Non-option Wishbone

[CoachBrian]

I'm looking for information on the non-option wishbone, or Y formation.  There does not seem to be a lot of information online about it.  Does anyone here run a variation of this formation?  What plays do you have and how do you handle your blocking assignments?  I'm looking to install this type of offense for a 7-9 year old team.  I have my offense written down with plays described all the way down to each blocking assignment, but now I want to spend the next few weeks analyzing what is good and bad about my plays and getting some ideas from other coaches that have experience running the offense with their plays and assignments.

[CoachCalande]

Build your offense by series for example...

Quick series

dive
double dive
keep out
counter dive
dive pass

muscle series

isolation b gap
isolation off tackle
student body sweeps
sweep option to pass
counter off power action

[ZACH]

Research barta bone

[Zippy]

Coach Brian - we ran (non-option) plays from that formation at that age group:

Wedge
Off Tackle
Cross
Sweep
Sweep Pass (might have been an end around...don't remember for sure)

You can block it many different ways (TKO, SAB, etc.)

FWIW

[bignose]

We ran the Power Bone from 1986 thru 2005. Five Maryland Sate Championships with it. It was much like a Power I only with two tailbacks. We seldom gave the Fb the ball on a dive. He was basically the "third guard".

Our Base offense was:
1) Veer Lead - an Iso with the FB leading a play side HB over the guard. QB would reverse out, much like an I Iso.
2) Blast  Lead- a double lead over guard with FB and play side HB leading thru.
3) Outside Lead- a double lead kicking out the DE-like a DW Power play. TE would double down with the OT.
4) Counter- a split flow play where we kicked out the DT with a guard and crossed the two HBs. FB filled for pulling guard
5) Sweep - a Power Sweep with a double lead

We used a good bit of motion with the HB's and several formation variations.
Our blocking rule was IHOP (Inside gap, head up).

[durfee4]

We ran the Power Bone from 1986 thru 2005. Five Maryland Sate Championships with it. It was much like a Power I only with two tailbacks. We seldom gave the Fb the ball on a dive. He was basically the "third guard".

Our Base offense was:
1) Veer Lead - an Iso with the FB leading a play side HB over the guard. QB would reverse out, much like an I Iso.
2) Blast  Lead- a double lead over guard with FB and play side HB leading thru.
3) Outside Lead- a double lead kicking out the DE-like a DW Power play. TE would double down with the OT.
4) Counter- a split flow play where we kicked out the DT with a guard and crossed the two HBs. FB filled for pulling guard
5) Sweep - a Power Sweep with a double lead

We used a good bit of motion with the HB's and several formation variations.
Our blocking rule was IHOP (Inside gap, head up).

Coach what blocking schemes would adapt to your bone?Thanks

[bignose]

As posted above, IHOP. Inside gap, head up.
We used a lot of combo blocks as well. I.E. you two have those two.
In some respects we used some zone oriented scheme, some inside gap blocking and base blocking. Our Iso type play was actually base blocked, rather than double team and lead thru. That is why we called them "Leads"

We moved on to the DW in 2006 when our HBs started going from 180-190 to 145-165 consistently. They became much more effective lead blocking from the wing position, than they did from a HB position behind the guards.

[CoachBrian]

We ran the Power Bone from 1986 thru 2005. Five Maryland Sate Championships with it. It was much like a Power I only with two tailbacks. We seldom gave the Fb the ball on a dive. He was basically the "third guard".

Our Base offense was:
1) Veer Lead - an Iso with the FB leading a play side HB over the guard. QB would reverse out, much like an I Iso.
2) Blast  Lead- a double lead over guard with FB and play side HB leading thru.
3) Outside Lead- a double lead kicking out the DE-like a DW Power play. TE would double down with the OT.
4) Counter- a split flow play where we kicked out the DT with a guard and crossed the two HBs. FB filled for pulling guard
5) Sweep - a Power Sweep with a double lead

We used a good bit of motion with the HB's and several formation variations.
Our blocking rule was IHOP (Inside gap, head up).

Wow, this is very, very close to what I have currently planned to do.  I plan on doing double-team blocks by the offensive line at the point of attack.  My fullback is basically just a decoy and won't get the hand offs, but I do have a nice setup play to throw a pass to him after setting it up with a lead off-tackle and lead sweep play being run several times first.  How did this offense do for you?  Did you find that it was harder to score quickly near the end of a game because this is more of a ball control offense, or did the mis-direction plays get huge chunks of yards for you?

[durfee4]

Big knows his O,go to Calandes war room and read some of his post and reply,s, he,s help me and many others.What U call a gurue.

[bignose]

Like I wrote in my earlier post, we ran this as primary ball control type of offense.

We won 5 Maryland Sate Championships with this offense from the early 1990s thru 1997. We won another State Championship in 2010 running the Calande style DW.

But much as we have done with our DW, we had the ability to use multiple formations and motions that we could use when we needed to throw the ball (which wasn't real often).
We used the Bone formation as a base, but we also ran some Twins, Pro and End Over looks while keeping the core plays the same. We could also motion to these formations using either HBs to quickly unbalance the formation. We almost always used one split end.

While we did have success with our counter play, our best results were from the Veer Lead (over Guard), and the Outside Lead (power off tackle). Real smash mouth, in your face offense.
We seldom used double team blocks, most of our blocking was base and combo. We trapped on the counter.
While we did occasionally run Dive with the FB, we used him mostly as a lead blocker, hence the term third guard. We did not run any triple option. The only option we ran (very occasionally) was from a Veer Lead fake, and the offside HB ran the pitch route.

I'll be at the Glazier clinic in Baltimore, all day Friday and Saturday. We are doing a presentation on our DW program all day Friday.

A great reference is "Winning Football with the Multiple Wishbone"  by Glenn Carson. This is very reasonably priced thru BookFinder.com

[Michael]

I ran it with 5-7 two years ago.

Fullback dive, halfback sweep, quarterback bootleg.

We always faced defenses with one high.

I defined the box as everyone but the two defenders closest to the sideline on each side, and the safety.

We always went two tight.

Front seven always got the six in the box.  I gave them their assignments after they lined up, since we could have coaches on the field.  I used my practice time on O-Line fundamentals rather than scheme.

On the dive, the FB popped through as quickly as possible.  It wasn't a power play.  We got a ton of long runs off it.  Drilled the hand-off like crazy using the QB tee.

On the HB sweep, the lead halfback took the Wide 9 (DE/LB).  FB basically skip pulled to replace him and then got the corner.  QB had the backside Wide 9.

On the bootleg, QB used a reverse pivot to let the blockers get out ahead of him, but still got going very quickly.  Lead HB went Wide 9, trailing HB went CB, and the FB shot through like it was a dive, but with no ball fake.

At least that's what I think I did.  I might have done it slightly differently, and the above is what I would have used if I'd had that group the following year.  Hard to remember at this point.


All worked great.

Only block you have to hold very long is the playside TE when you go outside,

[dalasbob]

I think somebody on this site had a non option Wishbone playbook on here. I think t was KFMagee or something. He runs a lot of wishbone. try looking him and his playbook up.

[FlynnStones]

Coach Big we have run counter as you describe it "perfect"... A team I helped coach where I  ran offense was Power-T oriented.  We ran almost similar stuff you ran in Bone.  We had a "colored" call just for Te (Double-Teaming)

Dive,Lead,counter-dive,power,sweep,trap(as u describe)and pitch-out.  We ran pass with both Te running a lot of Posts/Outs combo with play-action of Powers, Leads and Counter.
We we're very successful with Power T type plays, but very similar to your Wishbone.

Great Post ! Thanks for your time.

[durfee4]

I'm looking for information on the non-option wishbone, or Y formation.  There does not seem to be a lot of information online about it.  Does anyone here run a variation of this formation?  What plays do you have and how do you handle your blocking assignments?  I'm looking to install this type of offense for a 7-9 year old team.  I have my offense written down with plays described all the way down to each blocking assignment, but now I want to spend the next few weeks analyzing what is good and bad about my plays and getting some ideas from other coaches that have experience running the offense with their plays and assignments.

Coach ever think of running the power-t?

[CoachBrian]

Coach ever think of running the power-t?

Yes I was first considering that, but decided to go with the wishbone because I could move a back up closer with the bone.  I don't really run the ball to the fullback, but use him more as a 3rd guard if you will to block, so I liked the idea of having him closer to the LOS.  I also know that no one in our league runs the wishbone.  While no one runs the T exclusively, there is one team that will go into the T at least a handful of times a game.

The last reason for deciding on wishbone is personnel on the team.  I could run wishbone with basically two running backs and an offensive lineman at fullback, meaning he doesn't have to be a good running back and should be a good blocker.  I have just two returning running backs from last year and will only have about 5 or 6 new kids, so I will likely be limited with the number of running backs on the team.

Unfortunately the main players I am losing from this past season are running backs and quarterbacks with just one offensive lineman.   Our league is a draft type of league for any kids that did not play the year before.  Since I will only have a handful of picks in the draft I will likely only get the option to draft a couple of good players.  The way they do the draft, if you need more players you get more draft picks early on then teams that only need a few players.  I don't really agree with it, but that's life.