Author Topic: 5-3 vs the spread??  (Read 1540 times)

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Offline jcarbon2

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5-3 vs the spread??
« on: January 14, 2012, 05:45:41 PM »
Guys,

Would like to see how you guys deal with the spread from the 5-3. We are a base 5-3 Double Eagle and have been considering jumping into the 3-5-3 vs no TE spread formations.


Online Daniel Lyons

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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 06:06:49 PM »
I can tell you my whole spread attack was written and based on teams keeping the two outside stand up contain DE's that most youth football defenses employ.

When they don't use those guys it makes it a little bit tougher on us.

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Offline jcarbon2

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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 06:27:57 PM »
I can tell you my whole spread attack was written and based on teams keeping the two outside stand up contain DE's that most youth football defenses employ.

When they don't use those guys it makes it a little bit tougher on us.


Coach,

We have a few things we do but I like to move our ends out to a tweener position (OLB). The 4i create blocking problems.



..............F........................................S..
...............................W........M...
.....C........E..........T.......N.......T..........E.............C
.....X...................T...G...C...G...T........................Y
.............H..........................................Z...
....................................Q.....F




Offline CoachShad

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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 08:22:15 PM »
Truth be told I dont want DE types on the field.  I would seriously look at 3-3-5 and play it 6 on 5 up front!!  Barring that I would certainly look at subbing LB's for DE's for better coverage and the ability to come off the edge!!

Need some real Tanks on the LOS though.

 
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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2012, 08:25:48 PM »
Guys,

Would like to see how you guys deal with the spread from the 5-3. We are a base 5-3 Double Eagle and have been considering jumping into the 3-5-3 vs no TE spread formations.


What coverage do you want to play? Thats your first question. Your second question is how many do you want to rush? Those two things are tied together.
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Offline CoachShad

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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2012, 09:39:56 PM »
What coverage do you want to play? Thats your first question. Your second question is how many do you want to rush? Those two things are tied together.


While I agree with that, I still dont want DE types regardless.  They cannot cover consistently and the Zone Blitz is only good so often.    ;) 
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Offline Coach_Bob

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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2012, 06:10:01 AM »
I run a 5-3, I leave my line alone my NT will stay 0tech or I will move him to shade strong (1 tech), Tackles I keep at a 4i (ive found that in that position the o-line will double team them and leave my linebackers alone), my DE's are linebacker types both in a 9 tech ( they are turned in two steps in and rush dont stand around and get cracked), Line backers get changed I go to a 5-2 look turn my best cover LB into a SS and play man, tried Zone in 5th 6th just couldnt get the kids to stay when it looks like there man is leaving or couldnt get them to react to the ball fast enough. I see 2 spread type teams a year what hurts us the most is Bubble screens to the backs over our rush ends. If that happens consistantly I will Zone drop the wide DE but not often just enough to let them know I'm on to them.

Offline jcarbon2

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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 07:30:49 AM »
What coverage do you want to play? Thats your first question. Your second question is how many do you want to rush? Those two things are tied together.


Steve,

Cover 0, 1 and 3. But mostly C 0 and C 1.


Offline jcarbon2

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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 07:32:19 AM »
While I agree with that, I still dont want DE types regardless.  They cannot cover consistently and the Zone Blitz is only good so often.    ;)


Does not seem to be a problem with us at the youth level. We don't zone blitz ;)

Offline jcarbon2

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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 07:33:57 AM »
I run a 5-3, I leave my line alone my NT will stay 0tech or I will move him to shade strong (1 tech), Tackles I keep at a 4i (ive found that in that position the o-line will double team them and leave my linebackers alone), my DE's are linebacker types both in a 9 tech ( they are turned in two steps in and rush dont stand around and get cracked), Line backers get changed I go to a 5-2 look turn my best cover LB into a SS and play man, tried Zone in 5th 6th just couldnt get the kids to stay when it looks like there man is leaving or couldnt get them to react to the ball fast enough. I see 2 spread type teams a year what hurts us the most is Bubble screens to the backs over our rush ends. If that happens consistantly I will Zone drop the wide DE but not often just enough to let them know I'm on to them.


Similar to my diagram coach. How do you deal with trips??

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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2012, 08:27:28 AM »
Coach,

We have a few things we do but I like to move our ends out to a tweener position (OLB). The 4i create blocking problems.



..............F........................................S..
...............................W........M...
.....C........E..........T.......N.......T..........E.............C
.....X...................T...G...C...G...T........................Y
.............H..........................................Z...
....................................Q.....F


That defense leaves you vulnerable to the quick inside lead play with a direct snap to F and Q leading or Q keeping and F leading.  You have a 7 on 5 match up that favors the offense.   

It can be blocked a number of different ways, but usually ends up with an ISO by the lead back on the LB.

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Offline Vince148

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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2012, 08:35:28 AM »
How about something like this...

.....................................................Q....H
.............................FL...........................................FL
.............SE............................T..G..C..G..T..............................SE
.................C....................E......T....N.....T.....E.......................C
............................................M................F
..............................S...........................................W

Could play games with the LBers/FS. If W blitzes, F can take FL. Same thing with Sam and Mike. S & W can play a cover-2 look with F or M being a robber.

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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2012, 09:19:17 AM »
Steve,

Cover 0, 1 and 3. But mostly C 0 and C 1.


Well, our 353 is really just 53 personnel, essentially the same kids wed have used in the 46...because they are our best football players, defense is about putting the best atheltes you have on the field first and foremost...once the ball is snapped all heck breaks loose and you want your best 11 out there.

with cover three, you can and will blitz, fire zone stuff is simple and proven effective, that means playing 3 under and 3 deep and bringing five.   Then when you want to bring your three stacked backers youll want to man up with simple rules.

I suggest this:

your corners have 1, your ends have 2 and your fs has 3.  If you dont mind the 5-1 look then you can simply adjust it to a "SWAP" call meaning now the ends rush and the sam and will ajust taking #2. (youll essentially be in the same look we used in the 46 vs spread)

I think, with defensive end types in space, youre better off playing cover three, blitzing 2 and having holes knowing "yeah, there are holes, but youd better find them fast" while playing three sure tacklers back there to make plays if they do throw it soft underneath.

I spent two days reading on hueys and the whole "coverage vs stunting" thing is on  everyones mind, theres no right or wrong, just what works and what doesnt. The fact remains, if you can get pressure and disrupt the passing game with fewer rushers, its better to do that, if you cant get pressure and yorue going to give up big plays, then youd better find a way to get pressure.

Im a "rush five" guy myself because I dont think I have ever had 3 or 4 guys that could really bother a qb regularly, but with 5, they arent going to block everyone consistently.   

I was reading one guys comments about how nova won a national championship in cover 3  90% of the time, this is more or less what we are about now.  This year I want to be about 15% man to man and you really just need some simple adjustments on how you want to cope with trips.  For you, you can PULL the three backers to the trips side and have a 34 look, you can spin the secondary, you can play SOS or (spurs other side) as we call it....etc etc.

gimme a call if you want to talk about it.
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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2012, 09:34:21 AM »
Hey John, take a look at this attachment, I just drew it up quickly but I think it answers your question...
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Re: 5-3 vs the spread??
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2012, 09:49:40 AM »
Heres a look at Novas 33 in a loss to NH last season

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHLHWA1zPNM

I think you can see some of the looks when the sam/will walk to the los while the spur is out in a walk away position on #2, you can easily SWAP there.
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