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Author Topic: Bubble Screen and the OL  (Read 3158 times)

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Offline parone

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Bubble Screen and the OL
« on: May 19, 2017, 12:06:54 PM »
ok-

last year we tried to throw in a bubble screen, it looked like this-

w         tgcgt            w  w
   
              q r                w


QB took the snap, faked to the rb, gunned it into the right flat to the wr off the line, two other WRs blocked.

we put it in late, and only ran it a few times, not too successful.

most folks run it a different way, with two of the receivers running clear out routes, one WR doubling back in a 'bubble' route, while the playsied OL scoot out as the screen blockers.

if we run it this way, what's the rule for the OL?

if it's a forward pass, must they be  behind the LOS when it's caught?  how soon can they go downfield?
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Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 12:11:10 PM »
I assume that you are under NFHS rules.  We are under NCAA rules, so screens are much better because guys can block downfield so long as the pass is behind the LOS.  As such, not much that I can help with for details. 

Under other rules, I have seen folks keeping the line back at the LOS with a puller going along the LOS to help clear people out. 

I also like to have a wing coming in motion to play side and we can adjust whether that motion man gets the screen or ends up blocking. 

Offline parone

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2017, 12:53:49 PM »
ill try to talk to the refs about it preseason- hadn't realized the rules weren't uniform.

i love bringing the opposite man in motion though.  you could do a lot of different stuff with that.  thanks.
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Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 01:52:07 PM »
ill try to talk to the refs about it preseason- hadn't realized the rules weren't uniform.

i love bringing the opposite man in motion though.  you could do a lot of different stuff with that.  thanks.

Based on your diagram, you would have that left wing off of the line, send him in motion to the right.  Then you can have him either move forward on snap or he can peel backwards to be the recipient of the pass. 

I have always liked to have my wings yelling "go" once they have received the pass so that the blockers know that they can block and you are rule independent.  However, in 95% of our games that is unnecessary and our blockers can be blocking downfield even before the pass is caught so long as it is behind the LOS. 

Offline MHcoach

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2017, 01:54:35 PM »
P

First, I think you letting terminology get the way of what you are describing & what you are trying to do.

Bubble is a Fast Screen to an inside receiver trying to get width. What are describing sounds more like a Smoke screen off a play fake.

Smoke is a Fast Screen to a wide receiver who stays in his general area. We run it with 2 steps forward 2 steps back.

Either way forward or not as long as the ball is behind the LOS the linemen can get down field. This is how RPO's generally work.

In my Modern offense for Youth PP, I detail the Fast Screens a little more in depth.

Joe
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2017, 12:47:36 AM »
I assume that you are under NFHS rules.  We are under NCAA rules, so screens are much better because guys can block downfield so long as the pass is behind the LOS.  As such, not much that I can help with for details.
Yes, you can, because both NFHS & NCAA play by that rule.  Only the pros don't.

Offline parone

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2017, 07:02:23 AM »
what's the pro rule?  just out of curiosity?
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Offline Coach Smith

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2017, 09:18:55 AM »
P

First, I think you letting terminology get the way of what you are describing & what you are trying to do.

Bubble is a Fast Screen to an inside receiver trying to get width. What are describing sounds more like a Smoke screen off a play fake.

Smoke is a Fast Screen to a wide receiver who stays in his general area. We run it with 2 steps forward 2 steps back.

Either way forward or not as long as the ball is behind the LOS the linemen can get down field. This is how RPO's generally work.

In my Modern offense for Youth PP, I detail the Fast Screens a little more in depth.

Joe


Joe, we just had that conversation the other day. Thanks again
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Offline parone

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2017, 12:25:22 PM »
MH coach, can you explain two steps forward, two steps back?

is that what you do with the WR receiving the screen?
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Offline archer

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2017, 12:48:26 PM »
I believe he means your receiver takes first steps as if he is going out for a pass, plant the second step and comes back two steps, looking for the ball right now. The QB will have the ball in the air. The two step drive is to get the defender to give ground and hopefully turn his hips, giving separation and making him an easier block.

If I messed that up, MH coach can clean it up.


Offline MHcoach

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2017, 02:00:29 PM »
Archer has it simply for the most part. We are always concerned with "Stems" for each route. So on Smoke we take an outside Stem as if releasing on a fade, then it's almost 2 hop steps back. It all happens very fast. Our QB is catch cock throw.

Joe
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Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2017, 06:16:12 PM »
what's the pro rule?  just out of curiosity?
They can't block downfield, nor have ineligible receivers release downfield, until the pass is thrown, no matter where the pass ends.  So it's the same as any other forward pass.  In the first year of the WLAF, they used essentially the rule that'd already been NCAA's, as a test for the NFL, but the NFL wound up sticking with the old rule.

Offline somecoach

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2017, 01:34:45 PM »
Why wasn't it successful?

Bubble is not a "bread and butter" play like power/bucksweep where you can pretty much bang it into any front.
You can only run it if you have the right look

i.e. if they are playing soft zone on the receivers:
   
    $                       C
                           
                 B     
                                 1
          3         2

If the defense is in something like this^
2 would down block B
1 would down block C
3 would run the bubble
$ will be ~15-20 yards away from the bubble


if you get a cover 1 look:

    $         B           C
                            1
   3            2

The bubble is dead.
The Same for Cover 2 (depending on the situation and blocking matchup

This is what created the RPO's and Packaged plays

At the highschool levels and above, teams will call bubble, have the offensive line block a run play, and have the solo receiver run a slant or go. And the Qb will put the ball where the defense isn't.

Offline parone

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2017, 01:43:39 PM »
it was largely unsuccessful for the reason you stated-we faced almost all man coverage teams.  so you'd have two guys blocking 3, and the receiver turning his head to make a catch.  we got some modest gains, but we also got our guy lit up(and that was the last time we called it).

thus my interest in other ways to run it. 

this was 11 YOs, so while i believe you could teach them RPO, this was a change of pace offense(we are dedicated SWers) so we just didn't have the number of reps to do it.  our QB in this formation was also a poor decision maker, so it would have been asking a lot of him.
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Offline somecoach

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Re: Bubble Screen and the OL
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2017, 09:26:05 PM »
If you are dedicated Single Winger, don't be afraid to run your single wing stuff out of the spread!

If I was going to do it out of a single wing base:
-my first play would be Qb Power with a Bubble and a Slant/Fade to the Solo receiver.

It doesn't have to be an RPO, you can signal the call in (as I do in highschool)
Only the Q gets the signal, one for bubble, one for keeper, one for the throw to the solo receiver.

The throws should be so quick that the lineman don't have enough time to get called for being upfield illegally
If you want to get a little crazy with it, you can go no huddle and just keep running the same play and calling the right option until they stop it/the Q gets tired from too many runs

-The other thing I would carry is Qb Sprint out (as you probably do out of the single wing)
To keep it simple you could sprint out to the trips and run a flood concept to beat the man coverage.

-You could be fine with those 2 since it's just a change of pace.
From there you could add quick game or other single wing runs