The Full Spin

[Coach Kyle]

I was looking for interesting plays for this formation, and I found the full spin. Out of this formation, it would look like this:

TE, T.G.C.G.T.....................SE
............Q.....S........FL

............F

The fullback would dive to the 2 or 4 hole on the first place. Or the Qb would keep it, and hand off to the Flanker (who used to be the SE that was on the line). The flanker would run a jet sweep, assisted by the slot who is the lead blocker. Ideally, this play would only be run against a 4-4 where the linebackers would be sucked into the dive, so the slot blocks the corner. Or, as a third option, the QB keeps the ball, after executing the two fakes, and goes off tackle. The Left guard pulls to kick out the DE, and the Slot blocks the linebacker. Ideally, this should only be run if the man on the FL is following the flanker.

This can also be run in the opposite direction with the TE, but it's a lot faster, and there's more bodies flying in every direction. For example, on the QB boot, the right (weak) guard would pull, and the slot would follow. The FB would dive to the place where the guard vacated, and the TE would pull around, the back, the slot would follow the guard while trying not to collide with the FB, and the Qb would boot.

[33coach]

coach,

do you have any film of this play?

[DumCoach]

I was looking for interesting plays for this formation, and I found the full spin. Out of this formation, it would look like this:

TE, T.G.C.G.T.....................SE
............Q.....S........FL

............F

Before I answer your question, looking at your formation, it got me thinking why they lined up with the FL outside the SE?  And - Duh! - the answer hit me!  You can throw a sideways screen to the FL with the SE blocking man over FL and Slot blocking man over SE and RT blocking man over Slot.  FL runs towards the QB after catching screen and turns upfield at first opportunity.  This was a very popular screen in the 90's.

Maybe this should be in the playbook?

Your question next.

[DumCoach]

I was looking for interesting plays for this formation, and I found the full spin. Out of this formation, it would look like this:

TE, T.G.C.G.T.....................SE
............Q.....S........FL

............F

The fullback would dive to the 2 or 4 hole on the first place. Or the Qb would keep it, and hand off to the Flanker (who used to be the SE that was on the line). The flanker would run a jet sweep, assisted by the slot who is the lead blocker. Ideally, this play would only be run against a 4-4 where the linebackers would be sucked into the dive, so the slot blocks the corner.

What about the DE?  If he penetrates, the slot will end up either running by him or blocking him and both are bad.

What about faking "24", pull RG, and run trap to the slot?  No motion required and good blocking angles.

Or, as a third option, the QB keeps the ball, after executing the two fakes, and goes off tackle. The Left guard pulls to kick out the DE, and the Slot blocks the linebacker. Ideally, this should only be run if the man on the FL is following the flanker.

What's the RB doing? Diving the "3"?

This can also be run in the opposite direction with the TE, but it's a lot faster, and there's more bodies flying in every direction.

The play I used to run was to fake the "23" and hand off the TE on "End around".  The Slot cracked the DE, SE had man over Slot, and FL had man over the SE.  You could pull the LG (I didn't.).  The play worked well.

For example, on the QB boot, the right (weak) guard would pull, and the slot would follow. The FB would dive to the place where the guard vacated, and the TE would pull around, the back, the slot would follow the guard while trying not to collide with the FB, and the Qb would boot.

Sounds like RG is going towards the TE with slot behind him.  Am not sure what the TE is doing.  Is QB booting towards the TE side?

[Coach Kyle]

What about the DE?  If he penetrates, the slot will end up either running by him or blocking him and both are bad.

That's why the FL is switched with the SE, so that he can go in motion. Perhaps the flanker could execute the sweep instead. That way you wouldn't have to switch them. He doesn't do enough anyways.

What about faking "24", pull RG, and run trap to the slot?  No motion required and good blocking angles.

One of the benefits of the motion is that it makes the linebackers think and it takes their eyes off the fullback. So his dives should get that extra step.

Now, do you mean a double wing style trap? or a jet sweep style?

If we're making a double wing, we're short a blocker.

I think I see a problem with the slot lead blocking though. If he does that, we're running him right through the fake dive. The pile may not clear, and he may not make it through. However, is he really needed? The TE can release to the corner, and the fake to the 23 should draw in the DE and OLB.

So after thinking about this while typing, I think I get what you meant. Have the slot run the jet sweep, and then there won't be any indication that the dive is a fake, so selling the fake should be easier. I like that because you don't draw any pesky DBs with your motion, so later the QB will thank you.

What's the RB doing? Diving the "3"?

Yup.

The play I used to run was to fake the "23" and hand off the TE on "End around".  The Slot cracked the DE, SE had man over Slot, and FL had man over the SE.  You could pull the LG (I didn't.).  The play worked well.

Yeah, that's pretty much the same play, only the fake would be to the 24 to set up the QB boot.

Sounds like RG is going towards the TE with slot behind him.  Am not sure what the TE is doing.  Is QB booting towards the TE side?

Yeah, the TE is faking the buck sweep to the right. So the RB fakes the 24, the TE fakes the sweep and takes an outside route. The RG will pull underneath to kick out the left DE (which is wide open thanks to the TE faking the sweep), and the slot (who probably isn't needed) will follow in the ally behind the RG, his responsibility will be the OLB on that side.

Originally this play was out of this formation

o..........o.o.0.o.o..................o
...o.............o....................o

..................o

It's a bit more clean out of it.

[jholley]

Before I answer your question, looking at your formation, it got me thinking why they lined up with the FL outside the SE?  And - Duh! - the answer hit me!  You can throw a sideways screen to the FL with the SE blocking man over FL and Slot blocking man over SE and RT blocking man over Slot.  FL runs towards the QB after catching screen and turns upfield at first opportunity.  This was a very popular screen in the 90's.

Maybe this should be in the playbook?
 Actually in the regular formation you can still run a buble screen to the slot.  After he catches the ball be than has two blockers blocking in for him so he can get to the sidelines. I already have it in my version  .  That is actually one of the audibles the QB can check to.
Your question next.

[Coach Kyle]

The only thing I don't understand about the bubble screen out of this formation is that the curl should work just fine.

If you have this defensive set up,


.....................x

..........x
........x........................x
......o..............o...........
.........o.......................o

I can see the slot blocking that corner, but I can also see the SE running a very effective curl. You'd probably run that play once or twice before they start to align like this:


.......x
.....x..................x...........x
....o..................o........
........o.............................o

And the bubble screen isn't really effective anymore.

[jholley]

I had my Flanker and slot about a yard back and about 3-4 yards from the WR.  We would call the screen when they only had two people covering the three of them (S & CB), the QB would look to see who the CB & S was over the top of and then called the screen to the remaining guy.  Normally, it was the Slot catching the ball and going out.  Every once in a while it would be the Flanker running a Slip Screen (the bubble but running the ball inside towards the other two after catching it.

[Coach Kyle]

I had my Flanker and slot about a yard back and about 3-4 yards from the WR.  We would call the screen when they only had two people covering the three of them (S & CB), the QB would look to see who the CB & S was over the top of and then called the screen to the remaining guy.  Normally, it was the Slot catching the ball and going out.  Every once in a while it would be the Flanker running a Slip Screen (the bubble but running the ball inside towards the other two after catching it.

You ran it more like a trips, right?

[jholley]

Not close enough that one guy could cover two BUT close enough that if the Slot called an Out that his defender would have to fight through his own players and my other two receivers.

[Coach Kyle]

Not close enough that one guy could cover two BUT close enough that if the Slot called an Out that his defender would have to fight through his own players and my other two receivers.

I meant, did you move your slot away from the line so that he was more of a wide out rather than a wing back?

I ask this because I know a lot of defenses don't like to move their linebackers too far away from the box, so what they split the difference between the trips man, rather than covering him head up.

[Coach Kyle]

By the way, this is where I first saw the play.

http://coachparker.org/2008/05/14/spin-offense-sweep-coaching-youth-football/

I guess I misunderstood the counter because one of the receivers actually got the ball.

[seeindouble]

Here's a video of the full spin posted by one of the coaches on the old forum:

http://www.youtube.com/user/SPINCOACHCA

[jholley]

Yes, I did move him out more as a WR.  I would motion him across and used him on Jet Sweeps and would then run a Jet option were the QB would read to see if the DE would chase the sweep man to hand off or keep and then run pitch with the FB.  Those were just a few of the plays I used with the slot to get him as part of the run game.

Actually, I hoped the moved the LB out.  That would make my FB dive so much more effective.

[Coach Kyle]

Yes, I did move him out more as a WR.  I would motion him across and used him on Jet Sweeps and would then run a Jet option were the QB would read to see if the DE would chase the sweep man to hand off or keep and then run pitch with the FB.  Those were just a few of the plays I used with the slot to get him as part of the run game.

Actually, I hoped the moved the LB out.  That would make my FB dive so much more effective.

How did you set up the blocking on jet sweeps?