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Author Topic: Thoughts about this process of getting film.  (Read 1711 times)

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Offline TigerMOJO

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2018, 05:53:41 PM »
OK DP I get your point....life isn't fair!

Question for you DP kinda off basis of issue but this is why I called them Glorified Dads...Which I apologized and said regardless shouldn't do that because they are volunteering their time to coach like everybody else. Scenario Team A (Best team in the league by far atleast starting the season...closest opponent was within 3 TDS, shut the scoreboard off on everybody else). If your Team A and paid the $ and Team B didn't pay the $ and just couldn't make it to your game before y'all played to get film. Team B ask you if you could share a game film with them, would you as a coach competitor or would you not as a getting film competitor? This wasn't me but another team...as I stated I got the film I need.

JC time is Money but no way I spend $700 traveling to get film....Its all pretty local no more than an hr away if that. But still with game times and stuff like that it is hard to get around and get every game film of all your opponents. Thats where it gets to be an advantage for the payers. I get its a service and use it if you can but some just can't. I damn sho can't...Full time Student, Work, Family and Coaching, with no kids playing. I usually get my film from other coaches and I do the same for them....but not EVERY game. Always have add ins for playoffs so its not that for me...Its just IMO I still believe that if one team can get ALL of your games and you can't afford that service is def an advantage...Haves and Have nots I guess like DP said. My lil ol town is not a privileged town at all....We do have a Walmart tho lol

Never the less I already know you life isn't fair and I teach this for years. But lets say we're talking HS, College, Pro, would it be right for one team to have the advanatage over the other just because their budget is higher than others? To me film is a part of the game. And if your not willingly to share it you really can't call yourself a true Football Coach and I will always believe that no matter the level of the game!!
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Offline TigerMOJO

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2018, 05:56:13 PM »
It wasn't the point of my thread but...

Gumby thats my point as far as glorified dads....this one team in particular is the top dog but will not share film...to me your not a coach if you can't share at least one of your games.
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Offline TigerMOJO

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2018, 06:37:49 PM »
Again I get film I need...but my problem is I think the league allowing this is a mistake. Our league preaches on everybody being on the same level of rules. For example if the heat index is 110 then nobody can practice indoors or anything. We have off Labor Day weekend and it is against the rules for any team to go play in a tournament or anything can't even practice. We have a three-level weight limits. I just don't think this helps the playing field to be level because ofo the fact of different economical issues in different places. And honestly I think the league is probably getting a penny off of this also.

 and honestly I was trying to get opinions from around the nation for future references for this league. This is my last year coaching youth football so it's not a big concern for me personally but I just don't think it's the right way to go about it. Just my opinion
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Offline COACH JC

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2018, 06:48:40 PM »
OK DP I get your point....life isn't fair!

Question for you DP kinda off basis of issue but this is why I called them Glorified Dads...Which I apologized and said regardless shouldn't do that because they are volunteering their time to coach like everybody else. Scenario Team A (Best team in the league by far atleast starting the season...closest opponent was within 3 TDS, shut the scoreboard off on everybody else). If your Team A and paid the $ and Team B didn't pay the $ and just couldn't make it to your game before y'all played to get film. Team B ask you if you could share a game film with them, would you as a coach competitor or would you not as a getting film competitor? This wasn't me but another team...as I stated I got the film I need.

JC time is Money but no way I spend $700 traveling to get film....Its all pretty local no more than an hr away if that. But still with game times and stuff like that it is hard to get around and get every game film of all your opponents. Thats where it gets to be an advantage for the payers. I get its a service and use it if you can but some just can't. I damn sho can't...Full time Student, Work, Family and Coaching, with no kids playing. I usually get my film from other coaches and I do the same for them....but not EVERY game. Always have add ins for playoffs so its not that for me...Its just IMO I still believe that if one team can get ALL of your games and you can't afford that service is def an advantage...Haves and Have nots I guess like DP said. My lil ol town is not a privileged town at all....We do have a Walmart tho lol

Never the less I already know you life isn't fair and I teach this for years. But lets say we're talking HS, College, Pro, would it be right for one team to have the advanatage over the other just because their budget is higher than others? To me film is a part of the game. And if your not willingly to share it you really can't call yourself a true Football Coach and I will always believe that no matter the level of the game!!

Itís definitely an advantage.

As far as HS, college, pro? Iíd say that it exists to an even more extreme amount at all 3 levels.

Some areas have better athletes. some areas have more $. Some have more players. Just part of the deal. If we all started at the same place every game would end in a tie. Just gotta figure out how to tilt hings back toward your favor.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2018, 08:52:05 PM »
OK DP I get your point....life isn't fair!

No, you don't get my point.  At all.  This is completely fair.  The teams that are willing to pay for film, do so.  Those who aren't willing to pay for it, but want film (like yourself) make sure they go out and get it.  Those who don't want to pay for it and aren't interested in getting it, don't.  EVERYONE is getting what they want.  How in the world is this not fair?

What if the league rule required every team who could afford it, to pay it?  I'd be livid.  I can afford it, but I have my own video people and they already know what I want in my game film and how I want it shot.  Would it be fair to make me pay for it anyway, or give me a CHOICE of choosing whether I wanted to buy the service?  You have that choice.  Nothing more fair than that.

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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2018, 09:09:28 PM »
Question for you DP kinda off basis of issue but this is why I called them Glorified Dads.

--But what is a "Glorified Dad?"  Is it someone who pretends to be a dad, but really isn't?

Scenario Team A (Best team in the league by far atleast starting the season...closest opponent was within 3 TDS, shut the scoreboard off on everybody else). If your Team A and paid the $ and Team B didn't pay the $ and just couldn't make it to your game before y'all played to get film. Team B ask you if you could share a game film with them, would you as a coach competitor or would you not as a getting film competitor? This wasn't me but another team...as I stated I got the film I need.

--I go out and get my own film.  Always have.  Even if I were paying for the service to get a different angle, I'd still go out and get my own film.  Am I going to give film of myself, to an opponent who doesn't have film of me?  No.  For what reason would I do that?  I have film of them because I went out to get film of them, or I paid to get film of them.  If they can't take the time to get film of me, that's their business.  If they don't fundraise in the off season to be able to pay for film, that's their business.  I'm not going to tell them how to run their team.   Add to that, I have a network of coaches I trade film with.  I'll send you my Game vs. X this week, if you send me your Game vs. Y in two weeks.  In the end, it's that team's responsibility to get what they need.  I have shields that I spent $600 for back in the day when I "couldn't afford it."  Should I not have spent my money on it, when there's other coaches out there who also couldn't afford it?

And if your not willingly to share it you really can't call yourself a true Football Coach and I will always believe that no matter the level of the game!

--Then we have different definitions of what a "true football coach" is.  I'm still wondering if you have a definition for "Glorified Dad?"

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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2018, 09:18:38 PM »
Haves and Have nots I guess like DP said.

I'm not talking about Haves and Have Nots.  That implies that there's deserving people out there who aren't getting their fair share.  In the case you described, everyone gets what they want.  I'm talking about Choose and Choose Nots.  Some chose to buy the service.  Some chose not to.  I imagine that some fund-raised in the off-season to be able to afford it.  Some budgeted for it.  Others think the price is outrageous and there's little to be gained from film, anyway.  In the end, if you don't have it but wanted it, then you should have figured out a way and the options here are pretty easy.  You figured it out.  What's stopping anyone else?

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Offline davecisar

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2018, 09:27:32 PM »
How am I cheating
If I choose to pay someone to film vs going there myself and filming it myself
Here my travel time and film time would put me at about $25 an hour
I value my weekend time at more than that not even counting wear and tear on my vehicle


I could care less if anyone films themselves or values their free time at more than $25 per hour and no one is ever obligated to share their film
Especially film they paid for or spent their free time getting versus  someone who put zero effort or money into filming
I owe someone film who made zero effort? Or spent no money? I hate this thing where everyone feels entitled to someone elses work, money or better choices

No one owes anyone anything especially if it cost someone money or time

I could care less if a filming company makes nothing or a million dollars
No one has a gun to anyoneís head requiring them to buy
The market determines value
Donít covet

Itís disappointing many donít understand basic economics or the absolute superiority of capitalism
Guess I shouldnít be surprised the poplarity of Bernie sanders free stuff approach
Literally makes me sick to my stomach thinking about the absolute absurdity of it all

How am I a bad guy if I value my free weekend time at more than $25 an hour which is 50k per year???????
I would GLADLY pay someone $700 to film all my games


« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 10:26:52 PM by davecisar »
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2018, 10:35:56 PM »
I guess i see your point. It's just an advantage not cheating.

And it's $700 per team not Organization. That would be nothing. If every team paid that would be over 200,000 they grossed. IMO for youth football that is crazy! We are volunteers! I don't have kids playing.

So your telling me that HS's pay over $700 a season to have hudl and to share film on Hudl? My renewal fee for Hudl this year would've been $200 it said.

At the end of the day I think a coach going into a game knowing they have all the film in the world but not willing to share their film at all is a Weak Coach! Honestly I wouldn't call him a coach at all but a glorified dad...which that's what I did lol like it or not...
Film is a part of the game and we getting some tech guru a big paycheck for filming youth football!

Bill Gates charges X for windows based on supply and demand
He already has billions- why should he be allowed to make any more money or charge more than a totally nominal amount?
WHO CAREs that hes made BILLIONS- there are other options

Someone that doesnt understand business
NOT every team is buying the service
NET is what matters not gross and gross is not 200k NOT EVEN CLOSE
He has to:
Hire filmers- GOOD LUCK WITH THAT
Pay filmers- and either pay taxes or go rogue and go 1099- both are a hassle
train filmers
schedule filmers and get them to show up- GOOD LUCK WITH THAT
Gather film
Upload film
Distribute film- software
do quality control
do customer service
Market
bill- collect
Bookkeeping
Legal

For all that work and aggravating he isnt making jack squat

If he Was- guess what- someone else would come in and offer the service at a cheaper price   ::) ::)
That' s called capitalism
Really frightening people dont get it and why Sanders- Cortez are getting traction
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 10:42:09 PM by davecisar »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline COACH JC

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2018, 10:36:37 PM »
To be clear, I do get why itís frustrating when other teams have advantages you donít. But in my experience, those disadvantages usually make you a better coach.  When you really have to work for everything, not only does it sharpen you, but it makes the success that much more gratifying.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2018, 12:14:26 AM »
It wasn't the point of my thread but...

Gumby thats my point as far as glorified dads....this one team in particular is the top dog but will not share film...to me your not a coach if you can't share at least one of your games.

I'm unclear about which film they are unwilling to share. If someone asked me for film of my team, I'd probably hurt myself from laughing so hard. If we're talking about film of a common opponent, personally, I'd probably share it unless I had a reason not to. If I didn't share it and that caused somebody, or 8 somebodies, or 800 somebodies label me as "not a coach", I could live with that and I'd sleep like a baby at night.  We spent $200 for HUDL this season. Should I let another coach use my HUDL username and password to watch film because he can't afford it? If I don't, does that disqualify me as a "real coach"? The team that was sharing a practice field with us spent their HUDL money on a tackle donut. We were unwilling to buy one. Should they let us use their donut? Are they fake coaches if they don't?

On the other side of that coin, I would have to be really good friends (I'm talking "will you help me move" friends) with a guy to ask him for film knowing he'd paid $700 for a service to get that film.

Is the service an advantage? Yes. Definitely. Is it an unfair advantage? Absolutely not.

I have a pre-rehearsed speech for people who confront me at games for scouting. They usually start in with "which one is your kid?" I know what they're getting at, so I don't hesitate to tell them I coach with the Arvada Outlaws and that I'm scouting. A few have asked something like "how do we know you're not some weirdo"? I respond, "you don't." Eventually, they ask "Don't you think filming x year olds is a little over the top?" (or words to that effect). The rest goes like this:

Me: "I'm not trying to provoke you, but would you mind answering honestly?  Are your players lazy?"
Mom/Dad: "Certainly not. Our boys work very hard every week."
Me: "Of course they do. Is it because the coaches insist that everyone hustles, no one walks on the field, and everyone gives 100% effort all the time?"
Mom/Dad: "Yes. Our coaches really push the kids to give their very best."
Me: "Then why aren't your coaches willing to hustle for your players if it might help them win a game? Scouting over the course of the season is hard. Staying home in the name of "not being over the top" is easy.

That's usually when they decide to talk to their son's coach about scouting.

Quote
But still with game times and stuff like that it is hard to get around and get every game film of all your opponents.

Yes, it is. I personally spent my valuable weekend time and gas money to sit on a ladder in the cold, rain, sun and/or wind to film 5 out of 8 opponents. In my experience, nothing about the game of football is easy.

Not meaning to pick on you, but your argument smacks of special rules that "coach proof" the game. No A gap blitzing because not every coach is willing to work hard enough to address A gap blitzes.
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Offline TigerMOJO

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2018, 12:44:31 AM »
"Glorified dads" dads pretending to be "coaches". There is plenty in this world.

IMO part of the art of "Coaching" football is to disect film and game plan against another coach that is doing the same to you. Thats why I will trade my film with anybody. I really dont want to go into a game with out us both studying film....I want my players to out play yours and I want to out coach you! For that to happen we both need to have film of each other....as a competitor!

Nobody asking for anything free Cisar....we're talking football not political views....im saying make it a level playing field! In this scenario it is level at every level but youth cuz Im pretty sure in HS here at least you are required to share film...same at every level above that. Why is it required if it's not part of the game? It is 100% part of the game! So does one team cuz they have more $$ be able to have an advantage on a team that doesn't have the $$ in this aspect when IT IS PART OF THE GAME? Im not saying its not fair that Team A has more tackling dummies better equipment for practice better uniforms etc...

Scouting has always been heavy in this league...this is my 15th season and the good ones always scouted. And as far as fund raising before season to pay for the services couldn't happen this yr cuz nobody knew about it until our big conference meeting a week before practice started and had to be paid in 2 weeks. Im sure some will get it figured out for next yr.

I see you guys won't see my point and thats fine. I respect you guys cuz you've been doing this a lot longer than me and learned a ton from you guys.. especially DP and Cisar reading this forum for over 6 yrs. Thats why I posted it here. But I will stand by my opinion of...if your not willing to share your film then your really not coaching the game to its entirety!! The advantage should be your a better coach than your opponent..(all aspects not just game day)...not know everything they do vs them knowing nothing of you! I dont know anybody that would have the time and resources to get EVERY game of ALL your opponents in a season. 1 or 3 games yeah but every one of them? Yes its smart for those that went that route but its also an advantage and when you have that kind of advantage and wont even share ONE of your games...your not a true football coach to its entirety...thats where the glorfied dad comes to play for me DP. Because IMO a real coach isnt worried about you having film of them but more worried about planning to play you!


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Offline TigerMOJO

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2018, 12:56:01 AM »
Not going to lie...to hear some of y'all long time coaches that will not share film has mr questioning a lot. I guess answer this one for me then guys. Why do Football Coaches HS and above share film? Why are they required to share film?
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2018, 01:42:58 AM »
Some coaches have a real eye for the game. They can watch a play and without batting an eye tell you that the left guard is taking too long of a snap, the FB is taking a bad kick out path and the WR doesn't know how to stalk block. I am not one of those coaches. I attempt to make up for that by working my tail off. So if I go out and get film (or I mow lawns all summer to raise $700 to buy film), upload that film, watch that film, re-watch that film and design several drills to address what I see on that film . . . I have zero sympathy for my opponent who doesn't have that film. If he tells me he was not able to get that film, I will not believe him because he could have:
* had another coach go and film
* had a parent go and film
* had a friend or family member go and film
* made a deal with another coach to go and film
* made a deal with another coach to trade film
* hire a HS kid to go and film
* checked the Nextdoor app for a kid looking to make extra money for college and pay that kid to go and film

There are MANY aspects of the game that many coaches under coach or don't coach at all. If you ask them why, you'll get some BS about "this is only x year old ball. We just need to focus on the basics", but it really boils down to "I can't be bothered to learn this and pass it on to my players".

Work ethic is really what separates "real coaches" from the fake ones. I worry about me and could give a crap how opponents choose to prepare. Refusing to watch film of an opponent because he doesn't have film of us? I just cannot wrap my head around that. You really lost me there.

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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2018, 01:59:45 AM »
Sorry, but I just can't let this go. You've said a lot about leveling the playing field. We work our tails off to "un-level" the playing field.
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