Author Topic: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING  (Read 1516 times)

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Offline CoachJJ

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Offline ZACH

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 12:43:47 PM »
Great read thanks for sharing!
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Offline jkoester

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2011, 02:39:52 PM »
First - REALLY good kickers.

Second - holy sh*t that QB can play.

Offline mahonz

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2011, 03:02:04 PM »
Very agressive thinking...the NFL would flourish with coaches like that.

Online Michael

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2011, 04:06:20 PM »
I had a neat exchange with David Romer about an interview John Madden did.

Madden mentioned that players in Madden went for it on fourth down far more than coaches in the NFL did, so Madden had the designers make the game harder on fourth down.

However, the Madden players were actually just doing a better job of playing the percentages, if Romer was right.
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Offline objesguy44

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2011, 10:08:59 AM »
What do you guys think about this ??

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/scorecasting/09/15/kelley.pulaski/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


I actually really ascribe to a lot of what this coach does. A teacher I am friends here at my school originally shot me a piece from "Scorecasting" and being very interested in advanced stats in general (especially when it comes to football, basketball and baseball), I was kinda floored by the numbers. But it did get me thinking and I came to three conclusions why to not punt and always onside kick the ball with my middle school team.

1.) In terms of punting, I find punting at the youth level extremely risky. Either a.) you're not going to get enough blocking and get the punt blocked or b.) you're going to punt the ball to their BEST player and chances are your punter is no Shane Lechler and its going to be a line drive punt, which is going to play to the punt returner's advantage. In my mind when it comes to punting and even punt return, it's something you really have to repeat over and over again to get good at. In my experience at middle school, the return team is always going to have an automatic advantage over the punt team because of the punter's limitations, so why give them that advantage? For us, we basically have an hour of practice, and hour and 15 minutes AT BEST three times a week. So, I would rather just spend the extra time to work on offense and defense rather than try to do a mediocre punt team which is just going to waste a play and put us at risk for a big score and a huge swing in momentum.

2.) In terms of going for it, yes people can say it can change momentum, but if your kind of instill it in your team that we're going for it every 4th, the team really does treat it like any other down. I went for it on Fourth and seven once and our opposing team was basically acting as if a trick play or pass was coming. They all backed off the line of scrimmage. What did I run? Just a wedge to the blocking back and he rumbled for 10 yards and the first down. I don't think even the kids really knew what down it was! The bottom line, if the kids know they are not going to punt, they are going to treat it more like another down and thus won't feel the heat (though the other team and coaches will treat it bigger because they practice punt).

3.) In terms of the onside, I think it mirrors the decision not to punt. Who is going to be returning the ball? Their fastest and best athletes. Chances are, you're kicker is not going to kick a high deep ball so the ball is going to be quick and if you're lucky, your guys are probably going to be little more than halfway to the kick returner at best. Why give one of their two best athletes that much of a running start? If anything, they probably will just return to the ball where you would onside kick to anyways. Furthermore, it's funny how some teams don't adjust to us always onside kicking. We did nothing but onside kick a whole game, and they still remained in their base return. Again, it's so uncommon and it really keeps the ball away from their best players, which in my mind, is what you want to do in special teams.

Of course, some would see this as unsportsmanlike because it goes against the grain but to me, we abide by this theory because a.) we want to maximize practice time and b.) we don't want to give up big score and onside kicking and going for it on fourth allows us to do this.

(And if you have read Dave Cisar's stuff, he actually abides by this Pulaski coach's theory, though not as extreme. Dave basically says in his book that you should probably just go for it on fourth down and he supports onside kicking every play, sporting many of the same reasons I do (in fact, I probably ripped off a couple of his).)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 10:12:46 AM by objesguy44 »
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Offline 1 Cor 16:13

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2011, 03:01:39 PM »
I heard this story on the radio and the guys were talking about one of his onside kicks was some sort of punt so I got curious.  From what I can find in the Fed rules, it has to be a "drop kick" not a "punt".  Difference being a drop kick has to be kicked as it hits the ground or as it rises from bouncing off the ground.  A punt is kicked before it hits the ground.  Hmmm Who knew?  Don't think I'll ever waste the time to try that in youth ball, but still, I never knew that rule existed.  If you had a kicker that could pull it off, I bet you would surprise some people, but probably only once. 
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Offline CoachJJ

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2011, 04:00:03 PM »
I heard this story on the radio and the guys were talking about one of his onside kicks was some sort of punt so I got curious.  From what I can find in the Fed rules, it has to be a "drop kick" not a "punt".  Difference being a drop kick has to be kicked as it hits the ground or as it rises from bouncing off the ground.  A punt is kicked before it hits the ground.  Hmmm Who knew?  Don't think I'll ever waste the time to try that in youth ball, but still, I never knew that rule existed.  If you had a kicker that could pull it off, I bet you would surprise some people, but probably only once.


Click on the link and there is a video ... it shows the onside kick in question ... the first kicker runs up and pulls the ball off the tee and tosses it to another kicker who does a beautiful drop kick in the opposite direction of the first kicker ...
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Offline Shane

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2011, 08:52:46 PM »
I would love to have his on-side kick play book  ;D

Offline Vince148

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 11:40:11 AM »
I've read several articles over the years about going for it on 4th down. Makes a lot of sense.

Offline Vince148

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2011, 09:21:54 AM »
I would love to have his on-side kick play book  ;D

Just go through the video. I copied 7 different ones.

Offline CoachAnthony

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2011, 03:42:17 PM »
awesome article! i love it.i will never not go for it on 4th down again regardless of the distance.too much risk of momentum which is a huge deal in youth football.id rather turn it over on downs.mentally for the kids its not as big of a downer as getting a punt blocked or having a td returned.
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Online Michael

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2011, 03:50:18 PM »
He'll be at the Atlanta Glazier Select.
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Offline William Harrell

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2011, 10:05:26 PM »
Will be trying to go so I can see his Onside Kick presentation.
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Offline giantheart

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Re: Pulaski Academy - NO PUNTING - ALWAYS ONSIDE KICKING
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2012, 10:56:50 AM »
There was a segement on Pulaski on the HBO series real sports last night...Great segment...

Shows a bunch of his onside kick plays..including the drop kick..but from my memory I tought it was a punt.I'll have to look at it again
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 10:59:01 AM by giantheart »