buck sweep series

[Vince148]

If you pulled the BB, it wouldnt really be a Buck Sweep, split flow play then right?

No, it was not split flow, so technically, not a true bucksweep.

......X.................T...G..C..G...T........Y
........................................B........................Z
...........................H.....Q

I experimented with Z going into deep motion then go to fill the backside A gap on the snap for the pulling guard to get the split, but the kids couldn't get the timing. So I ended up having Y and Z block down, both guards and BB leading the outside and ran it more like the old Packer sweep.

I ran the jet sweep with Z using the same formation and everyone just pulling left, H kicking out DE. The HB sweep right was the much better play, but I think a lot of it was because there was a little more congestion on the jet because of more players coming across the formation. But interestingly enough, I got hold of an Apopka DVD after the season and saw that they ran their jet exactly the same way.

I'm actually playing around with the idea of changing the jet sweep to a Rocket sweep to diminish the congestion in front of the QB and creating a spin series off of that.

[davecisar]

The Wing T teams we play run both the mainstay of most Wing T offenses the Buck Sweep/Trap and lead sweep as well, a few sprinkle in the Jet- but they all run Buck Sweep series as a base/core series

[DumCoach]

I guess that's why the Packers had a HB pass.

You'd think that would be a good play to have in the bucksweep offense too but I've never seen it.

When I couldn't get past the corner I asked the HS coaches at "Bucksweep.com" how they got past him as I had my doubts their weak tackle was blocking that corner.  They agreed he wasn't but just said, like you, the back makes the corner miss. 

That most definitely did not happen for me.  We'd get 2-3 yards and the corner would make the tackle and NEVER miss.  The HS boys suggested it was not a good youth play because at the HS level they could force that corner to play farther back (I faced them at 5 yards).   

I eventually assigned the FB to the corner off running his trap route, better player, better blocker.  But by then I was also not making very many yards off Waggle either - The other big play you're supposed to make yards with.  Meanwhile, the belly was moving the ball.  To be honest, I'm surprised we don't see more belly at the HS level.   

The one you said you used instead of buck sweep.  Ted Seay labels his a rocket sweep, but from my memory of his diagram it was more like a DW toss (meeting the runner on the back side) than the I formation type toss (meeting the runner on the front side)

BS toss=Pull backside G or G&T.

I usually associate with that term.That's the sort of tacklers I tend to see around here in the secondary.  Some teams have decent tacklers at safety, some at CB, but rarely both.

I've seen those types at safety in a 5-2 but the corners here are just OLB's in a 5-4.

[32wedge]

Yes.  On the bucksweep at the youth level he ends up unblocked.  I tried to correct by having FB try to make the block off his trap.

You could move the SE over and have him block the corner or run him off.

[Bob Goodman]

In the meantime I've gone back over all the material I've downloaded from various sources on the wing T, including one discussion of defending against it.  Some systems pointedly avoid the sweep (or sweep-off tackle) of the buck sweep series, although including other plays that are usually part of that series.  Some that include the buck sweep include that troublesome block discussed above by the back side tackle on the CB, others leave it out.  Of those that leave out that block, some at least imply the CB will be taken care of by the play side G, and others just seem to bring about a 1-on-1 between the HB and the CB.

Those that include the block by the back side T mostly diagram it as a stove-pipe path.  With the play side TE & WB blocking down, it looks to me as if the CB would come up quickly.  The defense article says the CB on that side has to watch against a pass, and it is legal for receivers to block in the neutral zone and still go out and catch a pass, but except for one article showing the buck sweep vs. a D line of 6, one of those players will be blocking a LB, so it looks like the CB has all the justif'n in the world to come up to stop the run.  That being the case, not only would that back side T have to pick his way across a broken field, he'd probably have to peel back to make the block because the CB isn't going to stay laying deep.

So I wonder why they have the T stove-pipe around to make that block, instead of following the Gs on a pull path.  Not that I would particularly like his chances that way, being he'd have to move at least as far across as a HB who would then have to hold up a bit for that block while counting on a lot of distraction to the defense by the bootleg and FB threats to avoid getting caught from behind -- but it still looks better for the T than going in front.  Anybody know why they do it that way instead of pulling behind?

Those of you who've tried the buck sweep and lacked that block (either the assignment or its execution), who was the play side G blocking?  An OLB?

Have any of you tried anything to produce misdirection inside in the series while keeping the FB available to block on the sweep or off tackle?  Could the FB trap be turned into a HB trap, or does the hole close too fast for the HB to cut it back there?  How about a delay play, with the FB stepping as to lead on a sweep, then after the QB fakes to the HB, they both turn back together and the FB runs the buck?

Hope DC's tush, or whatever he hit, is feeling better.

[DumCoach]

So I wonder why they have the T stove-pipe around to make that block, instead of following the Gs on a pull path.  Not that I would particularly like his chances that way, being he'd have to move at least as far across as a HB who would then have to hold up a bit for that block while counting on a lot of distraction to the defense by the bootleg and FB threats to avoid getting caught from behind -- but it still looks better for the T than going in front.  Anybody know why they do it that way instead of pulling behind?

I believe the fear is he'll collide with the FB.  He may also run this to pick up a "B" gap blitz.

[giantheart]

So I wonder why they have the T stove-pipe around to make that block, instead of following the Gs on a pull path.  Not that I would particularly like his chances that way, being he'd have to move at least as far across as a HB who would then have to hold up a bit for that block while counting on a lot of distraction to the defense by the bootleg and FB threats to avoid getting caught from behind -- but it still looks better for the T than going in front.  Anybody know why they do it that way instead of pulling behind?

I believe the fear is he'll collide with the FB.  He may also run this to pick up a "B" gap blitz.

 

 I believe in creahans book, he says the Left tackle can take any path he wants to get to the corner or DB and doesn't specify a particular path.

[Vince148]

Well, I look at it this way. Vince Lombardi didn't need a tackle to block in the secondary, so why do I?

[Bob Goodman]

Well, I look at it this way. Vince Lombardi didn't need a tackle to block in the secondary, so why do I?

But he wasn't threatening buck at the same time as sweep (so the FB was available as a blocker) and he kept the threat of the HB pass ready.  They had a trap too, of course, but didn't use the back's buck action on their sweep.

[Illinoisteve]

Although I have not run this series, we are considering it for the fall. 
Not sure why the CB is a problem.  The Bucksweep is the first play in Permian's '93 playbook and has the WB block out on the corner. I assume others were using the WB to instead seal LBs inside, correct?  That would leave the CB unblocked and then that's a problem. 

[GACoachYCarr]

I have run this play out of DWDT successfully.  Slightly different than traditional teams.  I'll post video evidence.