buck sweep series

[Bob Goodman]

DC, lots of very interesting stuff in your PDF put up recently.  Please excuse me for not searching this subject thoroughly, but I'm down to a modem cx this weekend, so someone has likely asked you this one in years past (assuming it's not new info).

You say you gave it a good try, but couldn't get the buck sweep series to work with kids.  What went wrong?  Was the problem with the sweep or with the buck or trap?  Was the faking not good enough?  Did the defense penetrate and hit the QB while his back was turned?

I may never coach wing T or your flavor of it, but if I ever did, the buck sweep-waggle series would've looked particularly attractive to me, threatening a quick hit and not requiring a reverse pivot by the QB to open.  Of course I'm sure it was attractive to you too, although maybe for different reasons, so I'm curious about its consistent failure in your hands.  It's intriguing that Ted Seay doesn't have a buck sweep series in his wing T for youth either, although he does have a belly sweep.

[JrTitan]

DC, lots of very interesting stuff in your PDF put up recently.  Please excuse me for not searching this subject thoroughly, but I'm down to a modem cx this weekend, so someone has likely asked you this one in years past (assuming it's not new info).

You say you gave it a good try, but couldn't get the buck sweep series to work with kids.  What went wrong?  Was the problem with the sweep or with the buck or trap?  Was the faking not good enough?  Did the defense penetrate and hit the QB while his back was turned?

I may never coach wing T or your flavor of it, but if I ever did, the buck sweep-waggle series would've looked particularly attractive to me, threatening a quick hit and not requiring a reverse pivot by the QB to open.  Of course I'm sure it was attractive to you too, although maybe for different reasons, so I'm curious about its consistent failure in your hands.  It's intriguing that Ted Seay doesn't have a buck sweep series in his wing T for youth either, although he does have a belly sweep.

I'll let DC respond, but our issue has been getting the backside tackle down feild to block over top of the hole as required in the Deleware version.

[ZACH]

I'll let DC respond, but our issue has been getting the backside tackle down feild to block over top of the hole as required in the Deleware version.

the "touchdown" block is tough...

the bucksweep is effective when youre offense is fast... slow mpps dont help and kill the play

[giantheart]

I think jrtitan is correct...hard to get a slow backside tackle down the field to make the block on the db. In youth ball.. Your lt is usually slow and not very athletic...
Clark mentions it in several archive posts

[ZACH]

Imo

I think dw toss series is more effective then buckseries...

At least at youth

[Bob Goodman]

I'll let DC respond, but our issue has been getting the backside tackle down feild to block over top of the hole as required in the Deleware version.

Huh...I'd've never guessed that block to be such an important feature.  Couldn't you make decent gains without getting that DB blocked?  Are the toss sweeps profferred by DC & Ted Seay less sensitive to downfield blocks by back side OL?

One coach who participates in Delphi's single wing, etc. forum once remarked of so-called "pizza" blocks by back side OL diagrammed on many plays, that in his experience with children it wasn't worthwhile to even attempt them -- that they led more often to penalties for blocking in the back, etc. than to effective blocks.

AFAICT the absence of such blocks is no great loss -- that once you spring a runner into the secondary, their tendency to miss tackles at least makes up for the ineffective blocking.  Is that not true of the plays in the buck sweep series?  How could it be any less true of buck sweep than of the jailbreak QB run DC gives?

[ZACH]

With a name like "touchdown" block it sounds and is pretty important, but you are correct play will have success with "pull check" on bst as opposed to TD block

[Vince148]

My alignment is a little different, but think of GB's power sweep. I pull both guards and the blocking back. My bst is responsible for cutting the man over the bsg. That sweep was our best breakaway play all season with 4 TD runs of 60 or more yards. We used the same blocking scheme for our "jet" sweep as well.

[ZACH]

I would never say bucksweep is actually a sweep, its a power off tackle play, it runs through the edge rather then on it

[coachkev]

DC, lots of very interesting stuff in your PDF put up recently.  Please excuse me for not searching this subject thoroughly, but I'm down to a modem cx this weekend, so someone has likely asked you this one in years past (assuming it's not new info).

You say you gave it a good try, but couldn't get the buck sweep series to work with kids.  What went wrong?  Was the problem with the sweep or with the buck or trap?  Was the faking not good enough?  Did the defense penetrate and hit the QB while his back was turned?

I may never coach wing T or your flavor of it, but if I ever did, the buck sweep-waggle series would've looked particularly attractive to me, threatening a quick hit and not requiring a reverse pivot by the QB to open.  Of course I'm sure it was attractive to you too, although maybe for different reasons, so I'm curious about its consistent failure in your hands.  It's intriguing that Ted Seay doesn't have a buck sweep series in his wing T for youth either, although he does have a belly sweep.

Deleware scheme requires the LT to block playside Corner.  Anyone who can do that consistently is a better coach than me.

 

[ZACH]

Bucksweep has a lot of moving parts, and good speed in those parts... Cant find thst every year

[DumCoach]

I'll let DC respond, but our issue has been getting the backside tackle down feild to block over top of the hole as required in the Deleware version.

Yes.  On the bucksweep at the youth level he ends up unblocked.  I tried to correct by having FB try to make the block off his trap.

[DumCoach]

Huh...I'd've never guessed that block to be such an important feature.  Couldn't you make decent gains without getting that DB blocked?

Nope!  The DB comes in an just kills the runner.  And why not?  Nobody's stopping him.

  Are the toss sweeps profferred by DC & Ted Seay less sensitive to downfield blocks by back side OL?

What kind of "Toss" sweep?  A DW Toss or an "I" formation toss?  Because pulling BS on sweep requires a decent player and decent coaching and a well designed play.

AFAICT the absence of such blocks is no great loss -- that once you spring a runner into the secondary, their tendency to miss tackles at least makes up for the ineffective blocking.

If the defense tends to "miss tackles" they STINK.

  Is that not true of the plays in the buck sweep series?  How could it be any less true of buck sweep than of the jailbreak QB run DC gives?

The LBers/DB's are all blocked on "jailbreak".

[Bob Goodman]

Nope!  The DB comes in an just kills the runner.  And why not?  Nobody's stopping him.

I guess that's why the Packers had a HB pass.

What kind of "Toss" sweep?  A DW Toss or an "I" formation toss?

The one you said you used instead of buck sweep.  Ted Seay labels his a rocket sweep, but from my memory of his diagram it was more like a DW toss (meeting the runner on the back side) than the I formation type toss (meeting the runner on the front side) I usually associate with that term.

If the defense tends to "miss tackles" they STINK.

That's the sort of tacklers I tend to see around here in the secondary.  Some teams have decent tacklers at safety, some at CB, but rarely both.

[davecisar]

My alignment is a little different, but think of GB's power sweep. I pull both guards and the blocking back. My bst is responsible for cutting the man over the bsg. That sweep was our best breakaway play all season with 4 TD runs of 60 or more yards. We used the same blocking scheme for our "jet" sweep as well.

If you pulled the BB, it wouldnt really be a Buck Sweep, split flow play then right?