Author Topic: SIMPLE GUN  (Read 22931 times)

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Offline dan82564

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #75 on: December 30, 2014, 03:58:02 PM »
Ive seen many teams running DW that pull both G and T and many that just pull G. They are still called DW. I don't recall seeing any SW playbooks that pull both G and T though. I guess for me DW means 2 wings, if I ran a  Dbl T power I and pulled both backside lineman I wouldn't consider that to be DW.

My original post was to better understand the difference between SGDW and SW. I should add difference between SGDW and SW with a balanced line.

I ran this formation in our championship game-

           O O
O       O
   O O O C O O O

SGDW or Balanced SW??

Dan


Offline jrk5150

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #76 on: December 30, 2014, 04:29:30 PM »
Who cares what it's called?

The name of the system is there to give us a reference point for discussion so we can more easily grasp some larger concepts that are consistent within that system.  The actual name of the system is relatively irrelevant. Yes, it gets confusing when you use a "system" formation without the system, or apply the system to another formation.

But ultimately, who really gives a rat's ass what it's called?

I know a lot about the DW as it relates to youth football.  I have run the DW largely "by the book" in the past.  My terminology and philosophies stem from the DW as I continue to grow and develop what I do in ways that aren't "pure" DW, but it is still easier for me to call it DW when I'm talking to other coaches that know DW.  That's where my troubleshooting comes from, my ideas, my support, etc.  It's really not important to me what someone else calls my offense.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 04:31:28 PM by jrk5150 »

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #77 on: December 30, 2014, 10:24:00 PM »
Who cares what it's called?
Usually people who want to look up material on it, maybe to prepare against an opponent that uses it.

Offline cbrm

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #78 on: December 30, 2014, 11:55:59 PM »
I use concepts from both SW and DW, and I study both.   I'm always interested to learn how coaches apply different concepts to fit their style, personnel, etc.  I'm equally interested to learn as much as possible from the purists, and how they adapt to defenses which become better prepared for them over time.  I applaud the time and effort individuals on this forum put into developing their own systems.

As for my earlier comment about cracking up when people think SW or DW are only formations.... I in no way meant that in a condescending way.  I laugh mostly because I was THAT person only a few short years ago.  Because of this forum and its contributors who go far beyond DUMCOACH.COM with materials of their own, I have become a better coach.

I got access to the following clips at last year's SW Conclave.  Thankfully, someone from their organization also put it up on YouTube, so I can share the link with you.  Looks like a mixture of concepts to me. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDbuqaLZ16E&spfreload=10

Enjoy.
Brian
Do right by Him, and you'll do right by them.

Offline CoachJJ

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #79 on: December 31, 2014, 02:34:11 AM »
Who cares what it's called?

The name of the system is there to give us a reference point for discussion so we can more easily grasp some larger concepts that are consistent within that system.  The actual name of the system is relatively irrelevant. Yes, it gets confusing when you use a "system" formation without the system, or apply the system to another formation.

But ultimately, who really gives a rat's ass what it's called?

For me it is important to use correct 'reference points' so that the names continue to mean what they are supposed to mean ... If left unchecked the misnaming of something ends up changing the name by default ...

If only someone had corrected the explorers who first came to America and called the Native Americans ... INDIANS ... I know that is an example from a totally unrelated subject ... but at 1:30 am it was the first one to come to mind ... Incorrect labels when said often enough without being corrected tend to become fact ... and of course when labels mean everything then they really mean NOTHING ... like SPREAD Offense ...lol

Please don't allow our beloved Wing Offenses to become like the SPREAD !!!
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Offline jrk5150

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #80 on: December 31, 2014, 12:24:53 PM »
For me it is important to use correct 'reference points' so that the names continue to mean what they are supposed to mean ... If left unchecked the misnaming of something ends up changing the name by default ...

If only someone had corrected the explorers who first came to America and called the Native Americans ... INDIANS ... I know that is an example from a totally unrelated subject ... but at 1:30 am it was the first one to come to mind ... Incorrect labels when said often enough without being corrected tend to become fact ... and of course when labels mean everything then they really mean NOTHING ... like SPREAD Offense ...lol

Please don't allow our beloved Wing Offenses to become like the SPREAD !!!

That's kind of my point - we call it DW because that label has meaning within the context of the system.  But really, it could be called something else.  It started out called the DW because of the formation, and some people seem to get bent out of shape when you leave the formation.  The formation is not the system, but it did lend it its name.

I'm just saying, don't get hung up on semantics of whether Murphy is running DW or SW based on how it looks.  He's running his DW because of what he's doing and how he's doing it, doesn't really matter what the formation is or even what it's called...

Offline Bob Goodman

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #81 on: December 31, 2014, 07:32:07 PM »
For me it is important to use correct 'reference points' so that the names continue to mean what they are supposed to mean ... If left unchecked the misnaming of something ends up changing the name by default ...
That's happened over & over in football.  You now have fullbacks in front of halfbacks, quarterbacks deeper than either of them, and tailbacks in front of or at least level with other backs.

Offline Test Account

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #82 on: December 31, 2014, 09:05:46 PM »
I'm just saying, don't get hung up on semantics of whether Murphy is running DW or SW based on how it looks.  He's running his DW because of what he's doing and how he's doing it, doesn't really matter what the formation is or even what it's called...
And despite all of the "modern advances" there is a great chance it has all been done before.
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Offline CoachSugg

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Re: SIMPLE GUN
« Reply #83 on: January 30, 2019, 10:20:27 AM »
I know JJ hasn't been active much.  But many of you are familiar with this system.

Going back to the gun idea.

I think you could run almost all of JJ's base play package out of the Gun. Using JJ's original option #2.  QB in gun 3-4 yards back, HB align equal depth or slightly back and directly behind the QE (ala Murphy).

Only difference is the QB takes the FB place in run plays other than Wedge (we'd direct snap to FB)
Toss
Toss (QB) Cut
Toss Reverse
Toss Sweep
Toss Pass
Quick Wedge
Quick Sweep
Quick XX
Quick QB Dive
Quick QB Trap

Blocking stays the same, simple teach, but provides a different look.  Thinking for 8-9 year olds.

We'd install and make sure Brown/Black is steady, before adding the gun portion Grey/Gold.  For us it'd still be just 9 plays, but ran from 2 formations that flip.
Kent Sugg
Bridge Creek, OK