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Author Topic: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?  (Read 924 times)

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Offline Vince148

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How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« on: June 13, 2018, 06:41:26 AM »
I've mentioned this on here before. The program that I'm involved with has a very anti-youth league high school program. They have been trying to undermine the program for the past couple of years in that they are recruiting 6th graders to play Jr. High ball. This has endangered the youth program as that is half of our 5th/6th grade team. Meetings with the AD and HC have been unproductive. I think our team director is sort of giving up the fight and I can't say that I blame her. I mentioned 3 weeks ago that we needed to start early sign-ups. Her response was that "they don't do that." I emailed her with the idea of doing a mini camp for the youth in July, although now I'm thinking it should be sooner. She seems to be for that. I'm thinking maybe we can offer a $30 discount if the kid comes to the camp. The only reason I'm still with this program is because I have no other options available right now. If I end up without a team again this year, I hate to admit it, but I'll probably be done with coaching which would be disappointing because at my age, it's one of the few things that I really enjoy. But, how can you build a program when the establishment seems to be so dead set on bringing it down?

Offline CoachCalande

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2018, 06:57:09 AM »
I've mentioned this on here before. The program that I'm involved with has a very anti-youth league high school program. They have been trying to undermine the program for the past couple of years in that they are recruiting 6th graders to play Jr. High ball. This has endangered the youth program as that is half of our 5th/6th grade team. Meetings with the AD and HC have been unproductive. I think our team director is sort of giving up the fight and I can't say that I blame her. I mentioned 3 weeks ago that we needed to start early sign-ups. Her response was that "they don't do that." I emailed her with the idea of doing a mini camp for the youth in July, although now I'm thinking it should be sooner. She seems to be for that. I'm thinking maybe we can offer a $30 discount if the kid comes to the camp. The only reason I'm still with this program is because I have no other options available right now. If I end up without a team again this year, I hate to admit it, but I'll probably be done with coaching which would be disappointing because at my age, it's one of the few things that I really enjoy. But, how can you build a program when the establishment seems to be so dead set on bringing it down?

This is a two way street and the kids and game suffer most.

Consider that the MS may feel that the youth program slams, criticizes, slanders, the MS team.

Open dialogue in such a way that the “ ready” 6th graders are pushed to play ms ball, the unready are not. Thats best fir the kids and increases chances they stay with the game.
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Offline Coach TonyM

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2018, 07:20:07 AM »
I coach 7th and 8th grade middle school.   The new varsity head coach started june 1st.  I told him we have about 4 or 5 7th graders that play for me while the bulk play for the youth team.  He says, ill fix that.  I asked what.  He said they need to play middle school. I said they need to play whichever they want. I told him if you cut the throat of our youth team, then you are cutting the throat of the middle school. 

I have parents every year asking me which i would suggest they play.  I tell them that they should let the kid decide.  If he wants to play down, then let him.  If he wants to play up, thats fine.   Now if they're in the 8th grade, i tell em to play middle school.  Big jump from youth to jvs.

Offline Vince148

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2018, 08:43:47 AM »
This is a two way street and the kids and game suffer most.

Consider that the MS may feel that the youth program slams, criticizes, slanders, the MS team.

Open dialogue in such a way that the “ ready” 6th graders are pushed to play ms ball, the unready are not. Thats best fir the kids and increases chances they stay with the game.
Absolutely. It's actually the 5th grade kids that get caught in the wash. They can't play down and they can't go up. So, they end up missing a whole year of skill development.

Offline CoachDavidP

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2018, 08:55:44 AM »
Our Jr High/Middle School Ball has been prove to be a step down compared to most of the youth leagues in our area and some of them will still have 40-50 on the 7th and 8th grade teams. Yeah, sometimes 100 total between the two. Then play less games and have fewer coaches with no minimum play rules so plenty of kids don’t even see the field 

It just seems common sense they could send some kids to the youth teams just so they know they are getting more reps and more football experience.

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Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2018, 09:35:45 AM »
We have had contentious dealings with the HS in various situations for both football and cheer.  Best bet is open dialogue, so that everyone understands what is going on. 

We had a situation where the HS wanted to take all of the 8th graders and allow them to play freshmen ball.  It was done that way years back and they wanted to bring it back to help struggling numbers at the HS.  We talked it through with the HS AD and coaches to coordinate a good timing for it and how we would co-message it.  We did it last year and this year we are doing it again.  New HS HC now wants to work with us more to help improve the coaching and getting to the kids sooner. 

Cheer is still dealing with issues with the HS and I think that there are always going to be issues when you have any possibility of overlap with kids and a numbers problem. 

Talk it out with the HS and, if they are not being reasonable, make those discussions more public so that people are aware of where the issues are. 

Offline CoachDP

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2018, 10:16:09 AM »
I mentioned 3 weeks ago that we needed to start early sign-ups. Her response was that "they don't do that."   

But, how can you build a program when the establishment seems to be so dead set on bringing it down?

It doesn't sound like "the establishment" is trying to bring it down.  Sounds like your team director is doing it well enough on her own.

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Offline CoachDP

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2018, 10:27:56 AM »
Give the players and parents a better alternative and they will come.  When I coached my final year in youth ball (2010), it was my first time coaching Pop Warner "Varsity" players (then called, "Midgets").  It was the oldest group in PW.  Kids at that age usually played middle school or high school football.  And as such, parents have no registration fee, kids don't have to be shuttled back & forth to practice, and their Saturday's are free.  Whereas in youth ball, parents would have to pay $150, get the kids to and from practice and have their Saturday's tied up.  So school ball was by far the more attractive alternative.  But we scraped up enough to have a roster of 22 and went 8-0, which is still the only time in the org's history that age group had done so.  My point?  Give them a reason to be there.  Our reason (challenge) was to do something that had never been done before (go undefeated).   Give them a reason.  Provide them with a better alternative.

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Offline Vince148

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2018, 10:30:22 AM »
It doesn't sound like "the establishment" is trying to bring it down.  Sounds like your team director is doing it well enough on her own.

--Dave
That thought has also crossed my mind, but I think she's just tired of the BS.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 10:32:54 AM »
That thought has also crossed my mind, but I think she's just tired of the BS.

Does it matter what she's tired of?  If you're "tired," you can't complain about the butt-whipping you're getting from another org.

--Dave
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Offline Vince148

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 10:33:47 AM »
Give the players and parents a better alternative and they will come.  When I coached my final year in youth ball (2010), it was my first time coaching Pop Warner "Varsity" players (then called, "Midgets").  It was the oldest group in PW.  Kids at that age usually played middle school or high school football.  And as such, parents have no registration fee, kids don't have to be shuttled back & forth to practice, and their Saturday's are free.  Whereas in youth ball, parents would have to pay $150, get the kids to and from practice and have their Saturday's tied up.  So school ball was by far the more attractive alternative.  But we scraped up enough to have a roster of 22 and went 8-0, which is still the only time in the org's history that age group had done so.  My point?  Give them a reason to be there.  Our reason (challenge) was to do something that had never been done before (go undefeated).   Give them a reason.  Provide them with a better alternative.

--Dave
Definitely agree with this. Just have to figure out what makes us a better alternative. More playing time. More focus on the fundamentals.

Offline coachmiket

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2018, 10:35:32 AM »
Definitely agree with this. Just have to figure out what makes us a better alternative. More playing time. More focus on the fundamentals.

Or if you are at all. 

Offline CoachDP

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2018, 10:40:18 AM »
Our Jr High/Middle School Ball has been prove to be a step down compared to most of the youth leagues in our area

--Amen.  Same with us.

some of them will still have 40-50 on the 7th and 8th grade teams. Yeah, sometimes 100 total between the two. Then play less games and have fewer coaches with no minimum play rules so plenty of kids don’t even see the field 

--This ^.  And without an MPR rule, those kids don't have to play.  And those that won't play, won't get coached.  (Why coach a kid that you're not going to play?)  And if they don't get coached, then they won't get a chance to play.  It's a cycle.

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Offline CoachDP

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2018, 10:48:54 AM »
Just have to figure out what makes us a better alternative.

This is what I told them in 2010:

You will have a better coach. (Me; not the Band teacher.)

You are guaranteed to play.  (MPR rule.)

Since you are guaranteed to play, I guarantee that you will be coached.

Longer quarters (10 minutes, as opposed to 8 minutes for middle school.)

More games.  A pre-season travel scrimmage, 8 regular-season games (as opposed to 7 games for middle school), and then play-offs.  There are no middle school play-offs.

The opportunity to travel (in our region we had North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida as possible post-season locations.)

Academic award system presented at our banquet and your school, recorded and issued on DVD.

The opportunity to do one thing that has never been done before in our org, at this age level:  Go undefeated.

Oh, and did I mention a better coach?  (Me.  Not the Band teacher.)

--Dave
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline Vince148

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Re: How do you deal with an antagonistic HS program?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2018, 10:56:11 AM »
This is what I told them in 2010:

You will have a better coach. (Me; not the Band teacher.)

You are guaranteed to play.  (MPR rule.)

Since you are guaranteed to play, I guarantee that you will be coached.

Oh, and did I mention a better coach?  (Me.  Not the Band teacher.)

--Dave
or not some kid that graduated high school.
These work for me.