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Author Topic: How to teach blocking to the whistle?  (Read 11956 times)

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Offline jrk5150

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2016, 09:51:08 AM »
How so?

1. The "pinnacle" of the game has no bearing on youth football. As we repeatedly point out on here, youth football is a very different animal than HS, College, NFL.  It's almost a different game in many ways. So pointing out what happens in college/NFL as support for a youth football argument is ludicrous, and you've pointed that out yourself on a number of occasions.

2. He's actually wrong about the "pinnacle" argument anyway. The talent in the NFL is remarkably even across the league.  The biggest difference between teams is typically coaching. Not only that, but even using his example he's wrong - Phil Jackson won with that talent AFTER other established coaches couldn't win with that talent.

4. There are MANY examples of "turnaround" coaches at every level of the game in multiple sports who come into a situation and win when other coaches lost, with the same level of talent and same competition. There's also a reason for the saying/cliche that a coach can take his and beat yours and then take yours and beat his.  Oh, and by the way, I've lived that on grass as well.

3.  His argument about youth football coaching saying it's the jimmys and joes is just flat out wrong. Talk to PSL - he's explained numerous times that their national championship teams were almost always at a talent disadvantage compared to orgs around them, and that's been corroborated by other coaches familiar with his team and the competition. They were a first come first serve organization, and his teams won when others in the org didn't. Talk to Dave Potter - he's TWICE walked into situations where he was taking over teams that had lost for years, immediately won big, and upon leaving they immediately went back to losing. Dave Cisar has a worst to first section on his site showing a number of situations where the talent didn't change, the competition didn't change, the coaches didn't change, but the scheme/process changed and they won. He did it in Reno - documented.  These are REAL LIFE examples.  Proof of concept, not some idiotic notion coming out of someone's head. Oh - and Cisar either does or has sold full season full game videos. Not highlights, full games.  Easy to see what the relative talent level is. There are some pretty virulent Cisar bashers on here, and one argument about him that I haven't really ever heard is that he always has more talent. In fact, he's made no bones about his habit of taking his org's LESS talented teams, and nobody has argued that point.

4. He's also exaggerating the counter argument and making an argument against a point nobody is actually making.  I don't believe anyone here is arguing that it's all coaching, talent doesn't matter. OBVIOUSLY it's a sliding scale, and not a single person argues that. There is a point of talent mismatch that no coach can overcome. Agreed. But it is nowhere near with this guy thinks it is.

So four is multiple levels of WRONG.  Provably wrong.




Offline Michael

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2016, 09:54:18 AM »
I have read that Phil Jackson was the master of manipulation over being a great Coach.

It's disturbing that you don't see the massive overlap between those two things.  Well, it would be, if this sort of thing wasn't priced in by now.
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Offline Monster

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2016, 10:16:17 AM »
So...

We're good on the "Block somebody!" being yelled after the fact as the best approach? That way, I don't have to learn anything or try.
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Offline CoachDP

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2016, 10:21:06 AM »
We're good on the "Block somebody!" being yelled after the fact as the best approach?

That's 99% of the coaching I see.  Little instruction before the snap and frustrated yelling after the snap.

Coaches should instruct as if they aren't allowed to speak after a drill/play.

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« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 10:30:25 AM by CoachDP »
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Offline Monster

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2016, 10:44:07 AM »
That's 99% of the coaching I see.  Little instruction before the snap and frustrated yelling after the snap.

Coaches should instruct as if they aren't allowed to speak after a drill/play.

--Dave

That one's going on my "board".
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Offline Ronin

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2016, 11:39:13 AM »
Coaches should instruct as if they aren't allowed to speak after a drill/play.

Funny... my wife, being the armchair QB that she is... asks me "Why aren't you telling the players what to do during the plays, like the other coaches?" 

Short answer:  Because it confuses them when they are being yelled at while trying to make decisions.

Better answer:  Coaching is done during practice.  If I haven't done my job during practice, I certainly am not capable during game time...

I remember our first season of tackle.  We had like 40 practices before our first game.  First team we played had two practices.  Their coaches were running around between plays, trying to teach.  And then yelling all drill sergeant like at the kids for not understanding.  That is no way to learn.

Offline coachmyles

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2016, 11:49:13 AM »
You must be thinking (and I use the term loosely) of someone else.

No, I have the right person. When you have nothing to say, your veiled insults start flying. You might want to remain respectful of another person's opinion and not come off as an asshole.
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Offline SingleWingGoombah

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2016, 11:54:03 AM »
No, I have the right person. When you have nothing to say, your veiled insults start flying. You might want to remain respectful of another person's opinion and not come off as an asshole.

NOthing about Michael is veiled.

Offline Michael

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2016, 12:06:13 PM »
NOthing about Michael is veiled.

I guess I have to work on being less subtle.
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Offline ZACH

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #54 on: September 15, 2016, 12:07:41 PM »
No, I have the right person. When you have nothing to say, your veiled insults start flying. You might want to remain respectful of another person's opinion and not come off as an asshole.

He is respectful 9 times out of 10

Most take offense when they realise theyre wrong and hes right lol

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Offline CoachOCD

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2016, 12:17:29 PM »
were on a coaching site, so yah coaching matters, I just think football has many coaches with HUGE inflated egos......that being said

if coaching is the most important ingredient to a successful team formula, then the below must be true, somewhere once, that 1 in a million. Really it should be true over n over again but Im challenging anybody to find me a team of Rudys BUT they had the best coaches, so they won the championship vs teams stacked with size speed athleticism and talent.

Narrow this down to just HS football, and even this is a huge sample, somewhere, in all of footballs history, there has to be a high school team of all 5'5" 150 lb kids, all nonathletic boys with no speed, no talent BUUUUUUTTTT they had the countries BEST oline coach, BEST rb coach, BEST receivers coach just a all star coaching dream team of the best of the best. Find me this team beating and winning against a stacked stud filled team with just mediocre coaches.

the above has to be true at least once, right? I mean if what a lot of coaches say "size dont matter" "speed dont matter" "talent athletiscism are dwarfed by good coaching" if good coaching is the end all most important aspect, then out of the several million HS football games that have been played, the above HAS to be true at least once!!!

Offline mahonz

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2016, 12:21:51 PM »
It's disturbing that you don't see the massive overlap between those two things.  Well, it would be, if this sort of thing wasn't priced in by now.

That was by his own admission so I will take his word for it. Maybe he was just being humble.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2016, 12:24:51 PM »
1. The "pinnacle" of the game has no bearing on youth football. As we repeatedly point out on here, youth football is a very different animal than HS, College, NFL.  It's almost a different game in many ways. So pointing out what happens in college/NFL as support for a youth football argument is ludicrous, and you've pointed that out yourself on a number of occasions.

2. He's actually wrong about the "pinnacle" argument anyway. The talent in the NFL is remarkably even across the league.  The biggest difference between teams is typically coaching. Not only that, but even using his example he's wrong - Phil Jackson won with that talent AFTER other established coaches couldn't win with that talent.

4. There are MANY examples of "turnaround" coaches at every level of the game in multiple sports who come into a situation and win when other coaches lost, with the same level of talent and same competition. There's also a reason for the saying/cliche that a coach can take his and beat yours and then take yours and beat his.  Oh, and by the way, I've lived that on grass as well.

3.  His argument about youth football coaching saying it's the jimmys and joes is just flat out wrong. Talk to PSL - he's explained numerous times that their national championship teams were almost always at a talent disadvantage compared to orgs around them, and that's been corroborated by other coaches familiar with his team and the competition. They were a first come first serve organization, and his teams won when others in the org didn't. Talk to Dave Potter - he's TWICE walked into situations where he was taking over teams that had lost for years, immediately won big, and upon leaving they immediately went back to losing. Dave Cisar has a worst to first section on his site showing a number of situations where the talent didn't change, the competition didn't change, the coaches didn't change, but the scheme/process changed and they won. He did it in Reno - documented.  These are REAL LIFE examples.  Proof of concept, not some idiotic notion coming out of someone's head. Oh - and Cisar either does or has sold full season full game videos. Not highlights, full games.  Easy to see what the relative talent level is. There are some pretty virulent Cisar bashers on here, and one argument about him that I haven't really ever heard is that he always has more talent. In fact, he's made no bones about his habit of taking his org's LESS talented teams, and nobody has argued that point.

4. He's also exaggerating the counter argument and making an argument against a point nobody is actually making.  I don't believe anyone here is arguing that it's all coaching, talent doesn't matter. OBVIOUSLY it's a sliding scale, and not a single person argues that. There is a point of talent mismatch that no coach can overcome. Agreed. But it is nowhere near with this guy thinks it is.

So four is multiple levels of WRONG.  Provably wrong.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

I think the sliding scale is the best description.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline Prodigy

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2016, 12:44:05 PM »
No, I have the right person. When you have nothing to say, your veiled insults start flying. You might want to remain respectful of another person's opinion and not come off as an asshole.

Trust that Michael is a solid guy...actually 99% of the guys here are.  Where people get upset is when they take themselves too seriously, myself included.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: How to teach blocking to the whistle?
« Reply #59 on: September 15, 2016, 12:46:21 PM »
He is respectful 9 times out of 10

Most take offense when they realise theyre wrong and hes right lol

To know Michael is to know there is never a reason to be upset with him.  :)
Collect moments, not wins.