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Author Topic: Thoughts about this process of getting film.  (Read 1712 times)

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Offline davecisar

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2018, 05:19:35 AM »
Sorry, but I just can't let this go. You've said a lot about leveling the playing field. We work our tails off to "un-level" the playing field.

Agreed

Im supposed to share my film even though I figured out and put the effort into getting film- which is VERY doable
My extra effort or payment isnt being rewarded because Im somehow required to share that advantage with someone WHO DIDNT LIFT A FINGER or pay one red cent?
IF that coach who bought the $700 service is sharing the purchased film with someone who should have bought it himself for his own team- What's stopping ONE team from buying the film and sharing that film with every team in that division- thereby depriving the filming company of the revenue they should have gotten from those other teams? The company doing the filming stops operating at a loss on that scenario real quick and those who could have benefited from the film lose out

The High School example is BULLSHIT- its a rule AND there is legit value being traded
Me giving you my film and getting nothing in return that I dont already have- is not a value trade

The playing field is never level
We play against teams ALL the time with lots more size and speed- practice more etc etc etc

If were going to level the playing field- then make sure you have the same number of MPRs as me- same number of level 9,8,7 players etc
Also since some games kids are out sick- we have to make sure we trade out those kids too- one of my 7s is out, one of your 7s have to sit etc
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 07:00:18 AM by davecisar »
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Offline angalton

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2018, 06:59:36 AM »
This feels like an auto excuse. If the teams that have film wins, then that is the reason. Play aggressive, mistake free football and you will probably come out on top regardless.
The greatest accomplishment is not in never failing, but in rising again after you fail.

Offline TigerMOJO

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2018, 08:27:52 AM »
I mean I'm baffled really. Film is a part of this game...I'm not talking about jimmies and Joe's or how a team practices...I'm talking Film... which is a part of every level above youth which tells me personally its a part of the game period. I coach Semi Pro and we're Required to share film....cuz that's what coaches do.

I'm inspiring to coach HS. Graduate college May '19. So I guess I just view it diff and that's ok.

Now take note ...I do understand that the teams paying $700 dont have an obligation to share their film and don't think they should have to....I'm just saying me personally I would. Not every game but give them something if they ask.

Now back to OP. I still don't think the league should allow that service. Like I said next yr I'm sure more will be prepared to pay it but some will still not and as y'all say that's on them. I see that point.

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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2018, 09:17:10 AM »
If we're talking about film of a common opponent, personally, I'd probably share it unless I had a reason not to.

Agree, I have never turned down anyone’s request for scout film when they were interested in seeing my opponent.

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Offline Monster

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2018, 09:25:22 AM »
Sorry, but I just can't let this go. You've said a lot about leveling the playing field. We work our tails off to "un-level" the playing field.

There is no such thing as a fair fight.

If you are preparing for a fair fight, then you are preparing to lose.
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Offline Seabass

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2018, 09:38:17 AM »
The league I coach in has no “requirement” to share film with another school. Yet, somehow we all end up with film of each other.


Offline CoachDP

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2018, 09:43:02 AM »
I guess answer this one for me then guys. Why do Football Coaches HS and above share film? Why are they required to share film?

We were required to share film because there is a rule that you cannot film a game that you are not participating in.  So if I'm playing Riverdale High next week, the only way I can get film is if they send theirs to me and I send mine to them.  It is illegal for me to film them previously to having played them.  That's why sharing video is required.

In youth ball, most of our opponents don't even record their game.  Or if they do, it's a parent with a phone from a bad angle.  If we're playing in a high school stadium, there's only ONE person filming from on top of the press box.  Mine.  If we're on a middle school field with a poor view, I drive my van with a hunter stand on the roof and set up.  Again, I don't see any opponent doing this.  How am I going to trade video with an opponent that doesn't even have video?

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Offline SingleWingGoombah

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2018, 09:52:08 AM »
Agreed

Im supposed to share my film even though I figured out and put the effort into getting film- which is VERY doable
My extra effort or payment isnt being rewarded because Im somehow required to share that advantage with someone WHO DIDNT LIFT A FINGER or pay one red cent?
IF that coach who bought the $700 service is sharing the purchased film with someone who should have bought it himself for his own team- What's stopping ONE team from buying the film and sharing that film with every team in that division- thereby depriving the filming company of the revenue they should have gotten from those other teams? The company doing the filming stops operating at a loss on that scenario real quick and those who could have benefited from the film lose out

The High School example is BULLSHIT- its a rule AND there is legit value being traded
Me giving you my film and getting nothing in return that I dont already have- is not a value trade

The playing field is never level
We play against teams ALL the time with lots more size and speed- practice more etc etc etc

If were going to level the playing field- then make sure you have the same number of MPRs as me- same number of level 9,8,7 players etc
Also since some games kids are out sick- we have to make sure we trade out those kids too- one of my 7s is out, one of your 7s have to sit etc

In your book you say you don't mind sharing your own game film with upcoming opponents because you enjoy a competitive game, and want them to be well prepared.

Offline CoachDP

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2018, 09:58:52 AM »
I mean I'm baffled really.

--I am, too.

Film is a part of this game...I'm not talking about jimmies and Joe's or how a team practices...I'm talking Film... which is a part of every level above youth which tells me personally its a part of the game period. I coach Semi Pro and we're Required to share film....cuz that's what coaches do.

--Again, the requirement at the high school level is because teams are forbidden from recording a game of any team where your team isn't participating.  So a required film share is the only way.  I wish we could record opponents because rules that are impossible to enforce are stupid rules and punish the teams that go by the rules.

I'm inspiring to coach HS. Graduate college May '19.

--Congratulations.  That takes a lot of work and you should be proud of your achievement.

I'm just saying me personally I would. Not every game but give them something if they ask.

--Waitaminute, not every game?  Why not?  This is youth ball and the most important thing is a level playing field.  If you don't level it, then who will? ;)

--Dave
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2018, 10:01:29 AM »
In your book you say you don't mind sharing your own game film with upcoming opponents because you enjoy a competitive game, and want them to be well prepared.

Brian, I think DC's position was that he is not obligated to share.  Whether he does or is willing to, is another matter. 

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Offline SingleWingGoombah

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2018, 10:07:13 AM »
Brian, I think DC's position was that he is not obligated to share.  Whether he does or is willing to, is another matter. 

--Dave

Dave, yes, I reread it after you pointed this out.  My mistake!  I agree with your interpretation here.

Offline angalton

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2018, 10:31:33 AM »
You have a couple options: 1 Have a rule put in about game videos 2 Only worry about what you can control. This is not a knock on you at all. You can't control another coach, you cant control the current state of your rules. As a rant I understand your point.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2018, 10:42:10 AM »
Sharing my game film of my own team is a nice sentiment, but if I agree to do it, make no mistake. It means that I don't think very much of your team at all, nor do I think you have a prayer of beating us. A few games ago, we played an opponent with zero subs. Iron man football. We're talking 2nd graders here and seriously, hats off to those players and coaches. In the 3rd quarter, they finally had a kid or two come out for "boo boos".  We did the nice thing and pulled a player or two so it would be 10 v 10 or even 9 v 9. We were blowing them out. If it were a close game? Too bad, so sad.

In week 6, I was scouting our week 7 opponent. At that point, we were 2-4 and getting out scored 165-84. We had recently gotten blown out 32-0 by a common opponent. Common opponent beat week 7 opponent 20-19. Week 7 opponent was 4-2 going into the game I was scouting and out scoring their opponents 156-92. They ended up winning the game I was scouting 14-6. Our OC was there with me and so was a coach from another team that we made nice with, so we were chatting away as the game went on. I made several flattering comments about #85, aka "The Dude", a kid from the week 7 opponent that was absolutely running the show. His dad was right next to us and heard it all. He puffed up his chest and told us that 85 is not his regular number, but he had forgotten his jersey and had to borrow one from an older kid in the same org. He would be #11 when we played each other in a week. He finished with something like, "We don't want to take advantage or anything."

If "game recognize game", then certainly "smug recognize smug." It was definitely something you share only if you think your opponent doesn't have a prayer. We ended up beating them 38-13 in probably the biggest upset of the entire season. I'm guessing if "Dude Sr." had any idea how good we really were, he wouldn't have said anything about his son's jersey number.
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Offline TigerMOJO

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2018, 11:28:26 AM »
DP I understand the meaning cant go film another HS but they still trade it. To me your nick picking in my comments which I've seen thats just how you do. But the fact is not about How they get the film but that they do trade film....again....because its a part if the game.

To me everything else is irrelevant...nick picking this and that doesn't explain anything...I know all youth coaches dont film their own games and when I find that out...I suggest to them to start and why because I just try to help out anybody I can.

 The FACT remains tho Film is a part of the game and IMO maybe not required in youth but as a competitor I want us both to have film. I usually can tell the teams thar dont film or dont have film cuz we win pretty big. But if a coach ask I'm going to trade rather I have already have film of them or not. Just me...
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Thoughts about this process of getting film.
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2018, 11:45:41 AM »
To me your nick picking in my comments which I've seen thats just how you do. But the fact is not about How they get the film but that they do trade film....again....because its a part if the game.

Nick picking?  lol  Just responding to your claims.  In high school, it's a mandatory exchange.  In youth, it isn't (in most places).  You asked for feedback and if you feel that coaches who don't work as hard or find video as important should still be able to get something they didn't work or pay for, then so be it.  There's lots of coaches out there who moan about what they don't have, and complain about what others do have.  So you have plenty of company.  I'm just not one of them.  :)

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