Dumcoach Youth Football Forum

Custom Systems => Coach Wilkins Systems ( Dumcoach ) => DC Wing T Offense => Topic started by: jgg1970 on August 08, 2018, 04:28:02 PM

Title: 23/24
Post by: jgg1970 on August 08, 2018, 04:28:02 PM
If I am not going to run option as I don't have the QB(but am running 38 power toss/47 Toss) there is no point in:

having the HB run a pitch route going right on 24 or the WB running the pitch going left on 23, correct? or have I confused myself?
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: ZACH on August 08, 2018, 04:43:03 PM
Carry out wha ever fake you want to complete your series...option fake, toss fake...pass fake...whatever...
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: TigerMOJO on August 08, 2018, 08:10:00 PM
Yes there is pointS. \

Keep the Defense Honest and on their heels. In this offense because of the those actions the Def 2nd level has to wait to react because it looks like they have an AT Read and Outside Read in same play....READ THEM...

Makes a wide DE/LB have to slow play also. He has 2 choices....Squeeze or Contain....READ HIM ALL GAME and Make him wrong as much as possible! IMO that is one of the biggest keys to running this Offense if not the Biggest. And a lot more O's.
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: Majortom on August 08, 2018, 09:08:12 PM
If I am not going to run option as I don't have the QB(but am running 38 power toss/47 Toss) there is no point in:

having the HB run a pitch route going right on 24 or the WB running the pitch going left on 23, correct? or have I confused myself?
Your other plan could be to make the offense more like an Offset I with the HB now more of a blocking FB type and Lead and move around to get in position to block. I do that a little but only because I am coaching 7-9 yr olds. Couple years ago the HC I was with would almost always go HBover or backs over to run 24/26 to get that extra blocker inside. In his defense the team did not have a true HB or WB type kid.
It worked for him for the most part.
Tom
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: jgg1970 on August 08, 2018, 10:12:46 PM
Yes there is pointS. \

Keep the Defense Honest and on their heels. In this offense because of the those actions the Def 2nd level has to wait to react because it looks like they have an AT Read and Outside Read in same play....READ THEM...



After you’ve been scouted is there a tendency of the Will to move right towards the 4/6 hole on 24 if his coach tells him to key the HB for interior plays? Likewise the Mike going left on 23 if he is told to key the WB motioning deeper rather than flat to the 6 hole? Or does that just not happen in y’alls experience?

I plan for the QB to carry out the roll out pass fake on 23/24.
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: TigerMOJO on August 08, 2018, 10:58:39 PM
Will still has to sit til our 3rd step before he can react or he may chose wrong. If they put only Will to take care of my FB and DE for outside and if my FB can't pick a shoulder or stiff arm the Will for 3-4 yads I'm finding a different FB. I want a FB that one [layer can't tackle alone. But HB Slot chould take care of Will sitting in 4 hole. Or Run 25 Power and now we kicking DE leading on Will and lets see what we get. IJS this O has an answer for almost everything. Now kids just have to run it correctly.
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: DumCoach on August 09, 2018, 02:18:00 AM
"Pass Right Zero Open" will force coverage on the HB on "24".
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: ZACH on August 09, 2018, 08:50:21 AM
If I am not going to run option as I don't have the QB(but am running 38 power toss/47 Toss) there is no point in:

having the HB run a pitch route going right on 24 or the WB running the pitch going left on 23, correct? or have I confused myself?

This is the only way i can think to explain this.. power t... just watcgh the clip... tell me if it clicks

https://youtu.be/uq7ATf6mVEY
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: joshv155 on August 09, 2018, 10:15:28 AM
If I am not going to run option as I don't have the QB(but am running 38 power toss/47 Toss) there is no point in:

having the HB run a pitch route going right on 24 or the WB running the pitch going left on 23, correct? or have I confused myself?

23 = base action for your WB is same as 24. Track blocking through the TE nasty split looking DT to LB. If you orbit him when you run 23 it’s a tell. Track blocking going right, orbit motion going left.

You can do lots of things with the WB. Move him to the weak side and see if it pulls out a defender to make running 23 easier. Jet him across and see anyone follows. If they don’t run jet pass or 56 power screen. If they do run wherever they moved the player following the WB. If it was the corner and you don’t run option run 16 sweep, 36 sweep, slot over pass right. HB runs the WB’s route from the slot, TE normal route....one of them is wide open after that corner vacated.

Just a few ideas.
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: coachmiket on August 09, 2018, 12:22:28 PM
If I am not going to run option as I don't have the QB(but am running 38 power toss/47 Toss) there is no point in:

having the HB run a pitch route going right on 24 or the WB running the pitch going left on 23, correct? or have I confused myself?

What are the reasons that you "don't have the QB"?
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: jgg1970 on August 09, 2018, 04:43:07 PM
23 = base action for your WB is same as 24. Track blocking through the TE nasty split looking DT to LB. If you orbit him when you run 23 it’s a tell. Track blocking going right, orbit motion going left.

that was I thought as well and was my concern with the diagram at the bottom of the page

Quote
You can do lots of things with the WB. Move him to the weak side and see if it pulls out a defender to make running 23 easier. Jet him across and see anyone follows. If they don’t run jet pass or 56 power screen. If they do run wherever they moved the player following the WB. If it was the corner and you don’t run option run 16 sweep, 36 sweep, slot over pass right. HB runs the WB’s route from the slot, TE normal route....one of them is wide open after that corner vacated.

Just a few ideas.

Thx



Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: jgg1970 on August 09, 2018, 04:50:25 PM
"Pass Right Zero Open" will force coverage on the HB on "24".

I can see that!
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: jgg1970 on August 09, 2018, 04:54:22 PM
This is the only way i can think to explain this.. power t... just watcgh the clip... tell me if it clicks

https://youtu.be/uq7ATf6mVEY

I apparently have got the football dumbz coach(or have too much on my mind trying to manage coaches and find a freaking level field to practice on). What am I missing other then the deception?
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: ZACH on August 09, 2018, 04:56:57 PM
I apparently have got the football dumbz coach(or have too much on my mind trying to manage coaches and find a freaking level field to practice on). What am I missing other then the deception?

Deception is everything, kind of a big deal in most T variants and attacks with series based play calling

1 good fake is worth 2 blocks

Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: headtrip on August 09, 2018, 10:32:48 PM
A lot of the point of DCWT is that each play (to a side) starts out looking like all the other plays to that side. If you're picking up good yards on 24, when you finally run 36/38 it's gonna go, mainly because the defense thinks they're getting 24 again.

I wish i had good film of it, but i've played a couple teams that we just hammered them with 23 and 24. Eventually nearly all 11 players are in the tackle box. That's when we run toss. The defense thinks they're getting 23/24 and we reel off a big gain.


My take on it anyway
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: jgg1970 on August 10, 2018, 12:29:21 AM


I wish i had good film of it, but i've played a couple teams that we just hammered them with 23 and 24. Eventually nearly all 11 players are in the tackle box. That's when we run toss. The defense thinks they're getting 23/24 and we reel off a big gain.


My take on it anyway

That is definitely what I am aiming for. My FB is a bowling ball of sinew and muscle. Going to train him by the book.

We installed 38 Power Toss tonight, HB is greased lightning with decent size. Excited.

Having some trouble timing up 47 Speed with two QB's, both pretty small for their grade.
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: jgg1970 on August 10, 2018, 12:49:01 AM
What are the reasons that you "don't have the QB"?

I started with am incredible passing QB who could have run the option, though underweight and prone to ankle sprains. His private school opened up middle school FB for 6th grade so we lost him.  :o

My next two best choices that I chose for QB are veteran players, know the game, are intelligent and can throw at least 15 yards to an given area on the field. They are small for 6th graders, middle to top third of the pack in speed so I don't think thet would be much of a threat on the keep.  I can just see them getting crushed in our league knowing the size and speed of my opponents and with it our season down the toilet. They'll serve well enough to hand the ball off, toss the ball and make short passes. Maybe gain a few on QB wedge sweep.

I do have one very durable FB, one textbook WB and one textbook HB and want to keep those there. The rest of the team are a mix of veteran and rookie lineman prototypes, quickest and tallest being my TE and brand new to football. Thought about him as QB but chose to go with my veterans.
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: SnapIt on February 18, 2019, 12:26:50 AM
Just wondered how your 24 worked this year?   I’m looking to run this next year but wasn’t planning on running 38 option.    I too am afraid that the D will just crash down and not respect outside threat.   Thanks
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: joshv155 on February 28, 2019, 10:07:45 AM
Just wondered how your 24 worked this year?   I’m looking to run this next year but wasn’t planning on running 38 option.    I too am afraid that the D will just crash down and not respect outside threat.   Thanks

Planning on running this one play or the entire offense to include this play ? 23/24 are non-negotiable plays to run, and run well, if you want to run this offense. You don't have to run 38 option, most run 38 power toss instead of the option to get outside to the right.
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: SnapIt on March 03, 2019, 02:21:54 PM
Thanks for responding.    I am  planning to run the entire offense with 5th graders - just not the option portion. 

If I’m following correctly then it sounds like many coaches when running 24 have their HB and QB run the 38 toss action rather that the option relationship.    Pound 24 until D starts to cheat and then burn them with the 38 toss.   Makes sense.

Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: Monster on March 04, 2019, 12:47:41 PM
Thanks for responding.    I am  planning to run the entire offense with 5th graders - just not the option portion. 

If I’m following correctly then it sounds like many coaches when running 24 have their HB and QB run the 38 toss action rather that the option relationship.    Pound 24 until D starts to cheat and then burn them with the 38 toss.   Makes sense.

-You want to score in 5 plays
-Fit the formation to the field
-23/24 is the basis of series play calling, use it to set up plays remember to score in 5 plays.
-pass every 5 plays

The first 60 pages of the manual are most important more so than the play diagrams.

One thing that I would recommend, and to me, this fits the philosophy of the Offense. At least, my perception of the Offense.

When you run 24, make every Ball Handler in that play a threat. Make them look for 24, but then have them worry about Right 17... and 36 ... and Right 45 Counter... and Right 65 Kick

Then when you run 23, make them worry about Left 32 Counter... and 47-56 Reverse...

You get the idea.

Not that you want to overload your players with a bunch of plays, but once you get the base backfield movement down, now you are just changing the handoff point.


Just my two cents.
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: ZACH on March 04, 2019, 02:31:54 PM
Thanks for responding.    I am  planning to run the entire offense with 5th graders - just not the option portion. 

If I’m following correctly then it sounds like many coaches when running 24 have their HB and QB run the 38 toss action rather that the option relationship.    Pound 24 until D starts to cheat and then burn them with the 38 toss.   Makes sense.

Im sry i modified your post by accident, i meant to qoute it. My fault

-You want to score in 5 plays
-Fit the formation to the field
-23/24 is the basis of series play calling, use it to set up plays remember to score in 5 plays.
-pass every 5 plays

The first 60 pages of the manual are most important more so than the play diagrams.
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: SnapIt on March 04, 2019, 11:07:41 PM
By “fit the formation to the field” I’m assuming you mean put the TE and WB into the boundary when on a hash to ensure enough open space to run 47?   
Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: ZACH on March 05, 2019, 08:59:34 AM
By “fit the formation to the field” I’m assuming you mean put the TE and WB into the boundary when on a hash to ensure enough open space to run 47?   

Yes, i just used ends over instead of flip for ease of use. Running 47 and 48 are 2 different animals from experience.

I dont like jet, but yea you got the idea.

Title: Re: 23/24
Post by: joshv155 on March 13, 2019, 02:40:50 AM
Don’t over think it. I did for years. If you aren’t running option every other time you run 24 run it from HB over. Get another blocker at the point of attack. Teams/coaches won’t pick up on it at that age.