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Author Topic: My son's love of football has diminished?  (Read 1236 times)

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Offline MHcoach

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2017, 01:09:08 PM »
I think it was DC who posted once that 75% of youth players don't play HS football. Coaching on both sides I get the reasons. Being honest, it is very difficult to be an 8A player in FL. Leaving scholarships out of the equation, the rewards are well worth effort.

Our players make life long friendships & memories. It is one of the few places they learn discipline & work ethic. Yes it can be grueling, & that is where we as coaches have to keep things in prospective.

Joe
"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"
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Offline MHcoach

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2017, 03:21:04 PM »
One of the issues we see is players not having a concept of what it takes to be part of the team. At my school we start January 1. We have a weight training class 4 days a week 1 hour a day. Then we have Spring Football. 5 weeks culminating in a Spring Game. So as a player you just can't walk down the first week of school & say I want to play football.

We encourage our players to participate in other Sports. They are given the leeway if needed. We encourage the big guys to wrestle & competitive Weight Lifting. The others play Basketball, run Track or field events. Lacrosse at our school is a big deal. We played for a State Championship. We have 5 or 6 that play LAX. Many coaches only their guys to play football, we think it limits the potential talent pool as well as burns the players out.

That all being said a player still has to understand what it takes to play here. There is Summer workouts, 3 days a week,
 & camp. It wouldn't be fair for someone to walk down & play on the first day of school. We try not to turn those players away either, we just restrict them to JV or Frosh.

Joe
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Bill Walsh

Offline Wing-n-It

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2017, 03:21:22 PM »
My son 15 going into 10th grade has been a starter to stud since Pop Warner.  At 6 years old he wanted to play When the youngest we had was seven years old he asked me every few days when sign-ups were for the next time until I actually was able to get him signed up.  Last year he asked if he could quit which he has never done I reminded him the rule is once you start the season you finish but you don't have to do the same thing next year you have to do at least something. He told me he couldn't stand the coaching staff they were always yelling but never explaining anything after watching in the background I found it to be true
  He stated football was no longer fun.  at the end of the year he was excited that he would be moving up and leaving the coaching staff behind.  He was really excited for this year  until unfortunately they have rewarded that coaching staff by  moving them up.  Now he is very firm that he does not want to play this year.  There is supposed to be a big shake up and entirely new staff next year at varsity, jv and freshman.  But... I have been hearing that for the last 3 -4 years.  I personally know 3 kids that don't want to play this year and two that definitely are not that were starters last year and I coached in pee wee.   Yesterday while my youngest son was talking about how much fun he is having in football my 15 year old said see thas what I mean I used to have fUn and love it too.  Why can't it still be fun.  As a coach I am upset as a parent who loved sharing football with my kids it is disheartening.  Anyway.  I just needed to vent.
Coach I feel for you because this is exactly what me and my wife are having with our son. He was told (to use the term loosely) how things would happen when he got into college and played for SFA.
The coaches have sucked all his love he has had for years out in one year. He is trying to get back up to go to another college but his motivation is gone. He used to be one of the toughest hardest working kids on any team he was on but he doesn't even want to be a coach anymore.
He really feels betrayed by who he thought were being honest towards him. He had other opportunities/ full rides at some other d1 schools but listened to SFA about how good it would be there and "so close to home"

I wish they had a lie detector hooked up to coaches during recruiting visits and home visits

Robert

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Offline jrk5150

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2017, 03:46:03 PM »
With all due respect to a couple of you guys on here, Joe included, I think you're missing the point.  The point is, there are really, really shitty HS coaches out there who suck the life out of the sport, and have a complete lack of perspective of their place in the world.  And there are a LOT of them out there.  In no way will I say the majority - in fact, I'd bet the majority are good.  But there are a lot of those idiots out there.  This isn't about "football isn't for everyone", this is about adults coaches ruining the experience of a bunch of kids because they don't know WTF they're doing.  I have seen them with my own eyes, and people I trust have gone through similar experiences.  Ask JJ about his son, he went through it.  And while it isn't life or death, it is a real shame when a kid who loves the sport gets that ripped away because Bozo is running the circus.

Go on Huey's and check out some of those threads that come up around these kinds of topics - there actually was one about perspective about a year or so ago - a lot of those guys get it, but there are some who don't.  HS coaches are YOUTH coaches, and some just don't understand that concept. 

I also understand that sometimes it's not the coach, it's the kid or the parent.  I get that totally.  But sometimes it IS the coach...
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 03:50:30 PM by jrk5150 »

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2017, 04:54:39 PM »
This subject has many sides not just 2.  I'll leave out the College Meat Market Frenzy.

Basically its all about perception.

If us Coaches fail to provide clear information on expectation and reality its our fault. 
If we close our doors and become unapproachable, its our fault.

If Parents perceive their child to be the best thing since "insert NFL Player Name Here" its our job to set the tone before that crap creeps in.
If Parents think, I paid money my kid plays!  Again its our job to set the tone.

Its perfectly OK to be honest with players regarding their ability and set goals for them as long as we are prepared to act once they meet them.  While none of us wants to loose players or see kids quit, at least if we are honest with them, and encourage them not to give up on themselves we have a chance to retain them.  Hopefully, they will take advice to heart and make the attempt to improve themselves. 

I had this issue with my son FR/Soph year.  I left it up to him to go see this coach and ask.  I also told him to be prepared to hear things you dont like.  He finished his HS Career filling a role on Special Teams because he practiced it during the off season.  We found a Niche to fill and he did very well.  Considering all his Fr/JV and Varsity time I think he had a good career and received all the intangible benefits this sport offers.

After his HS career he talked about playing College Ball as a D1 walk on.  I had to lay it out very "matter of fact" for him.  While he was D1 Size and Weight for a FS/SS he was not fast enough or strong enough to walk on and say here I am.  Could he play D2/D3 sure with some additional strength and speed training?  Sure but I emphasized that I was not paying for College just so he could play ball.   He would have to go to JuCo and establish himself as a student first, then we would talk about transferring to a D2/D3 school. 
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Offline coacharnold

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2017, 04:55:58 PM »
With all due respect to a couple of you guys on here, Joe included, I think you're missing the point.  The point is, there are really, really shitty HS coaches out there who suck the life out of the sport, and have a complete lack of perspective of their place in the world.  And there are a LOT of them out there.  In no way will I say the majority - in fact, I'd bet the majority are good.  But there are a lot of those idiots out there.  This isn't about "football isn't for everyone", this is about adults coaches ruining the experience of a bunch of kids because they don't know WTF they're doing.  I have seen them with my own eyes, and people I trust have gone through similar experiences.  Ask JJ about his son, he went through it.  And while it isn't life or death, it is a real shame when a kid who loves the sport gets that ripped away because Bozo is running the circus.

Go on Huey's and check out some of those threads that come up around these kinds of topics - there actually was one about perspective about a year or so ago - a lot of those guys get it, but there are some who don't.  HS coaches are YOUTH coaches, and some just don't understand that concept. 

I also understand that sometimes it's not the coach, it's the kid or the parent.  I get that totally.  But sometimes it IS the coach...

The thing is that HS coaches get criticized a LOT.  More than youth coaches realize.  Take all the BS a typical MS or 11U coach deals with and multiply it by about 30.  It makes them quick to get defensive.  A lot of it is whining that he doesn't throw the ball/throws it too much, doesn't run the flashy offense that the college runs on TV, players are making mistakes, talent is down, not winning enough or not winning big enough, not having enough kids get scholarships, etc.

That's not what's being talked about here at all.

As I said, I've been a HS coach for most of my career.  I've worked for some great coaches who treated their players like family and I've worked for some who treated their players like pieces of meat.  The school I posted about earlier in this thread that made me hate coaching was stocked with a group of the most knowledgable coaches I've ever worked with.  Their knowledge of the game and how to play it was excellent and I learned a great deal from my time there... but they just did not care much about the kids or community and acted very entitled about everything.

I believe that a lot of HS coaches need to remember that the kids really don't owe us a thing.  HS football is not for everyone, and at a huge school you're still only allowed to put 11 on the field at once, so I get why a lot of kids drop off as they go up.  Other kids have bigger things going on in their lives than football, too.  No hard feelings there.  That's far different from a coach making the game such a miserable experience for players that they quit, but some HS coaches see that as a sign they're doing things right.

IMO, for the players who want to stick around and give us everything they've got, as coaches we owe them our respect and our gratitude for being part of our team and making the sacrifices we demand of them in order to compete.  We shouldn't waste their time or put their bodies at risk unnecessarily, nor should we look down on the ones who aren't as talented.  It's still a game.  The greatest game on earth.  Let them enjoy playing it while they can.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 04:58:16 PM by coacharnold »

Offline Coach Smith

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2017, 01:40:05 AM »
With all due respect to a couple of you guys on here, Joe included, I think you're missing the point.  The point is, there are really, really shitty HS coaches out there who suck the life out of the sport, and have a complete lack of perspective of their place in the world.  And there are a LOT of them out there.  In no way will I say the majority - in fact, I'd bet the majority are good.  But there are a lot of those idiots out there.  This isn't about "football isn't for everyone", this is about adults coaches ruining the experience of a bunch of kids because they don't know WTF they're doing.  I have seen them with my own eyes, and people I trust have gone through similar experiences.  Ask JJ about his son, he went through it.  And while it isn't life or death, it is a real shame when a kid who loves the sport gets that ripped away because Bozo is running the circus.

Go on Huey's and check out some of those threads that come up around these kinds of topics - there actually was one about perspective about a year or so ago - a lot of those guys get it, but there are some who don't.  HS coaches are YOUTH coaches, and some just don't understand that concept. 

I also understand that sometimes it's not the coach, it's the kid or the parent.  I get that totally.  But sometimes it IS the coach...

This is what I am talking about.  It's not that the kid (my son) isn't good, won't work hard or not playing as he was a starter.  It's shitty coaching that yells all day long due to lack of knowledge of what to do.. "you gotta block somebody"  but never a who or how.   No teaching, no filming (although I have filmed) no eval process at the beginning of the season just very poorly run.  I have seen youth programs run way better with volunteer coaches.  When I was a player we had a very well run successful program that gives me my perspective on how it could be or should be run.  We had 2 conference championships, a state semi final appearance and state title in my junior and senior year.  My coaches yelled a lot but it was for motivation not in the condescending way his coaches seem to do.  Anyway he (my son) has 3 years of High school left and it sucks that he may only play the last two if at all due to shitty coaching.  He also plays and loves lacrosse and those coaches but its not football his words not mine. 
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If any thing goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good, then you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you.
 ~Paul Bear Bryant

Offline COACH JC

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2017, 11:53:10 AM »
This is what I am talking about.  It's not that the kid (my son) isn't good, won't work hard or not playing as he was a starter.  It's shitty coaching that yells all day long due to lack of knowledge of what to do.. "you gotta block somebody"  but never a who or how.   No teaching, no filming (although I have filmed) no eval process at the beginning of the season just very poorly run.  I have seen youth programs run way better with volunteer coaches.  When I was a player we had a very well run successful program that gives me my perspective on how it could be or should be run.  We had 2 conference championships, a state semi final appearance and state title in my junior and senior year.  My coaches yelled a lot but it was for motivation not in the condescending way his coaches seem to do.  Anyway he (my son) has 3 years of High school left and it sucks that he may only play the last two if at all due to shitty coaching.  He also plays and loves lacrosse and those coaches but its not football his words not mine.

That's a bummer. Any possibility of transfer? Here in CA you can tansfer between freshman & sophmore year & still be eligible to play.
It's all about having fun.  But losing aint fun!

Offline jrk5150

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2017, 05:37:57 PM »
coacharnold, I hear you loud and clear, and understand there are many different situations out there.  I will not condemn the group for the individuals.  But too many times there's this automatic reflex that it can never be the coach's fault.  Bullshit.  In fact, I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that it's the coach as often as it is the kid or the parent.  Coaches are human beings, and being a football coach doesn't make one any more or less likely to be a jackass than if he was a car salesmen or business executive.  I get REALLY fired up at the holier than thou attitude I see too often among HS football coaches.  I saw a guy on Huey talking about independent coaches and the load of BS they feed parents and kids - he actually talked about how nobody in the kids' lives but the HS football coach will speak truth to them.  I threw up in my mouth a little.  You've got to be f*cking kidding me - what a laugh that is.  It's just as common for a HS football coach to trample right over a kid who can't help him win.  And you know what?  I even get that - when a town or an administration loses THEIR perspective and makes winning the sole barometer of keeping your job, you're going to get that kind of coach.  Not really even his fault.  But please...it exists, whether it's understandable or not.

I do agree that there are a lot of places where a HS coach is under fire.  There have been some well-publicized situations I've seen where good, well-respected coaches were run out of town by player agents with a grudge.  It's too bad too many schools are being run by spineless administrators.

But it still sucks major balls when a HS coach in any sport is clueless and sucks the joy out of a sport for a kid.

Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2017, 07:01:33 PM »
ARGH!

So much to say about Coaching and the differences between same! What is Glorified in one place is Hated in another!  The only thing I really cant stand is a Sadistic Coach with no other goal!  >:( 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  :)

Offline MHcoach

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2017, 07:15:45 PM »
R

I don't think you quite understand my point of view. I have never said all HS coaches are great. Often I have said that quite a few youth coaches are better than guys getting paid. My point was that often players don't understand what it takes to be part of a large HS program.

Are there miserable HS coaches? Of course, & they can be miserable human beings regardless of their records. However, more often than not, Players & their parents have some culpability.

We have a Senior O Lineman, who will never see the field. This is his fourth year in the program. His brother was a Stud for us. I can't say I never give him grief, because I will give all our players grief. I also ask him if his GPA is still 4.25, & how his classes are going. I "love" him up as much as our star QB. He also understands his role, & always gives an effort. The players that drive me insane are the ones who think we owe them something. They give a half ass effort & wonder why they aren't starting. "Coach I was always a starter, & I am better in the game." I actually had a player tell me this, during the week.

Joe
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Bill Walsh

Offline Coach Smith

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2017, 01:35:19 AM »
That's a bummer. Any possibility of transfer? Here in CA you can tansfer between freshman & sophmore year & still be eligible to play.
No not in our area.   I just hope and pray.   I'm a believer there is a reason for everything even when we don't know what it is or why.
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If any thing goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good, then you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2017, 02:16:36 AM »
I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that it's the coach as often as it is the kid or the parent.

I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that it's most often the coach.

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Offline coacharnold

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2017, 01:36:58 PM »
coacharnold, I hear you loud and clear, and understand there are many different situations out there.  I will not condemn the group for the individuals.  But too many times there's this automatic reflex that it can never be the coach's fault.  Bullshit.  In fact, I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that it's the coach as often as it is the kid or the parent.  Coaches are human beings, and being a football coach doesn't make one any more or less likely to be a jackass than if he was a car salesmen or business executive.  I get REALLY fired up at the holier than thou attitude I see too often among HS football coaches.  I saw a guy on Huey talking about independent coaches and the load of BS they feed parents and kids - he actually talked about how nobody in the kids' lives but the HS football coach will speak truth to them.  I threw up in my mouth a little.  You've got to be f*cking kidding me - what a laugh that is.  It's just as common for a HS football coach to trample right over a kid who can't help him win.  And you know what?  I even get that - when a town or an administration loses THEIR perspective and makes winning the sole barometer of keeping your job, you're going to get that kind of coach.  Not really even his fault.  But please...it exists, whether it's understandable or not.

I do agree that there are a lot of places where a HS coach is under fire.  There have been some well-publicized situations I've seen where good, well-respected coaches were run out of town by player agents with a grudge.  It's too bad too many schools are being run by spineless administrators.

But it still sucks major balls when a HS coach in any sport is clueless and sucks the joy out of a sport for a kid.

And that's what I was saying.  I was agreeing with you and trying to spell out why HS coaches are defensive because they're under so much fire... but I think this is a valid discussion to have and is sometimes the coach's fault.

However, on the flip side... a coach may make some players miserable and hate his guts while others may love playing for him because of how he pushes them or just connects with them personally.  All human relationships are complicated.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: My son's love of football has diminished?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2017, 10:29:13 PM »
Still want to see Coach Smith's explanation of how a coaching staff is moving up in HS.