest to beat any team.  Your next crack at this coach... how are you going to approach it differently the week leading up to the game?

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Ego
« Reply #88 on: November 06, 2018, 04:36:36 PM »
I bet your kids got over that feeling incredibly fast. 
I'll be sure to remind them when the time comes.

Quote
You have been coaching long enough to know winning is not about the score, its about how they played.  If you finally get your revenge and beat this team, and your team plays like crap... how happy are you going to be?

It won't be much of a "revenge" if we play like crap, but I get your point. The whole point is to use it to help our focus and effort. So, ideally, this helps us prepare against them. It doesn't always work out that way.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Ego
« Reply #89 on: November 06, 2018, 04:38:22 PM »
It should have zero effect on how you practice, or what you do.  You should be doing your best possible job, and working your hardest to beat any team.

^ This. Absolutely. ^

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope