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Author Topic: Thoughts about this process of getting film.  (Read 1563 times)

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Offline TigerMOJO

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Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« on: October 24, 2018, 01:44:28 PM »
Want you guys opinion on this situation.

Our League is pretty big, Average 45 team per grade 1st-6th and 20 7th.

Over the last few yrs previous to this one there has always been a group that you could pay like $80 a game to go film an opponent or whatever film you need.

This year this group and another started a program kind of like Hudl. But they put all the film they get on there but charges teams $700 for their service. So a team that pays the $700 can have every game of every team they play. Where a team that can't afford to pay that $700 has to go get film when they can or if they can. IMO this is basically cheating if you have the $$ to pay up. Couple of these coaches won't even share film with you of them even though they have every game you played for the season. And IMO that is a weak approach to being a football coach.

Do you guy veteran guys think this should be ok? Are we one of those teams that can't pay that...yes! But I'm also the coach that will trade any team film for film because I believe its a part of the game. And yes I do go get the scout film if a coach is not willingly to trade and most are not.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2018, 01:57:30 PM »
IMO this is basically cheating if you have the $$ to pay up.

--Not sure I'm understanding the cheating part of this...

Do you guy veteran guys think this should be ok? Are we one of those teams that can't pay that...yes!

--So other teams pay $700 and because you can't afford it, you believe you should get it for free?  Hmmm...

--Dave

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Offline TigerMOJO

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2018, 02:08:06 PM »
Team A gets every game film cuz they can afford to pay $700. Team B can't afford it and may not be able to get film of team A cuz of game times etc. IMO that is basically a cheat for Team A cuz Team B can't afford it.

Now me...we get film. I make it happen so this isn't really personal but just my opinion of the whole situation.

I really think they are getting over on Youth coaches. And putting the teams that does pay the fee at an advantage over the teams that can't pay it. IMO this doesn't make an even playing field. Youth has all these rules to keep things even and then or league allows this.

And on top of that... Why charge so much to have film when there is other ways everyone could share film a lot cheaper.
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Offline coachmiket

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2018, 02:14:52 PM »
Coaches are always going on and on about how sports can help teach so many life lessons.  Seems like this is one of those moments.....

There are the haves and the have nots.
Life isn't fair.
Sometimes other people have better advantages than you.
Money talks.

Choose one. Or more.

I'm sure I left some out.

Just my view.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2018, 02:24:57 PM »
IMO that is basically a cheat for Team A cuz Team B can't afford it.

--Regardless of how you choose to look at it, it is not cheating.  Choose a different word.

Now me...we get film. I make it happen so this isn't really personal but just my opinion of the whole situation.

--So you can't afford it.  Thus, you don't use the service.  But you still find a way to get film anyway.  (Sounds to me like the orgs that spent $700 for something they could have gotten for free are the ones getting cheated.)

And putting the teams that does pay the fee at an advantage over the teams that can't pay it.

--You just said that you don't pay for it but that it doesn't affect your team.

IMO this doesn't make an even playing field. Youth has all these rules to keep things even and then or league allows this.

--You don't have to use Hudl.  But some teams do.  Should the use of Hudl be banned because some teams can't afford it?

Why charge so much to have film when there is other ways everyone could share film a lot cheaper.

--I'm hoping this is a rhetorical question, but if it isn't...the reason they charge what they do is because there are teams willing to pay for that service.

--Dave
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Offline Seabass

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2018, 02:27:34 PM »
It might suck but it's not cheating....$700 makes Hudl look cheap.

A team with money could have all sorts of advantages over a team without money...that doesn't make them "cheater's".

Offline TigerMOJO

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2018, 03:05:38 PM »
I guess i see your point. It's just an advantage not cheating.

And it's $700 per team not Organization. That would be nothing. If every team paid that would be over 200,000 they grossed. IMO for youth football that is crazy! We are volunteers! I don't have kids playing.

So your telling me that HS's pay over $700 a season to have hudl and to share film on Hudl? My renewal fee for Hudl this year would've been $200 it said.

At the end of the day I think a coach going into a game knowing they have all the film in the world but not willing to share their film at all is a Weak Coach! Honestly I wouldn't call him a coach at all but a glorified dad...which that's what I did lol like it or not...
Film is a part of the game and we getting some tech guru a big paycheck for filming youth football!
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Offline TigerMOJO

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2018, 03:11:36 PM »
Does anyone else's leagues have a service like this?
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 03:24:55 PM »
I guess i see your point. It's just an advantage not cheating.

--Heck, it's not even an advantage if every team were as serious as you about getting film.  That's really what this comes down to.  If you want film, it's still free.  I've driven to other states to scout teams where it was only a possibility that we'd see each other in the play-offs.

If every team paid that would be over 200,000 they grossed. IMO for youth football that is crazy! We are volunteers! I don't have kids playing.

--So what?  You aren't paying for the service either.  So who cares how much something costs that you don't pay for?  I don't own a Maserati but I don't have a problem with those that do.  Although I'm still working on Deb about the Jag...Dadgummed house gets blown away in a hurricane and now my Christmas list has gone to seed...

At the end of the day I think a coach going into a game knowing they have all the film in the world but not willing to share their film at all is a Weak Coach!

--I disagree.  If I had paid $700 to get something, I doubt that I'm going to turn around and give it away to those that chose not to.

Honestly I wouldn't call him a coach at all but a glorified dad...which that's what I did lol like it or not.

--"Glorified dad?"  Not sure that makes sense, but okay. ::)

Film is a part of the game and we getting some tech guru a big paycheck for filming youth football!

--Yes, it's called, "Supply and demand."  He provides a service and those that want it, pay for it.

--Dave

« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 03:30:11 PM by CoachDP »
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2018, 03:37:03 PM »
When I coached youth football in Durham, we had lights on our practice field.  Where I coach now, we post up generator lights and automobile headlights.  Even with what we have, it's horrible.  We can see, but barely.  The fact that my previous org raised $50,000+ and got a matching grant from the NFL to purchase lights for their practice field isn't fair.  This is youth football.  Where am I going to get $50k from?  I'm a volunteer.  In Durham, they are able to have longer, safer practices with the ability to get a better quality of practice than we are.  I think I'll write them a letter and complain about this rip-off.  As a matter of fact, I should write Pop Warner.  They pretend to be about all the teams and kids, but this advantage is egregious and shouldn't be tolerated.  As a matter of fact, I think it's cheating.

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Offline SingleWingGoombah

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2018, 03:59:27 PM »
When I coached youth football in Durham, we had lights on our practice field.  Where I coach now, we post up generator lights and automobile headlights.  Even with what we have, it's horrible.  We can see, but barely.  The fact that my previous org raised $50,000+ and got a matching grant from the NFL to purchase lights for their practice field isn't fair.  This is youth football.  Where am I going to get $50k from?  I'm a volunteer.  In Durham, they are able to have longer, safer practices with the ability to get a better quality of practice than we are.  I think I'll write them a letter and complain about this rip-off.  As a matter of fact, I should write Pop Warner.  They pretend to be about all the teams and kids, but this advantage is egregious and shouldn't be tolerated.  As a matter of fact, I think it's cheating.

--Dave

Man I can relate to the lights... Our normal practice field has no lights.  After Game 7, we switch to a different practice field, but those last couple of weeks... we get an hour of decent practice, and then 30 minutes of bad practice.  You can see it in performance in week 6 and 7 usually.  Then it snaps back up after we move to the lighted park. 

Offline Seabass

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2018, 04:16:17 PM »
When I coached youth football in Durham, we had lights on our practice field.  Where I coach now, we post up generator lights and automobile headlights.  Even with what we have, it's horrible.  We can see, but barely.  The fact that my previous org raised $50,000+ and got a matching grant from the NFL to purchase lights for their practice field isn't fair.  This is youth football.  Where am I going to get $50k from?  I'm a volunteer.  In Durham, they are able to have longer, safer practices with the ability to get a better quality of practice than we are.  I think I'll write them a letter and complain about this rip-off.  As a matter of fact, I should write Pop Warner.  They pretend to be about all the teams and kids, but this advantage is egregious and shouldn't be tolerated.  As a matter of fact, I think it's cheating.

--Dave

We had a dad with 2 generators. We would hang contractor lights from the goal posts and do what we could to squeeze in a practice.

Offline Malibu

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2018, 04:28:51 PM »
Tiger -  I agree with you that it is BS.  Years ago, an outfit tried to sell the same thing to teams in our org (exactly the same size as yours).  The league shut it down.  Our league does not allow teams to video games in which they are not playing.  Coaches can scout, but not video.  If teams choose to exchange video prior to a game, that is allowed.  I like the rule.  We are talking about youth sports. 

Offline COACH JC

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2018, 04:42:28 PM »
Tiger -  I agree with you that it is BS.  Years ago, an outfit tried to sell the same thing to teams in our org (exactly the same size as yours).  The league shut it down.  Our league does not allow teams to video games in which they are not playing.  Coaches can scout, but not video.  If teams choose to exchange video prior to a game, that is allowed.  I like the rule.  We are talking about youth sports.

Youíre not really in agreement tho. You believe in no filming. Tiger thinks itís unfair that some teams can get film w/o having to work for it. 2 completely different issues.

if the league allows filming, how your opponents get it shouldn't be of concern to you. Some people believe time is $. And so by driving & filming yourself, youíre spending more than the $700 they are.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2018, 05:47:32 PM »
Sorry Tiger. I'm not seeing it. We have film of nearly every team we played this season and didn't pay a dime. We did pay for HUDL, so we could upload and share film. Not every team in our league was willing to pay for HUDL. Does that make us cheaters? Not in my opinion. We will share film with anyone a long as it doesn't put us at a disadvantage. Does that make us cheaters or "Glorified Dads"? Not in my opinion.

Once while scouting, I chatted with a coach from a rival team who was scouting the same game. I was up on my step ladder filming with my HD camcorder. He was on the ground filming with his iPhone.  I was willing to put a little more money and effort into our scout film than he was.

We didn't have film of our last opponent, so a rival coach offered his film. Someone's wife was filming from field level and I think her tripod was about 3 feet off the ground. On top of that, she would point the camera in the general direction of the play (when she remembered) and would move it every 4 plays or so if the line of scrimmage moved significantly. We, on the other hand have a dedicated video dad who spends the entire game on the ladder and gives us top notch film. We have fired kids and parents for producing film that isn't up to our standards.

So in my opinion, it comes down to your particular economics. How important is having good film to you? $700 worth of important? I wouldn't pay that much, but I'd still have film. Paying more or working harder than your opponent doesn't make you a cheater. I do agree that it sucks that your league seems to endorse this.

Here's an idea.  Why not organize a free film exchange with the coaches who are willing to burn a few hours a week filming?
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