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Author Topic: Beast thread  (Read 945 times)

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Offline mahonz

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2017, 02:59:02 PM »
I would like to hear what he has to say on that.


Using Michaels count system  vs a split 44

                              1                 4

                                       2               3
                      C               G               T

If the 4 walks up and now becomes the 3....the T "traps' to the walk up leaving his DLM. Therefore you would need a TE or a Back to pick up that DLM.

OR.....run to the A Gap but walk ups usually happen rather late.

Our conclusion....use a TE and or have a Back that is part of the blocking scheme that attacks to the POA.

My theory why Beast works so well with 4-6 foot splits is you have a TE AND 3 Backs at the POA so everything gets covered more times than not.
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2017, 03:51:27 PM »
This whole time I was picturing like 2-3 yards. 2' would he considered standard for us. When we're running sweeps & rockets we compress down to about a foot.

That isn't a tell for the defense?
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

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Offline COACH JC

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2017, 04:23:27 PM »
That isn't a tell for the defense?

Not that I've experienced. We run wedge from tight splits as well, so it'd be tough to be looking for wedge & rocket at the same time.

Our splits are constantly moving & very accross the O-line. You could have zero splits backside & 3' splits backside. So you'd have to process all of our splits across the whole O-line, then communicate to the D, all before we snap the ball (we usally go on 1st sound, unless there's motion).

Long story short, I think a good coach who was up in a booth, could definitely spot it. I don't think a 13 year old
MLB could identify all of our splits & communicate in time. And even if he could, telling your teammates that wedge rocket, fly sweep, or flood is coming, probably wouldn't help much.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2017, 04:30:04 PM »
Mike, no offense but...I just don't think those splits would have worked against a (youth) defense like ours.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the success of the scheme above is dependent on a defense "widening out" because of your splits.  Our defense won't do that.  We won't play your game.  We're going to play ours.  And if you want to stay wide, I don't possibly see how you can stop two (or even three, if we're blitzing) from coming through the same gap and disrupting what you're trying to do here.

--Dave

Please keep this to yourself. I'll ask Clark to delete this post.  :D

Seriously, I've been saying this for 5 seasons now. As soon as a DC refuses to play our game, we're sunk. Or at least we'll have to go back to "woman splits". Actually, what Mahonz diagrammed, I'll call "woman splits". When we really get rolling and the o-line is feeling confident, we'll be at 2 yards minimum.

However . . . we deal with penetration all the time. If the opponent is exceptionally good and we are exceptionally bad at following our rules, guys get through. We'll take a TFL here and there, but will follow it up with a huge run because the D's best guys are 7 yards deep in our backfield and chasing ghosts. The teams who have slowed us down had 5 or more guys who could really pursue and tackle. Most teams don't.
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Offline davecisar

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2017, 04:30:33 PM »
We call everything from the sidelines
We have 2 different guys looking at different things
Alignments splits
Sometimes a third on personnel packages

But yeah if you run several things out of it you are ok
Just one or 2 not so much
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.

Winston Churchill

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2017, 04:35:19 PM »
Well, I guess that's the biggest issue.  If you can block my 'Backers with your linemen, then it's over for me, regardless.  But in youth ball, it's the rarest of teams whose linemen are better than an opponent's linebackers.  Even when we played poor teams, their LBs were better than my O-Line.

That's really the secret. We don't have to be better. With the stupid splits, we just need to get in the way. Like Mahonz said, the teams that really got us would play our game. Like our RB's, the LBs would sit and be patient until the creases developed, then attacked the creases with speed and aggression. Our linemen and blocking backs would be engaged or looking for adventure by then. We found a way to counter it (slow play), but we haven't been good about consistently executing it.
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2017, 04:38:33 PM »
Wait, the "Wide splits" stuff that Mike is always talking about it 2 feet??? To me that's just a standard split. We have plays where we're up to 4 yards split. The pic below is showing a T, TE, Wing edge. TE is split about 3.5 yards.

Mahonz' numbers are off. From C to TE, we are more like 3, 3, 5, 5 at a minimum. Any less than that and I am screaming "SPLITS!!!" across the field.
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Offline COACH JC

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2017, 04:54:46 PM »
We call everything from the sidelines
We have 2 different guys looking at different things
Alignments splits
Sometimes a third on personnel packages

But yeah if you run several things out of it you are ok
Just one or 2 not so much

I just can't see splits particularly well from the sideline. I've tried to use splits as a key before, just never really worked for me on grass. If I was in a booth & allowed to have communication devices, then i'd def use them. Because on tape from an elevated plane, I can pick it up not problem. Angles can be very misleading.

Below is 1 angle of our split. I'll post a different angle next & you see how it can be quite decieving if you're not elevated high enough.
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Offline COACH JC

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2017, 04:55:49 PM »
Here's the other angle. Same exact play.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2017, 05:05:01 PM »
Mahonz' numbers are off. From C to TE, we are more like 3, 3, 5, 5 at a minimum. Any less than that and I am screaming "SPLITS!!!" across the field.

I didnt want to blow anyone's mind.....yet.

Keeping in line with Clarks progressive splits was the thinking and used as the median. I think Clark goes 18" 24" 36" which is pretty standard for youths. so I went 24" 36" 48" as a median.

Smaller for the little dudes...bigger for the older kids.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2017, 06:17:17 PM »
Those gaps are not that different than many offenses. Veer, wing t, spread.... 2' isn't much at all.

Agreed.  But this is Beast we’re talking about here.  Even the NFL tightens up when they run the occasional wedge.

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Offline mahonz

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2017, 07:46:30 PM »
Agreed.  But this is Beast we’re talking about here.  Even the NFL tightens up when they run the occasional wedge.

—Dave

Wedge!? As a die hard Broncos fan I would have preferred wedge.  >:(

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Offline COACH JC

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2017, 07:54:15 PM »
Wedge!? As a die hard Broncos fan I would have preferred wedge.  >:(

https://youtu.be/-DH86QWMS8Y

Poe would probably be the best QB on the Broncos.
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Offline COACH JC

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2017, 07:58:20 PM »
Mahonz' numbers are off. From C to TE, we are more like 3, 3, 5, 5 at a minimum. Any less than that and I am screaming "SPLITS!!!" across the field.

I assume the split from 3 to 5' is to create a bubble off tackle?
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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Beast thread
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2017, 08:49:50 PM »
I assume the split from 3 to 5' is to create a bubble off tackle?
No. The players determine the splits.

The splits are to spread the defensive line and to force them to play special teams. I encourage insist on giant splits. I tell them to split out as far as they feel comfortable, then split out a little more. They can move in if they get beat badly . . . twice. It so happens that my guards are fraidy cats and my tackles are fearless. They line up pretty much where they want to. It has been a work in progress for many seasons. I even installed a "Stupid" call that tells them to go ridiculous on the splits. It was for our trap, but we bailed on that. Then one game, we were in Beast and saw something I didn't like, so I yelled, "ALL STUPID!". We ran the play and crushed it. Not an every down kind of thing, though.
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