Author Topic: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE  (Read 4945 times)

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Offline CoachCalande

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353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« on: December 23, 2011, 08:40:43 AM »
Here is something to get the discussion started:

1- Do you prefer to use multiple fronts, Ie, do you use some 34, 44, 43, 46 or do you strictly sit in the 353 ...and why?


2- Do you prefer to use various alignment techniques up front or do you always play in one particular shade? What alignments shades do you use and why? ( lets call head up , 4 tech, outside shade 5 tech, inside shade 4i for consistency in the discussion)


3- Do you play mostly man to man or mostly cover 3 or other? Do you mix up your coverages - why?



4- What is your favorite drill for the front three? why?



5- What is your favorite drill for your second level and why?


6- what is your favorite drill for your corners/safety and why?



7- how often are you sending 4, 5, 6, 7 or even 8/9 rushers?



8- what have you identified as problem areas for your own particular flavor of the 353? what do you do to remedy those issues?


9- Whats your favorite comment from players, parents or oponnents who have faced your stack defense?



10-  What do you look for in terms of player characteristics when it comes to placing your athletes in positions?



Happy Holidays.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2011, 11:45:06 AM »
Here is something to get the discussion started:

1- Do you prefer to use multiple fronts, Ie, do you use some 34, 44, 43, 46 or do you strictly sit in the 353 ...and why?

Multiple fronts but only when not stunting and against certain formations. We do not consider the TE a #1 therefore when no SE or WO shows the CB is free. If  a #1 shows but is a SE then the Spur is free. In these scenarios the CB or Spur will play on the LOS and becomes the force player from that side.

The reason is that position playing force from the LOS  has no one to immediately block him. He takes on lead blocks or creates havoc in the backfield.


2- Do you prefer to use various alignment techniques up front or do you always play in one particular shade? What alignments shades do you use and why? ( lets call head up , 4 tech, outside shade 5 tech, inside shade 4i for consistency in the discussion)

Two TE’s or no TE’s we play 404. One TE we play 513 to the strong side. When one or more of the backers is playing taps and not on a delay that D Linemen will always play an even tech. Full taps 404…both outside stacks playing taps 414…..one outside stack playing taps 514 or 413 depending on the side. When we delay blitz its base rules 404 or 513 tot eh strong side. The reason being is we want the DL not showing sameness and attacking a gap straight up if not involved in a stunt. We have calls for the DL when they are playing a 404 and not involved in a stunt….slant, fan, pinch.

We will also tilt the DT’s and play a 505 at times. This combined with a double outside stack delayed blitz is a favorite call.


3- Do you play mostly man to man or mostly cover 3 or other? Do you mix up your coverages - why?

Man.

4- What is your favorite drill for the front three? why?

Any drill that promotes them getting off the double team. Learning to Rip and Swim is a must. We don’t have one in particular but rather a series they all run through weekly. We will avoid at all costs playing minimum players at the TNT positions.

5- What is your favorite drill for your second level and why?

Any drill that promotes flow, keeping the outside arm free and playing cousins while filling. Your Bermuda Triangle Drill is one of these drills.

6- what is your favorite drill for your corners/safety and why?

Bump and Run drills. Mirror drills. Pursuit drills.

7- how often are you sending 4, 5, 6, 7 or even 8/9 rushers?

Never more than 6, never less than 3. It really depends on the opponent but I believe that sameness is death but you have to mix things up with some reasoning behind it and not to stunt just to stunt.

8- what have you identified as problem areas for your own particular flavor of the 353? what do you do to remedy those issues?

Contain. Playing the CB’s bump and run means they can get run off so they never have contain when a #1 shows. With all of the multiple moving pieces parts this D incorporates you have to be coaching up the kids when they have contain.

DL or stacks blowing by the football. This D can be overly aggressive with defenders running right past the football. When that happens its typically a very big play for the Offense. Not much you can do about that except to train all of them that when unblocked they must breakdown.
 


9- Whats your favorite comment from players, parents or opponents who have faced your stack defense?

A 3 man front? At the youth level? Hahahahhhaaaahhahhahhhhaaaaa ! Yer gonna get killed.

10-  What do you look for in terms of player characteristics when it comes to placing your athletes in positions?

Smarts with an unselfish attitude. Lots of things going on so the faster they learn to play football as a unit the better. This is not a one-man show. Everything affects something and there is little room for error. I do not look at this philosophy as bend but don’t break. Its break the Offense every play.

Happy Holidays.

Ditto !

Offline CoachCalande

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2011, 12:24:03 PM »
Great response, shows you " we play a 353" doesnt mean we play the same defense.
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Online Michael

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2011, 02:27:31 PM »
9- Whats your favorite comment from players, parents or opponents who have faced your stack defense?

A 3 man front? At the youth level? Hahahahhhaaaahhahhahhhhaaaaa ! Yer gonna get killed.


Ha.  I bet it works especially well against the teams (and there seem to be a lot of them) who block D-Linemen and leave the LBs alone.
“If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein

Offline CoachCalande

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2011, 08:02:34 AM »
One of the looks we will use with man to man coverage this year...puts our Mike backer on the line in a 2i technique, bumps the nose to a 2i as well. we will have the option to leave our dts head up in 4 techs or bump them to a "torpedo" (5 tech)...
----------------------------------O
---------------O-----------------O------------------------------O
---------O---------------O--O--X--O--O--O
--------------------------T----N---M----T
----------------L------------------------------------R
--------------------------W-------------S
--------C------------------------------------------------------C

----------------------------------F

WE USED IT IN COVER THREE, BUT Im going to use some man to man and bring the sam and will in taps with the dts, push the fs up like a middle backer....itll be a 65 post snap.
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Offline Coach Big B

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2011, 01:22:12 PM »
Here is something to get the discussion started:

1- Do you prefer to use multiple fronts, Ie, do you use some 34, 44, 43, 46 or do you strictly sit in the 353 ...and why?

We ran only two,but will run more looks this up coming season. When I spoken with other coaches that ran this system they stress the importance of running many looks up front without changing the assignments of the players. Many coaches have told me that if you get into a habit of coming with the same look great coaches will catch up with you. So This season we will install many fronts that won't put our players in a position where they will have to change what they do rules wise.

2- Do you prefer to use various alignment techniques up front or do you always play in one particular shade? What alignments shades do you use and why? ( lets call head up , 4 tech, outside shade 5 tech, inside shade 4i for consistency in the discussion)

Our shades was based off of our calls. This will take way too much time to cover in this post..but we used different shades based off of our calls. Most of the time we was head up and ran our stunts to keep the o-line off balanced.


3- Do you play mostly man to man or mostly cover 3 or other? Do you mix up your coverages - why?

Man and Man/Zone. Why because we bring the heat!!!! Damn playing zone with pressure coming and coming all game long. I love zone, but when I went to this system I saw that Man was way more easier to teach and install. I saw that once man was put in zone with certain players and areas was way more easier. This was more of a personnel move then anything else as well as the base call that was being made defensively.



4- What is your favorite drill for the front three? why?

Get offs, defensive stimulus drills, beating double teams, and pursuit based drills.


5- What is your favorite drill for your second level and why?

Pursuit Drills, Defensive Stimulus drills, read/react drills, Angle tackling, and sheding tech. based drills. We also spent a lot of time with pass coverage drops.

6- what is your favorite drill for your corners/safety and why?

Same as LB's, but we would really stress any based tech. drills here. We really worked on drops, reads, playing the run, and pursuit based drills. Teaching the youth DB IMO is the harderst job hands down. They're left on an island often and in certain leagues they will throw. We would really work on defensive stimulus and also used drills from Coach Lee on base reads at the line to tell the DB if it's run or pass. We would work on breaking down the WR and knowing when a stalk block is coming and how to shed. Preventing double moves and playing the run. Our DB's at 9 was way more prepared than any level at our club last season. You always have to work with them because of all of the pressure a youth DB can be under in a game. We really worked on shed, rip, and contain based stuff.


7- how often are you sending 4, 5, 6, 7 or even 8/9 rushers?

We send 7-5 a down!!!! We send wood and often. The reaction off attack is what allow us to adjust to other stunt packages. Anything more than 7 I need to get fired as a coach. That is telling me that my men aren't generating pressure. 8/9 is way too many and I want to account for every player on the field every down. The joy is when you can dial down the number of defenders and still get plenty of pressure.


8- what have you identified as problem areas for your own particular flavor of the 353? what do you do to remedy those issues?

Power Sets when the players were bigger than us. We killed spread and most based sets. The problem is when you're playing against a large team and they pound on you. This is when the other fronts and kids using proper tech. is number one. My kids didn't like our based shift to contain the power rushing attack. When used and ran properly these sets was shut down with no problem. The other thing is kids firing off and at times getting pass the ball carrier. This can be fixed with drills. You will see that no rev, counters, or misdirection plays will come off. You will also see that spread has little to no chance against this system. You will also see that shifting to off balanced sets won't work. By this system being a balanced base you can't get out flanked. If you run many fronts with stunts you will destroy power based sets.

9- Whats your favorite comment from players, parents or oponnents who have faced your stack defense?

When they thought we was a 3-4 team. Hard to pick up and read. You had us up all night trying to understand your system. I will kill you defense and lose the game because they couldn't block it. Kids can't run a 353 and your hurting the kids teaching them this system. (Coaches we played against the last one from a coach on my staff that was fired)

I love your system and how aggressive my son is now. I didn't know that 9 yo kids could run a HS/College based system. What in the world is that defense your running it will get killed against a good team. (Parents)

Please call Superman coach!!!!  (players)


10-  What do you look for in terms of player characteristics when it comes to placing your athletes in positions?

The system allows us to use any kid. Your best go to LB/DB. Your stronger players go to D-line. You smarter players go to FS/MLB. I can use MPP's, smaller players, etc. with no issue. The issue is getting enough snaps for everyone get 8 plus snaps. You need aggressive kids period when you run this system. your LB's have to be fast, good tacklers, fearless, and go hard!!! Your D-line have to be guys that don't care about their stats but want to punch the o-line in the mouth. They love when they get doubled team because that mean that they're putting in work and can't be contained one on one. They know if they keep firing off the other will get free and then put them back in position later to get one on one. My D-line was my heart. They get it in and the foundation of my system. The DB's have to have a short memory and trust their tech. I never say "Don't get beat deep!" They have to be fast, smart, and keep their heads in the game. FS/MLB are animals and can play sideline from sideline. They're your best players and are your Capt.'s of your unit. They make calls, adjust to shifts, and the backbone of the system. The other funnel the play to these players and will lead in tackles and generating turnovers.

Happy Holidays.

Same to you.

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Offline coachdonhigh

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2011, 03:27:37 PM »
One of the looks we will use with man to man coverage this year...puts our Mike backer on the line in a 2i technique, bumps the nose to a 2i as well. we will have the option to leave our dts head up in 4 techs or bump them to a "torpedo" (5 tech)...
----------------------------------O
---------------O-----------------O------------------------------O
---------O---------------O--O--X--O--O--O
--------------------------T----N---M----T
----------------L------------------------------------R
--------------------------W-------------S
--------C------------------------------------------------------C

----------------------------------F

WE USED IT IN COVER THREE, BUT Im going to use some man to man and bring the sam and will in taps with the dts, push the fs up like a middle backer....itll be a 65 post snap.



Coach thats my "Captain America" Line up and I used that MORE and MORE toward the end when we played teams with double tights or Leagues that doesnt allow head up over the center! We Press the Corners and Call "Super Man Or Thor 5225 X" All Out Blitz Only way u can beat that is Quick Screens and We have that covered but I will also take my Stack Backer and AUTO BLITZ him to the weak-side if your Spread me out and SWEEP TEAM!


Coach Don High
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Offline CoachAD

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2011, 11:39:54 AM »
Coach,

  I will go in depth with my answer later BUT my problems running the 353 at the youth level have always been:

- I have a hard time putting top talent on the line, although I believe that may be the key to being successful in this defense

- I have a hard time finding 3 ILB's to consistently play downhill

- I have a hard time getting my Spurs/Dogs to contain.

- If I had a 25+ man roster I could believe I could make this work, we just did in a tournament setting.  however with 6 MPP's on a 15 man roster I have a very hard time being competitive running a scheme that requires 5 LB's plus talent on the line

Offline mahonz

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2011, 11:46:49 AM »
Coach,

  I will go in depth with my answer later BUT my problems running the 353 at the youth level have always been:

- I have a hard time putting top talent on the line, although I believe that may be the key to being successful in this defense

- I have a hard time finding 3 ILB's to consistently play downhill

- I have a hard time getting my Spurs/Dogs to contain.

- If I had a 25+ man roster I could believe I could make this work, we just did in a tournament setting.  however with 6 MPP's on a 15 man roster I have a very hard time being competitive running a scheme that requires 5 LB's plus talent on the line


Coach

We ran the table and hoisted the big shiny trophy in a very competitive division playing our least talented players at MLB and FS. 7th grade team so passing was certainly a threat. Helped that our O was a scoring machine as well.

I do agree. Talent at the TNT positions is a wonderful thing if you can swing it. We had the best DL in the league that season and they made the world go round for sure.

Offline CoachCalande

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2011, 04:37:44 PM »
Interesting, my philosophy has been to be as strong as possible right down the center of the defense.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2011, 04:46:30 PM »
Interesting, my philosophy has been to be as strong as possible right down the center of the defense.


Steve

We had the dream team TNT and a NG that shut down the middle....so....the MLB was not in harms way and typically 3rd to make the tackles....spurs set the force with the OLB's making tackles.

FS had the speed but was not a great open field great tackler but could force the play to the sidelines and go for the ints. Its just how this team worked out but I cant stress it enough...if you can spare the talent....the TNT is what makes this D really click.

Offline mahonz

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2011, 06:10:01 PM »
 We ran this for one playoff game. It was designed specifically for this really good split back cross fire team with two OT's that just made you say wow. So we occupied these OT's with a couple of sacrificial lambs and blitzed from every which a way. We could not have managed this well had we not been a 353 team.

Nearly worked...we lost to these monsters 18-12. Their OL chased for the entire game and were very frustrated. QB got nearly broken in half if he ran a sneak. They did not wedge. They won the big shiny trophy the next week by 50 something points.

Thereafter we went to the less is more philosophy vs quite a few talented teams with very good results....meaning....if you are going to bring 6+ vs a well oiled DW team then you are playing right into their scheme.



Offline Jetscoach

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2011, 07:25:08 PM »
Mahonz, did you use your 33 umbrella defense and if so how far back did you scale it down for 8 year olds? I was also wondering what you thought of some of the latest 33 d's being discussed here as well?

Offline mahonz

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2011, 09:14:15 PM »
Mahonz, did you use your 33 umbrella defense and if so how far back did you scale it down for 8 year olds? I was also wondering what you thought of some of the latest 33 d's being discussed here as well?


Jet

The youngest age group I have coached that particular D to were 11 year olds. We have also used that D verbatim with the semi pros so its more advanced.

If you want to run that D with the younger kids then I’d go with JJ’s stack attack and then progress from there if you feel the need to expand. I am a firm believer in teaching good second level play with the older kids so I am not a bring 6+ every down coach at all.

I watched my grandsons second grade team give that 33 bring 6+ every down a go just this past season. NO THANKS. They were mostly a 46 team by seasons end. This with TWO experienced 33 coaches on the staff.  Not sure how coaches get by playing D like that but they do.  :-\

I really like Terry’s stuff ( Coach Cox). I like how the MLB is actually learning how to play MLB’r among other things.

I am also expecting something to come out of Steve’s camp in the near future. Maybe after one more season. I guarantee it will be a good one as well. He is very thorough.

My thoughts. I do not believe there is a D that you can teach to a Super Smurfs that will also be solid for you in MS. Things must adapt.   


Offline Jetscoach

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Re: 353 SERIOUS DISCUSSION HERE
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2011, 09:47:42 PM »
I wasn't sure if you used that(33 umbrella) for the age group you were coaching or not. I reviewed it the other day as I was looking at my 33 stuff, so I thought I would ask as it seemed pretty intense for 8yr olds. I would probably run something similar to Cox's if I were inclined to run a 33. I really like the tilt that he has in his d. What do you guys do in goal line situations? Do you move to a 7 diamond or something else?