Author Topic: zone blocking and RB depth  (Read 3454 times)

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Offline Vince148

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zone blocking and RB depth
« on: June 08, 2014, 08:10:12 AM »
How important is RB depth to a zone scheme? Does RB depth even matter? In pro style, the RB depth is about 6-7 yards deep. However, Nebraska's "I" from years ago had FB dives that were zone blocked like IZ. It seems from the old Redskin videos I've seen that Riggins was at a basic RB depth of 3-4 yards. Could a wing-t HB run a stretch OZ play from his usual depth? What would be some of the adjustments that would have to be made in terms of QB/RB mesh and timing to use zone blocking with RBs that are only lined up 3-4 yards deep?

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: zone blocking and RB depth
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2014, 09:33:10 AM »
How important is RB depth to a zone scheme? Does RB depth even matter? In pro style, the RB depth is about 6-7 yards deep. However, Nebraska's "I" from years ago had FB dives that were zone blocked like IZ. It seems from the old Redskin videos I've seen that Riggins was at a basic RB depth of 3-4 yards. Could a wing-t HB run a stretch OZ play from his usual depth? What would be some of the adjustments that would have to be made in terms of QB/RB mesh and timing to use zone blocking with RBs that are only lined up 3-4 yards deep?

GOOD QUESTION (I would suggest toes at 6 1/2 to 7 yards if you are just starting out):  QB/RB "mesh points" did NOT change.  You can find my discussion of this on the dumcoach PRO-STYLE thread under "Inside Zone Clinic" (attachments in reply #8 on page 1), & "Outside Zone Clinic" (attachments on first post on page 1) - CHECK THEM OUT!

#1 = John Riggins' was in a THREE POINT STANCE with his HEELS always 5 1/2 yards from the ball (he had previously been an "I" formation Fullback, & this is what he was "USED to").   After Riggins - the Redskins deepened their Running Backs and employed a TWO POINT STANCE with TOES at 6 1/2 (for Ernest Byner, ETC).  When Clinton Portis joined the Redskins in 2004 they had him in a 2 point stance at 7 1/2 yards because that is where Alex Gibbs had him in Denver (& it was what he was "USED to").
NOTE:  I spent a LOT of time on the field with the Redskins WATCHING them coach RB's from 1981 to 1993, & from 2004 to 2007.  This is EXACTLY what they did.

#2 = Terrell Davis' was in a 2 point stance with the Alex Gibbs & the Broncos at a depth of 7 1/2 yards.

Riggins (IZ) & Davis (OZ) are the two best ZONE RUNNING BACKS I ever saw.  Not so much because of ability, which they HAD,  as much as having a "feel" for running the ZONE plays - behind O-Lines that EXECUTED the scheme WELL.  A RB that doesn't HAVE that "feel" can screw up the blocks of the BEST line.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 11:07:18 AM by billmountjoy »
My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com

Offline ZACH

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Re: zone blocking and RB depth
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2014, 01:08:42 PM »
Distance is time...how important is timing in an offense? Hmm
"Some athletes have division 1 dreams and jv work ethic" - random

Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: zone blocking and RB depth
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2014, 01:37:18 PM »
Distance is time...how important is timing in an offense? Hmm

Time also creates distance.  For example - a kid that runs a 4.4/40 will cover 10 yards much quicker than a kid that runs a 5.4/40.  I coached Track for years.

MANY things are taken into consideration.  Speed & quickness of RB, etc.  Slower backs could put their heels at 5 1/2 yds.  Faster backs could put their toes at 7 yards,  ETC.

The "Genius" - Bill Walsh had the following (VERY INTERESTING) observation - he thought RB's should be at FIVE & ONE-HALF YARDS.  See his notes (ATTACHED).  He thought the Redskins (with Riggins) had the BEST running game he ever saw (I agree with THAT):
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 07:54:31 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline joshv155

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Re: zone blocking and RB depth
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2014, 03:04:34 PM »
Would you want the RB closer for IZ and further for OZ so that there is more time to get the defenders stretched out for running lanes on the OZ and then less time to cram the B gap on IZ ? Or keep the distance the same every play ?
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Offline Pearls of Wisdom

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Re: zone blocking and RB depth
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2014, 03:47:49 PM »
Would you want the RB closer for IZ and further for OZ so that there is more time to get the defenders stretched out for running lanes on the OZ and then less time to cram the B gap on IZ ? Or keep the distance the same every play ?

Keep them the SAME on IZ & OZ (from heels at 5 1/2 yds. to toes at  7 yds. = DEPENDING on his speed)

PS;  The only time we cheat him up is to heels at 5 yds. on BLITZ-PICKUP vs. blitzing ILBers on  the drop-back passing game (he will ATTACK a blitzing LB at the LOS & NEVER wait on him). 

« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 07:54:59 PM by billmountjoy »
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Offline ZACH

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Re: zone blocking and RB depth
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2014, 09:52:17 AM »
Would you want the RB closer for IZ and further for OZ so that there is more time to get the defenders stretched out for running lanes on the OZ and then less time to cram the B gap on IZ ? Or keep the distance the same every play ?

I step off just like dcwt fb... we go 6-7 steps from center...avg 5.5-6 yards depending on speed of the back.
"Some athletes have division 1 dreams and jv work ethic" - random

Offline joshv155

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Re: zone blocking and RB depth
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2014, 02:23:10 PM »
I step off just like dcwt fb... we go 6-7 steps from center...avg 5.5-6 yards depending on speed of the back.

Got it thanks.
Passio Bellator