DCWT in a SW-saturated league

[cbrm]

Is it wise to abandon a system just to be different?

As a new first-year HC in 2011, I was optimistic (naïve in retrospect) we would have an edge using the single wing in our 9-10 YO division.  I got early buy-in from my “also new” AC’s to run the SW, and onward we marched into August.  Our one and only pre-season scrimmage was very positive (we had more talent).  Things looked good.

Once games began, it became clear that almost every team we faced used a SW-based offense.  It was also evident our opponents were not first-year SW coaches either.   If this were not enough, EVERYONE scouts each other's teams with video.  While my hope was that I could ride the HC learning curve using the SW as the edge over evenly-matched opponents, it was not to be the case.  We were 1-3 against evenly-matched teams, and my lack of experience was certainly the primary reason.

I did not see any other team use the wing-T in our division.  That said, I want to consider the DCWT for 2012.  I really like the UBSW for this age level of mixed-talent, everybody-plays football, but I also would like to do something a little different from everyone else... while I continue to ride the learning curve.

[davecisar]

What league are you coaching in?

My research shows less than 3% of youth football teams nationwide are using the Single Wing offense. Obviously more so in some areas than others- but still a very small %.

[C-Rob]

For what it is worth, if I was in your shoes I would do something different.  At least for me, one of the strengths of the Single Wing is that it is contrarian so if I were in a league with predominately Single Wing teams I would look to run something different like DCWT. 

[cbrm]

Hello Coach Dave... I'm honored.

I am smack-dab in the center of DIV-I scandal, USA... Central PA.

While I don't want this to become a SW discussion (happy to do that in another forum), I should share that I use your system.  I used it all the way to Foundations.  I own 303, but I initially followed your advice to not use it, as I was both a first-year HC, and I did not realize how much effort was put into scouting.  Ultimately, we installed what we needed to attack both sides of the field successfully.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed using your program, my players loved it, and I believe my dollars were very well spent.  However, when defenders are automatically adjusting to our formationing without the help from coaches in the backfield, it becomes clear the SW is not foreign to our opposition.

As you and many others have stated, one of the strengths of the SW in youth football is due to the demographic stats you mentioned in your reply.  I have a feeling we must be in one of those pockets of SW popularity.  To reinforce this, one of my AC's has a brother who just aged out of coaching youth football.  After watching one of our games, he came to us to share that he used your program beginning five years earlier.  My AC never knew this.

I continue to realize I am no veteran coach, and that I will continue to make mistakes.  My inclination is, however, that any edge I can find (and manage) will ultimately help.  I am one who believes that plans can quickly become worthless, but planning is absolutely essential.  Now is not too early to plan for 2012, and when August 2012 arrives, I want to hit the ground running.

[davecisar]

Coach,
No problem- Please PM me with the exact league
When I go to clinics I do surveys
1000s of coaches worth of data
Still today, lots of leagues with ZERO Single WIng teams in them- this from clinics where people are attending MY sessions- a SIngle WIng guy
Our data shows less than 3%- but in places like Denver, it's higher for whatever reason, same for Maryland/Northern Viginia. In other parts of the country, non-existent

[mahonz]

What league are you coaching in?

My research shows less than 3% of youth football teams nationwide are using the Single Wing offense. Obviously more so in some areas than others- but still a very small %.

Dave

I'll do some reasearch for you....because I already have. 

Everywhere I go between two mega leagues....its comfortable to say that 1:12 are running the SW. This means if all divisions have 12 teams...generally the case....one is running the SW....generally the case.  Its fun to walk around our Metro wide pre season Jamboree Event and see all of the different systems. The SW is a popular choice.

Our Super Smurf division this past season...18 teams and 5 ran the SW that I know of now. Two were Cisar deciples that I know of. Some will say our team was a SW team as well. Pretty much but not traditional...so you could say an incrediable 1:3 ran the SW.

There are certainly pockets...and as long as you keep coming to Denver for the fine dining.... ....its only going to spread.

[mahonz]

Dave

In case you were wondering….

The Super Smurf 11-0 Champs…..Cisar SW. They were one of the last teams put together by the largest orgs in our league…1 of 4 teams they fielded. All blind draft. The reason they were so good….their Center IMO.  His ability to direct snap to multiple backs was quite advanced. Fun to watch. We never played them but scouted them for the playoffs.

My good buddy and our orgs FB Director had to beat a Cisar SW team in order to win his championship at the D1 3rd grade level. They did play in the regular season and again in the playoffs so I had him ask the coach who insired him. Apparently the bulk of their org runs your offense. That makes two of the smaller orgs out of 17 total that have bought into your offense as a group. They were both new to our league this season and did well.

[Michael]

It's completely natural that this sort of thing clusters.

[davecisar]

MIke

Like I said, I know Denver is one of those pockets for whatever reason
May have something to do is we love Denver, it's close, we come every year to do a clinic, ski and yes you DO have some good eats. I know this is going to sound absurd, but we love this 1 Sushi place right where we like to do our clinics at. We also like several Diners/Drive type places in Idaho Springs and Breck

I spoke to the guy who won your young kids age group with our stuff in the last month, seems like a great guy.

[mahonz]

I spoke to the guy who won your young kids age group with our stuff in the last month, seems like a great guy.

Dave

He is...good coach as well. I know his orgs FB Director very well and he speaks highly of him. 

[cbrm]

Dave,

I not certain the PM I sent you went through.

I did not specifically see your system being used, but more than half of our 8-team division was SW.  The team that went undefeated this season (before playoffs) ran SW.  They ran mostly out of a beast formation (I believe similar to your super omaha).  They had tailback speed that few teams could match.  We successfully installed this after we saw it work in the other team's scout video.  Given our lack of speed to consistently reach the corner, we ultimately used this formation and allowed our tailbacks to read the blocks.  We simply called Beast Right or Beast Left (Flip).  We added a pass to this formation to keep the secondary honest.  It worked quite well.

[Bob Goodman]

In our 5 team Pee Wee div., this year one of the teams wound up snapping about half the time from UBSW -- not Dave Cisar's and not all that well.

One thing you might consider is making a conservative switch, i.e. changing to another version of single wing or to another offense that's enough like single wing to make your team's prep easy but different enough to make defensive prep against it harder.  You can get some ideas from Delphi's single wing etc. forum, Adam Wesoloski's direct snap site, and, once it's built up enough content, the single wing proboard Coach Tut has started.

Of the SW teams you played against, how many were using what appeared to be Dave Cisar's version of UBSW?  How many ran it strong left & right both?  Any do it strong left only?

[markhansen]

CBRM,

You've got a lot of time.  Reading through the DCWT manual is worth the time spent (and worth way more than it costs), whether or not you end up using it.  You already know the UBSW - at least a years worth, taking a month or two to look into the DCWT is worth it.  I came across it during my second year of coaching and we had a huge turnaround and ended up being in the championship game of a 44 team league our second year running it, with probably top 20-25% talent. 

This last year we had very little talent or numbers to work with and switched to Cisar's UBSW mid-season, with some success.  They are both great offenses, but here too (Boise), more and more SW teams are popping up.  5 years ago I only knew of 1 team running it, this year there were at least 5 including ourselves.  I'm working to learn more offenses, just for fun, but anytime I feel I have a QB that can throw OK and FB that can run hard, I'll be back to the DCWT.  It's a great offense for a creative coach and is adaptable to about anything.  If you know you are being scouted hard - as we were when we played 3 consecutive teams that worked together to defeat us - we had enough options offensively to use their advanced scouting against them.

As Clark likes to say, it becomes a game of practice time.  You can make more effective adjustments in a week of practice with the DCWT than the other team can while preparing for the things you did the last game - make sense?  Whatever you end up choosing, it's worth the time to learn.  Heck, if you're here in December you're hooked on coaching - might as well make the most of it.

[cbrm]

Of the SW teams you played against, how many were using what appeared to be Dave Cisar's version of UBSW?  How many ran it strong left & right both?  Any do it strong left only?

We played no team which presented a "fresh" Cisar look.  One of the teams looked VERY similar, but had a non-crouching, deeper-set backfield, and the OL had wider splits.

We mostly saw strong R and L as I recall.  One team in particular was predominantly strong R, but no team was all strong L.

Thanks.

[cbrm]

CBRM,

I'm working to learn more offenses, just for fun, but anytime I feel I have a QB that can throw OK and FB that can run hard, I'll be back to the DCWT.  It's a great offense for a creative coach and is adaptable to about anything.  If you know you are being scouted hard - as we were when we played 3 consecutive teams that worked together to defeat us - we had enough options offensively to use their advanced scouting against them.

75% of my starting backfield in 2011 were 9YO (in a 9-10 division).  Of the remaining three, 2 will have exceeded ball-carrying weight by 2012 (100-lb wo equipment).  The remaining boy fits Clark's FB definition to a tee.  I will also have a returning player that can really throw (don't know how he is under pressure).

Heck, I'm here in December because I personally have a long way to go!

Thanks.