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Author Topic: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast  (Read 2987 times)

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Offline gumby_in_co

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"Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« on: June 09, 2017, 10:44:31 AM »
I'm looking for some input and feedback here.

Had what I think was a really successful Spring coaching the O-line. Last Fall, Mahonz was experimenting with a pin and pull system that I think confused everyone by Mike. So I went into the Spring looking to really simplify things. Our linemen can climb like nobody's business and can really dominate the 2nd level, so I wanted to take advantage of that. I decided that our base blocking on runs would be "Gap On Backer". We called it "Goober".

The OC and I had an epiphany in Game 1 running Beast. We ran it with the strong side toward our sideline so we could see the point of attack. I started calling out players and numbers to my TE and Power tackle. This worked really well as the defensive players started moving around to try and adjust to Beast. 2-3 yard gains became 5-7 yard gains. Once I got comfortable and did the same for the backs, they turned into 12-15 yard gains.

I have seen 2 defenses do really well vs Beast. Both had studs on our strong side and heavily featured twist stunts. I think Mike calls it "long sticking" when a guy stunts 2 gaps over. In our Bowl Game this Spring, the 9 tech stunted to the B gap and was to strong and fast to block.

Anyway . . . My mission for the Fall is to "Stunt Proof" the mega-wide splits Beast.

First, I'm going to further simplify the blocking rules. Step one is to decide if you are "covered" or not. In our offense, "covered" means there's a face mask between your outside shoulder and your inside buddy's outside shoulder.

Run: Covered guy, then 2nd level. Block your guy away from the ball. If there are two guys covering you . . . DOMINO
Pass: Covered guy, then fan out. Block your guy away from the ball (QB). If there are two guys covering you . . . Step down and protect your inside gap and/or inside buddy.

We also have a slide scheme for outside runs, but I'm not worried about that because we rarely run outside. The defense has to be begging for it for that to happen.

I'm leaning toward DOMINO to defeat the stunts and simply refining and really working the rules and techniques. In our Bowl game, the opponent came out in essentially a Gap 8, so that was an easy DOMINO call. Unfortunately, we hadn't had a reason to DOMINO for 3 weeks, so we were rusty. Our linemen would get fixated on blocking the next guy down, which allowed #9 to cross a couple of faces and get into the backfield.

So I really want to stress fast feet and running your feet on DOMINO. Fight to your inside buddy and No one crosses your face to the inside. Ignore anyone who crosses your face to the outside.

Thoughts?



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Offline angalton

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2017, 09:04:25 PM »
I maybe way off, but would track block to the outside with TE,PT, and T, then inside with everybody else and running through the B gap. Hope I made any sense at all.
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Offline angalton

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2017, 09:11:47 PM »
Rule block from playside guard to backside tight end. Your backs lead through the hole first free man.
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Offline angalton

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2017, 09:16:53 PM »
Call it Moses for blocking tag.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2017, 10:00:44 PM »
Lar

Since I have all the clips I will find some film to post up here for you from our playoff game last Fall.

I started in just now. First time I have watched it. Defense crushed it....surprisingly.

Thing is I cant watch Godzilla play OL so soon after Spring ball. He should be fired from the O for good.  The few O clips I just ran thru he nearly got our QB killed... twice. He is now completely worthless in my book. I had to stop watching.

#30 and #31 ran twists every play confusing Chris, Moll and McP at middle sniffer. Remember we were without Brian that day and all Chuck did was scream at everyone from his fucking chair.

Another reason I had to stop watching since he sat under the camera all game.

Not good.

I should have stepped in. You should have stepped in.

I think the O got Perfect Stormed that day. It was very fixable......COMPRESS THE SPLITS !!!!

Fixed.

Oh well. Now we know.  That is all you need to do but comments from the masses here would be awesome.  I would suggest a Mini and a Maxi Call ala the DCWT. Sometimes you can go wider which is always good....but sometimes you need to go skinnier which can be really good too. We put too much stress on those 3 players that had to deal with #30 coming from every which a way.

After an attitude adjustment...I will try again and post some film.  >:(
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2017, 03:25:04 AM »
I maybe way off, but would track block to the outside with TE,PT, and T, then inside with everybody else and running through the B gap. Hope I made any sense at all.

Not way off at all. Great food for thought. I had a "fan out" call. It was actually called "Jesus" (pronounced "HaySoos"). Our left tackle was the first one to practice that day and I let him name the tag. Named it after his cousin, Jesus. I just never went to in in the Bowl game because I was looking for something specific that I never saw. I essentially yell out a player's name, followed by "Jesus" and that tells him and all of his outside buddies to block out. The two inside sniffer backs were instructed to run inside of the "Jesus" call. Nothing more than a "part" scheme from my DW days. If this isn't THE answer, it could be one of a few adjustments that will get the job done.

After Beast had less than stellar results in our bowl game, I went to the OC and told him to start calling the landmarks a little tighter (A and B gaps) because they were selling out on the edges. He decided to go "regular" for a series and I think we scored on 3 of the next 5 offensive plays. The sad thing is I'm not sure we have film of the Bowl game. I really want to study that.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2017, 03:27:28 AM »
Rule block from playside guard to backside tight end. Your backs lead through the hole first free man.

I like it. One of the downsides of DOMINO is that we lose our climbers, which is really what sets our o-line apart.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2017, 03:28:38 AM »
Call it Moses for blocking tag.

I get it.  :D

When I was coaching with Kent Calkins, our Part tag was "PART THE SEAS!"
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2017, 03:42:40 AM »
Thing is I cant watch Godzilla play OL so soon after Spring ball. He should be fired from the O for good.  The few O clips I just ran thru he nearly got our QB killed... twice. He is now completely worthless in my book. I had to stop watching.

It was good to see that he was just as useless in the Super Smurf clips. At least he's consistent. I think I'm just going to have to pull that trigger and stick to my guns.

Quote
#30 and #31 ran twists every play confusing Chris, Moll and McP at middle sniffer. Remember we were without Brian that day and all Chuck did was scream at everyone from his fucking chair.
LOL! I do remember. You know me, staying in my lane and all. There's a lot I want to improve on this Fall. Bullet-proof schemes for one. Going back to fundamentals is another. Spring was great, but I can't shake the feeling that we were facing 1) unsound fronts and 2) fewer studs. To win it all this Fall, we can't rely on simply having better Jimmy's and Joes. I want to solidify what we're doing. That means more indies and making better use of indy time. It also means on "offense" days, reigning in you and Lonnie and the "parade of stunts and fronts". I'll tell your d-line what I need to see and we'll work it until we can block it with confidence. On "defense" days . . . go for it.

Quote
It was very fixable......COMPRESS THE SPLITS !!!!

Fixed.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I don't want to compress them. Absolute last resort. Space and time are friends of the offense and enemies of the defense. In the Bowl game, we had a guy on #9, sometimes two. Lack of fundamentals allowed him to do his thing. Forgetting the fundamentals of BANDIT (DOMINO) and forgetting the fundamentals of running your feet and taking him where he wants to go.

Quote
Oh well. Now we know.  That is all you need to do but comments from the masses here would be awesome.  I would suggest a Mini and a Maxi Call ala the DCWT. Sometimes you can go wider which is always good....but sometimes you need to go skinnier which can be really good too. We put too much stress on those 3 players that had to deal with #30 coming from every which a way.
Sigh. You're probably right. At least that's another tool in the toolbox.
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Offline DumCoach

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2017, 05:20:10 AM »
I'm looking for some input and feedback here.

Had what I think was a really successful Spring coaching the O-line. Last Fall, Mahonz was experimenting with a pin and pull system that I think confused everyone by Mike. So I went into the Spring looking to really simplify things. Our linemen can climb like nobody's business and can really dominate the 2nd level, so I wanted to take advantage of that. I decided that our base blocking on runs would be "Gap On Backer". We called it "Goober".

Can you send me your playbook using Goober?  I have the same blocking rule but had no idea I could run beast out of it.


Quote
The OC and I had an epiphany in Game 1 running Beast. We ran it with the strong side toward our sideline so we could see the point of attack. I started calling out players and numbers to my TE and Power tackle. This worked really well as the defensive players started moving around to try and adjust to Beast. 2-3 yard gains became 5-7 yard gains. Once I got comfortable and did the same for the backs, they turned into 12-15 yard gains.

:o



Quote
I have seen 2 defenses do really well vs Beast. Both had studs on our strong side and heavily featured twist stunts. I think Mike calls it "long sticking" when a guy stunts 2 gaps over. In our Bowl Game this Spring, the 9 tech stunted to the B gap and was to strong and fast to block.

I believe you run Killer Bee which can stunt a DE to "A" or backside DT to "B" or playside DT to "B".  Pretty hard to pick up.  Hence the popularity of the Killer Bee.

Your opponents may have learned this from your own defense.

Quote
Anyway . . . My mission for the Fall is to "Stunt Proof" the mega-wide splits Beast.

First, I'm going to further simplify the blocking rules. Step one is to decide if you are "covered" or not. In our offense, "covered" means there's a face mask between your outside shoulder and your inside buddy's outside shoulder.

Run: Covered guy, then 2nd level. Block your guy away from the ball. If there are two guys covering you . . . DOMINO
Pass: Covered guy, then fan out. Block your guy away from the ball (QB). If there are two guys covering you . . . Step down and protect your inside gap and/or inside buddy.

We also have a slide scheme for outside runs, but I'm not worried about that because we rarely run outside. The defense has to be begging for it for that to happen.

I'm leaning toward DOMINO to defeat the stunts and simply refining and really working the rules and techniques. In our Bowl game, the opponent came out in essentially a Gap 8, so that was an easy DOMINO call. Unfortunately, we hadn't had a reason to DOMINO for 3 weeks, so we were rusty. Our linemen would get fixated on blocking the next guy down, which allowed #9 to cross a couple of faces and get into the backfield.

So I really want to stress fast feet and running your feet on DOMINO. Fight to your inside buddy and No one crosses your face to the inside. Ignore anyone who crosses your face to the outside.

Thoughts?

It can be done but it will be an eye opener if you do.  I believe the Dallas Cowboys met the then Baltimore Colts in a Super Bowl game and Jethro Pugh was playing DT to right of center and he looped around Bob Lilly into opposite "B" on a pass play and Pugh was at the height of his career and he got picked up by a Colt lineman.  I don't know the Colt's blocking rule but it became the single most famous play of that game.  The block was not luck.  It was planned.  But that it actually worked was a stunner.  The cameras and microphones were in that lineman's face asking him after the game how he could possibly make that block? He had his 15 minutes of fame. 

He proved it could be done but the cameras and microphones proved it was thought it could not be done.  Based on that one historical play the answer is "Yes.  You can do it but, no, you shouldn't be able to."

The first factor of consideration is where are your linemen's eyes?  Because OL's come to the LOS and LOOK for WHO they HAVE.  And then their eyes LOCK ON to the target within their blocking rule ESPECIALLY IF THE TARGET IS LOOKING BACK. 

Two bulls are about to meet.  They tell you that, if you ever meet a gorilla in the jungle, don't look him in the eye.  EYE CONTACT IS A CHALLENGE and most CHALLENGES are often ACCEPTED.  As soon as your OL accepts a challenge, the defense can stunt by them.  It happens because, when a Killer Bee type defender stunts from two gaps over, he's outside the blocker's blocking rule.   

If you want to pick up Jethro Pugh you have to get rid of the bulls and gorilla's response.  Get rid of presnap eye contact.  I always told my OL to NEVER look a DL in the eye.  Look at his feet.  Whereas I ALWAYS tell my DL's to FIRST find the OL that comes to the line LOOKING AT YOU.  That's the guy who is going to block you.  His eyes may go straight ahead when he sets but that's the guy that's going to block you.  Now look the nearest OL in the eye and try and get him to look back.  Can you do it?  Because, if you can, YOU JUST WON.  Because the OL that came out of the huddle that looked at you is the one who really has you BUT if you can issue a CHALLENGE that's ACCEPTED by another OL, you're going to draw two blockers when you're supposed to only be blocked by one (unless its a called (GOD) double team and even then you won because you at least know you're going to be double teamed.  That gives you two choices.  If you're FAST go around the outside blocker.  If not, get low and SPLIT the double team.). 

Youth football is psychological.  If you try and teach a player to do something he does not want to do, GOOD LUCK.  It will be game three before he does it.  This is like trying to teach a DE to "box".  They don't want to learn it.  It's why I went to "Spill and Kill".  They all want to learn that.  OL's are the same way.  They want to LOCK EYES and CHARGE!  This is how JJ Lawson's 3-3 Stack works.  If you lock eyes with one of JJ's DL's you are SCREWED because your OL is going to go the same way as his DL - PERIOD! There will be no other result.  Meanwhile, the stack defender behind him is playing "Taps" and stunting to where your OL WAS but no longer IS.  You counter JJ's defense with EYES DOWN.  It's why I coach "Eyes Down" from day one.  You can't coach picking up "taps" in one week unless that's all you do for that entire week.  It's a SEASON project.  It's why you said your players were "rusty" at DOMINOS.  If it's not built in DAILY to your practice plan it will be FORGOTTEN. 

On the plus side with Killer Bee you should be able to practice your OL's all season long at picking up those "A" and "B" gap stunts from two gaps over.  Your DL's should know the calls.  RUN THEM. Practice makes perfect.  Because if I ever saw an offensive lineman pick up a Killer Bee stunt my mouth would be hanging open which is exactly why that Colt offensive line got his 15 minutes of fame for blocking Jethro Pugh.

 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 05:27:24 AM by DumCoach »
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Offline angalton

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2017, 10:15:58 AM »
We have a max call, tight call and a flex call on our line. Flex is a combination of max and tight. If OL is covered, use max rule. If OL is uncovered, use tight rule.

I remember you talking about wedge with the wide splits. Did you try to work a mesh with your backs in between your playside lineman in your beast formation. (G-T-PT-TE)
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Offline mahonz

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2017, 02:48:07 PM »

LOL! I do remember. You know me, staying in my lane and all. There's a lot I want to improve on this Fall. Bullet-proof schemes for one. Going back to fundamentals is another. Spring was great, but I can't shake the feeling that we were facing 1) unsound fronts and 2) fewer studs. To win it all this Fall, we can't rely on simply having better Jimmy's and Joes. I want to solidify what we're doing. That means more indies and making better use of indy time. It also means on "offense" days, reigning in you and Lonnie and the "parade of stunts and fronts". I'll tell your d-line what I need to see and we'll work it until we can block it with confidence. On "defense" days . . . go for it.


That's where we differ. In the Fall.... we will never see a passing game like the Bulldogs or Falcons, an OL as big and athletic as the Crusaders or the team speed that the Colts have.I think the Spring has far more talent over the Fall when it comes to the players.   The difference?....coaching.  Coaching Spring is like coaching 3rd graders in the Fall. We coach circles around the opponents simply because of the level of experience. Spring Ball is a bunch of Fall AC's that decide they want to put a team together for grins only to learn what it means to get ejected.

As far as OL Indy's....they are good for teaching how to block....way overrated when it come to teaching who to block. You dont block cones and bags....you block live bodies that move ! If you need more than 20 minutes per day of Indy's then just say so and you will get it. Remember....90 minute practice sessions again.
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Offline Michael

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2017, 04:46:06 PM »
Why can't the long-stick's blocker long stick with him?
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Offline mahonz

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2017, 05:14:15 PM »
Why can't the long-stick's blocker long stick with him?

Because a defender is posting him up....just like a pick and roll in bb.

It isnt one defender long-sticking....its a group thing.
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: "Stunt Proofing" the Beast
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2017, 06:23:11 PM »
Remember we were without Brian that day and all Chuck did was scream at everyone from his fucking chair.
You have chairs for that now?  Must be a rich team.

But seriously, Gumby, or anyone, can you audible to a quick hitter snapped to your insidemost blocking back?  Everybody who's not within 3 feet of that back, climb!  That alone will burn a lot of those stunts if they have enough of a tell.  Even if they have no such tell, so no reason to check off to it, calling it once in a while or by situation tendency (the defense's, not yours) seems like a low-risk way to possibly hit some jackpots vs. a high risk defense.