Author Topic: SIMPLE GUN  (Read 22791 times)

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Offline Ronin

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2014, 10:06:18 AM »
Not sure this qualifies as SIMPLE GUN, but have you seen/considered the Power Wing formation?  I found a thread on DC regarding it.  I found a playbook online a while back.  Basically, the TE is snapping the ball, but not snapping between his legs.  I like to incorporate a gimmicky play for the kids that adds some extra fun factor and this one sounds perfect.  I am considering implementing it next year.  Here is an older thread:

http://www.dumcoach.com/classic/viewthread.php?tid=429

Thoughts...?

Offline RJGiants75

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2014, 10:21:59 AM »
JJ,

Was there this ever put into print or is there an addendum to the SDW showing it out of the gun? I didn't realize that you had a version where you ran the Simple Double Wing out of the gun.

Rob

Offline jrk5150

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2014, 04:51:38 PM »
Well, I just finished a 7-1 season where we were probably 90% or more in gun.  We did not lose a single shotgun snap to the other team - we had 2-3 all year that were outright fumbled, and I'll hang those on the QB.  We had some poor snaps that were low, and some lollipop looking snaps that were way too slow getting back there, but not a single whiffed snap or one fired over the head of the QB in a game.  We actually bobbled more snaps under center than in gun, but that was because our centers were picked for their shotgun snapping, not their "regular" snapping, and my QB's had never played QB before.  I only went under center because we couldn't get the shorter wedge snap down, so to run wedge we had to.  Since it would be a pretty big tell to do that ONLY when running wedge, we went under center about double the number of times I wanted to run wedge.

And I stayed consistent with my reasoning in this thread - I did it because I had no obvious QB, the kid best suited was BY FAR my best runner.  And my back up was my second best runner.

I will also note - I had a hard time involving more than 2 backs consistently from Gun.  I had a QB and a HB, they got most of the carries.  The WB got some, but not a ton.  If we were better at blocking he'd have gotten more.  The FB got zero carries from Gun.

Next year, if I end up back with the same team, I believe I'll have a couple of kids that I can put under center, so I'll likely go back to something like that.

I was VERY happy with how we did this year - but we had a center who was money on his snaps.  Big time sucked as a blocker (didn't get run over at least), but was really clutch snapping.


Offline CoachJJ

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2014, 04:12:48 PM »
Still dont have the GUN stuff in print yet ... lots of drawings on my ipad but not a finished product yet guys ...

I have decided that there will be TWO different playbooks when I finish ... one that is more of an addendum to the SDW playbook but most guys wont really need that as it just involves moving the QB back in the gun ...

The second is how I want to run my DWGun from here forward ... it involves losing the full time blocking back / fullback position and the offense really spreads the ball between all 4 backs by doing this ... that is the playbook I am spending most of my time on as it is 'different' ... I believe everyone will really like what I am working on ... I know I do ...
Coach JJ
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Offline Coach_O

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2014, 05:31:37 PM »
Still dont have the GUN stuff in print yet ... lots of drawings on my ipad but not a finished product yet guys ...

I have decided that there will be TWO different playbooks when I finish ... one that is more of an addendum to the SDW playbook but most guys wont really need that as it just involves moving the QB back in the gun ...

The second is how I want to run my DWGun from here forward ... it involves losing the full time blocking back / fullback position and the offense really spreads the ball between all 4 backs by doing this ... that is the playbook I am spending most of my time on as it is 'different' ... I believe everyone will really like what I am working on ... I know I do ...

So are the two qb side by side and pending on which way the play goes . One or the other is the kick out block?


----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
-W------------------W
----------1-2

?

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2014, 03:20:59 PM »
----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
-W------------------W
----------1-2
That's a standard form of double wing formation used over a long period of time.  I saw it most recently on video out of a Missouri HS varsity linked from here, state championship playoffs.  There's YouTube of a full game of Texas A&M U. using it about 75 yrs. ago.

If you're willing to treat the 1 & 2 backs as equivalent positions, mirror images, there's a lot of ways you can proceed, especially if you snap the ball down the middle (which allows C to do it blind).

Offline CoachJJ

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2014, 01:14:33 PM »
So are the two qb side by side and pending on which way the play goes . One or the other is the kick out block?


----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
-W------------------W
----------1-2

?

ALPHA
----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
-H-------------------W
-------F---Q

BRAVO
----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
-H-------------------W
------------Q---F

CHARLIE
----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
-H--------------F----W
------------Q

DELTA
----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
-H----F--------------W
------------Q

That is the plan for the Fullback ...

But we will also move the Halfback around a fair amount as well ...

----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
--2------------------W
------------Q---F

----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
--------------4------W
------------Q---F

----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
---------------------W------6
------------Q---F


----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
--------------H------W
-------F----Q


----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
---------------------W------H
-------F----Q


----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
--------------H-F----W
------------Q


----E-T-G-C-G-T-E
-----------------F---W------H
------------Q


And we will probably even move the Wingback around a little as well ... but not as much as the H & F ...
As it stands:
The system has at least 4 alignments for the Fullback (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie & Delta) ...
The system has at least 3 alignments for the Halfback (2, 4 & 6) ...
The system has another 3 alignments for the Wingback (1, 3 & 5) ...

Then I have a few TAGs built in with State Calls (Hawaii, Wyoming, Oregon, Utah) ...
HA - Halfback On
WY - Wingback On
OR - Over
UT - Under

So we will call BRAVO 25 OREGON

----E-G-C-G-T-T-E
--H-----------------W
---------Q----F

Or we can call ALPHA 45 WYOMING

----E-T-G-C-G-T-T-E-W
--------------H
------F----Q

The first call probably has the QB or HB carrying the ball on POWER ...
The second call probably has the FB carrying on POWER with the QB booting away ...

But make no mistake we are running mostly POWER, BLAST, TRAP & SWEEP (with some XX of course) ...
Coach JJ
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"Football may be the best-taught subject in American High Schools because it may be the only subject that we haven't tried to make easy."

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Offline RJGiants75

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2014, 02:54:30 PM »
Slightly off topic but is there any DW systems that only pulls one lineman? When we were in the "Double" formation in UBSW, I always thought if we had two wings all the time, they wouldn't really know which way we were running.

I like the idea of something like a direct snap Cisar UBSW with the 2 backs side to side and two wings with 1 pulling lineman. Not sure if there is such a thing in a true DW. Seems like there is multiple pullers & mostly UTC in the ones that I have seen. 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 02:56:23 PM by RJGiants75 »

Offline Coach_O

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2014, 06:36:09 PM »
I only pull backside guard on powers. On counters we pull bsg if In shotgun as the full back leads, when utc we still pull g and t on counters. For sweeps,  we pull playtime g and t but have just pulled playside g.

You really only want to pull guards. Go shotgun, use your runners at wings and qb. Fb  just runs wedge and is a lead or lockout.

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2014, 11:11:05 AM »
Slightly off topic but is there any DW systems that only pulls one lineman? When we were in the "Double" formation in UBSW, I always thought if we had two wings all the time, they wouldn't really know which way we were running.

I like the idea of something like a direct snap Cisar UBSW with the 2 backs side to side and two wings with 1 pulling lineman. Not sure if there is such a thing in a true DW. Seems like there is multiple pullers & mostly UTC in the ones that I have seen.
Some single wing coaches call it "blocking back over".  I forgot what Dave Cisar calls that formation in his system, but he still has only the strong side G pull.  I'm not sure whether you'd count that as "a true DW" any more than your Double would be, though.  Do you mean it counts only if both wings can orbit motion?  Adam Wesoloski's is like that, but the deep backs aren't side by side.

Or do you just mean "only pulls one lineman" at a time?  Lots of old-style double wing pulls one guard (back side) at a time, but either guard in the formation has the ability to pull.

Offline Coach_O

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2014, 11:17:29 AM »
Bob, to be clear we mean Markham styke double wing. Stick to the core Power, wedge, trap, counter and sweep. We aren't talking about nothing else that may have to wings. The Double Wing is an offense not a formation. The DW can and is ran from different  formations.

Offline jrk5150

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2014, 11:47:58 AM »
Coach Cox has built his offenses around pulling just the G.

I have been pulling one only for a few years now.  Usually the puller is a G, this year it was a T, for a variety of reasons.  I flip my line, so really I just pull one kid.  I did start pulling a guy from the strong side to run trap and a sweep, but that was late in the season.

Offline Coach_O

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2014, 02:21:40 PM »
Coach Cox has built his offenses around pulling just the G.

I have been pulling one only for a few years now.  Usually the puller is a G, this year it was a T, for a variety of reasons.  I flip my line, so really I just pull one kid.  I did start pulling a guy from the strong side to run trap and a sweep, but that was late in the season.

What does your one guy pulling do on Counter?

If he kicks out who leads, if he leads who kicks out?

Offline mahonz

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2014, 02:33:19 PM »
Curious....

What advantages to you really get by going gun? Its seems that it would takeaway from the core.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline Dimson

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2014, 03:13:12 PM »
Curious....

What advantages to you really get by going gun? Its seems that it would takeaway from the core.
You should check out Coach Cox's Power Pistol, it doesn't take away from the core at all.