Author Topic: New Model for Youth Football  (Read 4353 times)

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Offline MHcoach

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Offline Dimson

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2018, 02:31:42 PM »
It makes sense to me. I am ok with it.

Offline ZACH

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2018, 03:42:48 PM »
Rugby has been doing this since the beginning of time...some countries start younger..some older... general conscencus is 10 yrs old plays "barefoot" which is literal and figurative.

The whole shrunken field field i dont like

3 years ago they took kick off out until age 12/13... now this year... shrink fields and have less players...3 years from now theyll all be chearleading!
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Offline Dimson

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2018, 03:57:12 PM »
Rugby has been doing this since the beginning of time...some countries start younger..some older... general conscencus is 10 yrs old plays "barefoot" which is literal and figurative.

The whole shrunken field field i dont like

3 years ago they took kick off out until age 12/13... now this year... shrink fields and have less players...3 years from now theyll all be chearleading!
I like the idea of looking for alternatives instead of just trying to eliminate football. What I don't want is for football to go to flag only. So give me football with smaller teams on a smaller field over flag any day.

Offline ZACH

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2018, 04:01:51 PM »
I like the idea of looking for alternatives instead of just trying to eliminate football. What I don't want is for football to go to flag only. So give me football with smaller teams on a smaller field over flag any day.

Is there data that supports sub 10 year kids have higher injury rates ?

Remember heads up football was advocated by usa football and mandated through pop warner... now look...theyre shoulder tackling 2 years later "hawk tackling".

Its all PR...worry about high school and college kids...those kids are the ones facing big collisions.
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Offline Dimson

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2018, 04:09:20 PM »
Is there data that supports sub 10 year kids have higher injury rates ?

Remember heads up football was advocated by usa football and mandated through pop warner... now look...theyre shoulder tackling 2 years later "hawk tackling".

Its all PR...worry about high school amd college kids...those kids are the ones facing big collisions.
I agree with you. It is all PR. 100%. But I still prefer real football over flag football. How does rugby work at younger ages? When do they go full contact?

Offline ZACH

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2018, 04:18:16 PM »
I agree with you. It is all PR. 100%. But I still prefer real football over flag football. How does rugby work at younger ages? When do they go full contact?

They don't go tackle until 14 or jr high here in the states.

Most other countries start around 10 yrs old.

Rugby below that is flag.

Rugby also has a high skill gap then football so the focus is ball movement passing, catching,  being behind the ball ect.

Football is line up and hit with only 3 arguabley skills happening per play... snap..to qb.. to ball carrier.

Wanna see good football? Take away face masks and give them softer pads on their shoulders and chest. Youll see very little concussions then.
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Online mahonz

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2018, 04:21:26 PM »
All of the Independents in the Denver Metro have played on 60x40 yard fields at the younger levels then move the traditional fields for the older kids. Its all 11 on 11. Its kinda weird because the length of all penalties are now reduced as well to include the size of the goal posts. It was this way when I played as a kid in the 1960's.

I have no clue why they have been doing this but maybe they were simply ahead of their time. 

Anyway....I see no issue with this plan because we do it already....less the 7 man format. 22 Smurfs fit just fine on a reduced field. Although going to a 7 man format will help keep Divisions in tact. Less players means more teams. I would have picked 8 man since there is already a NFHS Rule book they can follow but USA Football never seems to think logically until after they realize how illogically they think.
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Offline Dusty Ol Fart

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2018, 04:27:06 PM »
I agree, in principle, with the proposals.  Yet it does seem funny that they (USA FOOTBALL-NFL) wants us to do everything that they cannot enforce at the NFL level.   

The proposed "Dave Duerson Act" is the "Add On" to the threatened law suit against Pop Warner in the Chicago area.   That threat led to Mandatory Trainers, Reduced, Contact, etc.  Same Person was integral in both.

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Offline CoachDP

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2018, 01:39:36 AM »
It was just a matter of time.  About a decade ago, USAFootball came out with a youth football "rule book" (i.e., The World According to USAFootball).  Interesting to issue a rule book when they had no league of their own.  And now, Pop Warner has finally kowtowed.  Not that it really matters much, at this point.  Their "Rookie Tackle League" is nothing more than a stop-gap between Flag and Mitey-Mite.  I don't really seeing it make much of an impact there.  This was on the Pop Warner site:  "Rookie Tackle was created to introduce tackle football to younger players, and was created with input from youth football league leaders throughout the United States, who have modified the rules of the game based on player development."  I wonder if anyone here was consulted?  Anyhoos, considering that youth teams and orgs are dying out like the dinosaur, I can't see their approach hurting anything.

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« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 02:15:21 AM by CoachDP »
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2018, 08:55:44 AM »


Wanna see good football? Take away face masks and give them softer pads on their shoulders and chest. Youll see very little concussions then.

Amen. Been saying that for years, except I was advocating a hockey helmet and hockey/lacross shoulder pads.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2018, 09:17:03 AM »
What's interesting is that USA Hockey also has a developmental model called the "American Developmental Model" (ADM). This mandated cross ice and half ice games for players 8 and under. It also eliminated score keeping, stats and dedicated goalies. It was done not for safety, but with the goal of making American hockey more competitive on the world stage, mainly the Junior (U20) World Championship, the World Championship and the Olympics. This was all done to make sure more kids touch the puck more often. My 19 year old son was in the first group of kids to go through this.

12 years later, the states who continue produce the best hockey players (MN, MI, ME, MA) have never adopted the ADM. Players who make the US National Developmental Programs represent .1% of US hockey players. Players who actually make the National team represent 10% of that. So all that to benefit the top .01% of US hockey players.

Unintended consequences of forcing the majority of hockey programs into a "one size fits all" model:

* 10U programs have to absolutely scramble to develop goalies. Leagues are dominated by programs who cheat and allow dedicated goalies at 8U.
* Once players hit 10U, they have a very short time to adjust to the new icing and offside rules. 10U games are dominated by whistles and faceoffs.
* 10U Kids who can skate and stick handle hog the puck and dominate their leagues (which is the situation that caused the ADM to be created in the first place).
* Alternative leagues/governing bodies started popping up that don't adhere to the ADM. USA Hockey responded by declaring that anyone participating in a non-USA Hockey team/program/tournament/game would be ineligible to play USA Hockey. (Sound familiar Pop Warner?). Subsequently, AAU (alternative governing body) filed anti-trust lawsuits in several states and prevailed.
*****Many parents decided to forego 8U hockey and wait until 10U to allow their kids to play "real hockey".

It appears to me that rookie tackle is similar enough to the older divisions that this may not be an issue, but be aware that if parents really want their kids to play 11 man, 100 yard football, someone will accommodate them. As Mahonz said, the two big leagues in Denver play on reduced fields and that doesn't seem to bother anyone. I do wonder if 7 on 7 would give the impression that this is not "real football" and influence some parents to either look for alternatives or just wait until their kid is old enough for 11 on 11.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 09:32:14 AM by gumby_in_co »
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Offline Spyder89

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2018, 09:26:18 AM »
So...our league was doing a clinic for all of the coaches on Saturday.  I just received an email with a brochure on this and a new schedule for the clinic.  They've dedicated about an hour for talks on how we are going to implement this and everyone at the clinic must go.

Not sure how I feel about the whole thing, but I wonder how many people won't participate now until they are allowed to play "real football"
Not saying it's gong to happen, just a quandary.

Offline angalton

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2018, 02:41:45 PM »
What a joke!!
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: New Model for Youth Football
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2018, 03:39:22 PM »
Not sure how I feel about the whole thing, but I wonder how many people won't participate now until they are allowed to play "real football"

Most youth football has never been "real football."  Striper rules, weight limits, MPRs, 8-minute quarters, no kick-offs, no punts, no lining up over the Center, strange XP rules, no blitzing, limiting defensive fronts, scores not kept, game duration determined by play-counts instead of a clock, Slaughter Rules (no passing the ball, no running sweeps) etc.  When was youth football "real football?"  I'm not panning it.  I coached it for 15 years.  But I don't see what USAFootball and Pop Warner are doing between the Tiny Mite and Mitey-Mite levels as an issue.

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