Inxerted veer?

[morris]

There are a number of ways to run inverted veer.  You can block it a number of different ways.  You can block with straight down blocking (which is basiclly veer blocking) or like power which has been shown in this thread.  Yes you can run it pretty young. 

[Jburk]

There are a number of ways to run inverted veer.  You can block it a number of different ways.  You can block with straight down blocking (which is basically veer blocking) or like power which has been shown in this thread.  Yes you can run it pretty young.

Last year I ran speed option from the gun with a 10-11 year old team, and I found that it was difficult to get the QB to run at the inside shoulder of the DE. Both of my QB's were just wholesale uncomfortable with that; consequently, our speed option never really took off. If we were to have ran this inverted veer in place of speed option, I'm thinking that we would've had more success since we've eliminated the need for a QB to run right at the DE. My thinking is that inverted veer might be an easier option play to run with 10-11 year olds than speed option would be.

And like I said, since tackle trap was the base play of the run game, it would seem logical that adding inverted veer using the exact same blocking scheme would be a fairly easy addition. In doing this, I could run all of my plays out of the trap series, and run a double option play; all using the exact same blocking scheme. That's up to 5 plays all using the same blocking. I like that.

Thanks Morris

[durfee4]

Ok thanks for all the great input.Another question. what formation if un=bal or tight gives you more bang for the buck in simplicity,Will also be speading it out at times ,spit back,offset/wing-t,I, pw-t ?

[CoachShad]

I caution that you cannot simply work the Double option.  Look at what happened to Tebow against the Patriots. 

The addition of a TE allows PA that can kill an aggressive defense.  As pointed out a QB who is scared or refuses to pitch is also no good for this to work.  If you look a Clark's material on the DCWT he has what I call a "Freeze Option" which is merely going straight at the DE (Read) and forcing his hand to come at me, then pitch.  Not every kid likes the idea of getting hit and some don't give a damn and wont pitch anyway.   It's your job to make sure you put the right kid or at least force the kid (by calling the keep/pitch) you have to do it!! 

Option football is fun and hard to defend but making it work takes a ton of reps and hors of practice.  Are you willing to put the effort in??  I wll say that Tebow's glimmer of success might hold hope for those who are!!

 

[mahonz]

I caution that you cannot simply work the Double option.  Look at what happened to Tebow against the Patriots. 

The addition of a TE allows PA that can kill an aggressive defense.  As pointed out a QB who is scared or refuses to pitch is also no good for this to work.  If you look a Clark's material on the DCWT he has what I call a "Freeze Option" which is merely going straight at the DE (Read) and forcing his hand to come at me, then pitch.  Not every kid likes the idea of getting hit and some don't give a damn and wont pitch anyway.   It's your job to make sure you put the right kid or at least force the kid (by calling the keep/pitch) you have to do it!! 

Option football is fun and hard to defend but making it work takes a ton of reps and hors of practice.  Are you willing to put the effort in??  I wll say that Tebow's glimmer of success might hold hope for those who are!!

 

S

What is interesting about this particular deal is you dont have to pitch...ever.

It seems if you marry read option...this invert thing and follows with ONE TE at the youth level you have a full offense.

Dont even have to pull either. OZ for read portion to the RB side....OZ for the invert for the QB.....IZ for the follow. Counter...reverse the direction of the blocking and use cutback backfield actions. 

A little smattering of play action....ready to roll. No way any youth DC figures out how to switch fill the OLB's. The base works from day one to day 101.

Heck...it really looks good as a 2x2 / 3x1 double tight formation. Then you can pound away north and south on all youth fronts that show regardless. Couple of smart TE's would be the key.

[Jburk]

S

What is interesting about this particular deal is you dont have to pitch...ever.

It seems if you marry read option...this invert thing and follows with ONE TE at the youth level you have a full offense.

Dont even have to pull either. OZ for read portion to the RB side....OZ for the invert for the QB.....IZ for the follow. Counter...reverse the direction of the blocking and use cutback backfield actions. 

A little smattering of play action....ready to roll. No way any youth DC figures out how to switch fill the OLB's. The base works from day one to day 101.

Heck...it really looks good as a 2x2 / 3x1 double tight formation. Then you can pound away north and south on all youth fronts that show regardless. Couple of smart TE's would be the key.

Coach Mike, the more I play around with this on the whiteboard, the more I like it. Like you said, it's option football without pitching the ball. You'd have to get that mesh right though to make it work. When I see Auburn run inverted veer, it looks as though the QB does a little hop step when he's meshing with the FB. Seems as though it drags out the mesh a bit longer for the read.

[CoachShad]

We are talking about Veer so the assumption on my part was Veer blocking with the Pull.  The fact is that you are still 2 x 2 using a TE

1(X).............T...G...C...G...T....1(TE).......................
........2(R)............................................2(Y)
.........................Q..H

Now the defense is in a quandry since the TE can release to Veer block and Q can use the Point method.  The OSLB has to honor the TE's release thus making PA possible (a staple of the Veer Passing Game).  You also and correctly (inho) infer that IZ and OZ would be more user friendly for a Typical 2 X 2.  I still go back to the fact that the type of blocking scheme used is, more than likely, because thats how the particular coach learned to block for the option.  Personally speaking its a matter of preference how you block it. 

Tenopir would use IZ and Pin and Pull (OZ).  Frank Lenti at Nt Carmel HS would use Veer Schemes. Neither is right or wrong. 

 

[mahonz]

Coach Mike, the more I play around with this on the whiteboard, the more I like it. Like you said, it's option football without pitching the ball. You'd have to get that mesh right though to make it work. When I see Auburn run inverted veer, it looks as though the QB does a little hop step when he's meshing with the FB. Seems as though it drags out the mesh a bit longer for the read.

J

Me too but with at least one TE always.

Amazingly, the last undefeated Championship season I was part of we ran no TE’s all year yet all I did all year long was miss my beloved TE.

Coach Vince with his hybrid SW formation  looks interesting as well. There are so many things you can do with the BB position. He can run all traps as well so you have an extra linemen to get vertical.  Plus he can lead most plays and learn to chip a cheating edge defender. Backfield action would have to be smooth and quick.....no dancing.

BTW...we ran the SW for a few seasons a long time ago with a very talented team. Our #1 receiver...the BB. That position is nearly impossible to cover even when the D keys on him. So IMO an all around athlete would play that position.

[morris]

We are talking about Veer so the assumption on my part was Veer blocking with the Pull.  The fact is that you are still 2 x 2 using a TE

1(X).............T...G...C...G...T....1(TE).......................
........2(R)............................................2(Y)
.........................Q..H

Now the defense is in a quandry since the TE can release to Veer block and Q can use the Point method.  The OSLB has to honor the TE's release thus making PA possible (a staple of the Veer Passing Game).  You also and correctly (inho) infer that IZ and OZ would be more user friendly for a Typical 2 X 2.  I still go back to the fact that the type of blocking scheme used is, more than likely, because thats how the particular coach learned to block for the option.  Personally speaking its a matter of preference how you block it. 

Tenopir would use IZ and Pin and Pull (OZ).  Frank Lenti at Nt Carmel HS would use Veer Schemes. Neither is right or wrong. 

 

Which direction are you running inverted veer in the above?  Away from the TE?  If not you have to flip the H.

I might be misreading some of the posts here but if not some I think have it a little off.  Teams do hop or skip with the inverted veer.  Some coaches will tell you not to over coach it and let the kids get a feel for it.  When I have taught it we used a point and skip/hop motion to keep the ball slightly in front of the back until we get a give/keep read. 

Where zone read and most read concepts from the gun are cross flow reads this is a full flow read.  You still read the EMLOS but it is a fast horizontal stretch of either go outside fast or get out flanked.  You can block it a bunch of ways but you'll leave that EMLOS unblocked. 

I would also say that using Tebow vs the Pats as evidence you can't just work the double option is a little much.  There are a number of youth, hs and colleges that have done just fine with the double option.  You do have to have ways to protect it. 

[CoachShad]

The diagram was merely to point out its still 2 x 2 with a TE nothing more.    If you look at it the QB is behind the guard!!!  Single Wing deception to boot!!  He He He