Author Topic: read the playbook, possible play additions?? wham, midline, GUT & end around  (Read 840 times)

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Offline MightyJoeYoung

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Z

So you are not a fan of Clark's new Shoot?

If you are talking one back shoot then Im with you....IZ / OZ with the occasional boot keep and be done with it.

Now its empty mega splits.

With all of this being said, if you run single back, could you not just widen the splits, keep the same plays, blocking schemes, etc.  But, just use the passing philosophies of the R&S?
(Receivers signaling routes, Qb throwing to open areas,etc.)
It sure seems to me that these 2 offenses are very similar and could blend together very easily.

But I am kinda new at this and still somewhat ignorant.  :-X

Offline mahonz

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With all of this being said, if you run single back, could you not just widen the splits, keep the same plays, blocking schemes, etc.  But, just use the passing philosophies of the R&S?
(Receivers signaling routes, Qb throwing to open areas,etc.)
It sure seems to me that these 2 offenses are very similar and could blend together very easily.

But I am kinda new at this and still somewhat ignorant.  :-X

MJY

I was a bit surprised to see Empty. You make some great points.
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline DumCoach

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With all of this being said, if you run single back, could you not just widen the splits, keep the same plays, blocking schemes, etc.  But, just use the passing philosophies of the R&S?
(Receivers signaling routes, Qb throwing to open areas,etc.)
It sure seems to me that these 2 offenses are very similar and could blend together very easily.

But I am kinda new at this and still somewhat ignorant.  :-X

Adding a back accomplishes absolutely nothing.  The defense simply adds a linebacker and now you have to block him.  Block him with WHO?  With the Running Back you just added?

If you're going to add a back, you're going to have to reduce the splits and Zone block which will bring you to MH's offense (Which is fine.  MH has a proven system and I don't.  But mine is a really, really simple offense that anyone can run.).   You can still use the R&S with Zone blocking but say goodbye to the super splits.  And I have to say those super splits look really tempting

When you get into Micheal's big splits, the running back becomes a waste if not a negative as it defeats the purpose of spreading the defense. 

Again the reason you don't see an offense like this is nobody wants to run their QB due to fear of injury or of looking like an idiot on 3rd and 3 and having to pass for the first (and then be second guessed by everybody if it's INC.).

I addressed both problems.  The QB isn't running.  He's passing.  He'll take off and run on a pass play but, if that happens, he probably went 60 yards and scored.  If you do call a run it's because its 3rd and 2 or 4th and 1.  You'll probably run into that situation once every possession (say 8 times a game).  So let's say he runs 8 times.  He's way less likely to get hurt running the 8 times than the 25 or so times he'd carry it as a runner in any other offense.  And you can tell him "Don't take a hit.  Go to the ground."  You can't tell him to do that if he's a tail back in the "I".  He's probably 4-5 times safer in this system than any other that he would run the ball in.

The players in danger of getting hurt are the little TE's when they catch a pass in the gun sights of a stud linebacker. But these players are expendable (I've never had a football team with a shortage of small players.).  After two or three minutes on the sideline, they want to go back in.

So risk of injury is not an excuse not to run this offense.  It's an excuse to run it.

The only excuse to call a run is:

1) It's 3rd and 2 or 4th and 1
2) The passing game's not working

It's 3rd and 2 or 4th and 1:    You can run or pass in these situations and passing is not a bad idea since you have about a 67% chance of completion or the QB could take off and run for the first.  But I figured the called runs were good for 4 yards.  That's not very much as a means to score but that's perfectly fine on 3rd and 2 or 4th and 1.  Get the first down and then go back to your passing game.

The passing game's not working:    To me, this is what you've got to be afraid of.  Completing 67% of your passes doesn't mean you complete 2 out of every 3 passes.  It means you completed 20 out of 30 or whatever number you threw in the game.  You can miss two passes in a row or even three passes in a row and still end up completing 20 of 30 for the game.  To me, this is a "fourth down" offense.  You don't punt.  You go for it.  The odds are way in your favor you pick up the first. 

Still, your passing may not be working for another reason and that would be they're defending it.  In that case, you need a running/screen game in which the QB is not the ball carrier (Or you will get him hurt).  So I'll look at OCD's plays.  I looked at Mahonz's but, so far, I haven't understood his diagrams.  I was going to head to the store for a six pack and see if I have a "Miller moment" where they make sense.

Otherwise, keep the runs and screens coming!   :)

   

   
"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."

Offline mahonz

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LOL

Beer will help.  :)
What is beautiful, lives forever.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Drinking Miller never helped anybody do anything.  :P

Offline DumCoach

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Drinking Miller never helped anybody do anything.  :P

 Bymupxz...(burp).
Gozzat?
"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Bymupxz...(burp).
Gozzat?
Now see, if you would of had a few Dogfish Heads or something along that line, none of that would of happenened.

Offline CoachOCD

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Hey Clark Im not throwing stuff at your O trying to be an asshole I'm just tossin up what might or at least could happen.

As far as the run plays go there just some additional threats...an occasional wham on a DT is always sweet, makes them look both ways before crossing! as far as tackle trap goes I suppose it could be run in similar fashion to a quick trap or Bobby Dodd'esk. The wing motion only a couple of steps, basically right behind his side TE, takes under handoff from QB, and head straight up field right off the centers down block.

Offline CoachOCD

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ways of using motion, not as base of O, every single play like the DCWT but occasionally utilized to -
- free up a receiver
-motion towards widest defender use speed to run past him run wheel route
- just a decoy, give something for D to look at "SQUIRREL!"
  this includes motioning towards the corner & running wheel route this could be run in unison with the hitch for a little read option pass
- kick out emlos (power)
- lead block to outside for QB sweep
- jet motion to smash widest defender, now you aren't motioning to run wheel route as before =  power hitch
- wham a DT, put a good thumper here and watch the DT get smashed
- run the jet sweep
- run jet sweep pass, including a throwback to QB
- jet sweep reverse wing to slot or slot to wing, QB lead blocks
- jet sweep reverse option, QB is now the pitch back
- just a decoy - fake jet TE counter
- the quick reverse, under QB to over the TE hand offs, on a wing T counter XX style inside reverse, QB can decoy emlos or lead block


oh a new one
- wham waggle combo, jet motion then cuts up field thru the O line, LOOKS like WHAM, motioning back runs to open grass, now whos covering who?  I LIKE THIS usage. Could be run as an designated out route so QB could roll.

Offline DumCoach

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CoachOCD:

Can you draw these ideas up?  I'd like to see them in diagrams. 
"Football is for the kids - But let's win anyway."

Offline CoachOCD

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well OK but its better to be thought a fool than to draw it up and remove all doubt...

ways of using motion, not as base of O, every single play like the DCWT but occasionally utilized to -
- free up a receiver

..............O....O...O...C...O...O....O
......O>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.........O.............O
...............................O
PLAIN OLE JET MOTION triggered by QB lifting left foot...or maybe the coach yelled in "red red red" or some other word meaning right...then QB lifts foot


..............O....O...O...C...O...O....O
......O.........<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<O.............O
...............................O..if above is red then I guess this is blue...blue = motion to left, if yelled in by coach otherwise its the QBs right foot being lifted

..............O....O...O...C...O...O....O
......O...................................................O.............O
...............................O....................<<<<<<<<<<
now this is interesting, combining THE COLORS blue and red we get purple so lets call this motion purple, triggered by QB lifting both feet simultaneously ;) ok so we need to work on the signal. Here is the interesting part, this kid is one of the best athletes on the team, right? so running a jet sweep wouldn't be a bad idea, ALSO he could cut up the field, right after he passes the slot back....THIS WILL CAUSE COVERAGE PROBLEMS, much like the DCWT motion of the wing does. If he does motion past the QB, who is covering him? This O has 5 receivers, you can have another receiver run to the spot of the defender who is chasing this carrot, easy peasy.

POWERS
..............O....O...O...C...O...O....O
......O...............................<<<<<<<<<<O.............O
...............................O
blue power left...or just BLUE POWER, slot motions in front of QB, jet, slot is moving fast to kick out the left emlos NOTE: this could be a purple power left as well, sending the wide out in motion
or red power right, same thing both ways,  its your basic follow the leader run play for your QB. Modesto Christian made a habit of this play in 2009 when they won the CA state champ.

POWER SWEEP
..............O....O...O...C...O...O....O
......O..............................<<<<<<<<<<O.............O
...............................O
the word power means motioning back is lead blocking, and by itself means to target emlos, 1st defender inside the emlos = WHAM, 1st player outside the emlos = SWEEP. On above slot motion to the left or "blue" we are targeting 1st dender showing outside the emlos, so its a Blue power sweep. The wing will block 1st defender inside of himself, usually this will be emlos and DE, the left TE will run off the LB on his side, wanting the defenders back to the play so tell your left TE to run just inside his LB & give him the ole Arnold Horseshack routine!!! :D ohohoh IM open Im open ohoh, pick me pick, ohoghoho raising his hand and vigorously waiving it about so as to draw the attn of ....well....everybody. QB chases motioning back runs off of his block - in he goes out, blocks out he goes in. With RED power sweep, the slot will ear hole down on emlos, prolly needs to cheat in a bit, and same thing QB now chases the motioning wing to the right, wing is looking for 1st defender showing.



- jet motion to smash widest defender, now you aren't motioning to run wheel route as before =  power hitch
........................................................................C
..............O....O...O...C...O...O....O
......O>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...............O.............O
...............................O
QB allows wing to motion out just a little wider, and is looking to ear hole the defender that is closest to our wide out, with above C being this plays victim


WHAM a DT, put a good thumper here and watch the DT get smashed
..........................DT
..............O....O...O...C...O...O....O
......O...............................<<<<<<<<<O.............O
...............................O
slot motions, and destroys DT, this is a brutal hit! Doesnt need be, as long as your motioning back, either of the 3 backs, just get in the defenders way...like a basketball pick your QB will be chasing his own linemen down field gaining yardage.

- run the jet sweep
..............O....O...O...C...O...O....O
......O>>>>>>>.....................................O.............O
...............................O

this play may require your TE to block the DE for 2 seconds, unless the tackle can reach him, jet sweep can be run by any of the 3 backs with QB faking run opposite.

- run jet sweep pass, including a throwback to QB

..............O....O...O...C...O...O....O
......O>>>>>>>...................................O.............O
............<--------------O
wing motions to right, QB hands him the ball and just like jet sweep he fakes a run to outside...if he purposefully runs a horrible fake, showing the D he aint got the ball and just lazily jogs n stops (you know how most QBS do and then look back like they always do!!!)
after he does this on jet sweep a time or 9 he will be wide open for big yards...if the wing can stop and throw back. Otherwise this plays base is to suck up the Ss to play run, then hit a defender all alone deep!!!

REVERSE: jet sweep reverse wing to slot or slot to wing, dont matter either way, QB lead blocks after handing off the ball
..............O....O...O...C...O...O....O
......O----.....<---------------<<<<<<<<<O.............O
..............--------........O----------------
........................--------------------------------->>
wing takes "under" hand off from Slot back then orbits deeper runs to QBs buttocks, QB is going to block outside shoulder of 1st defender showing off tackle (usually a DE or emlos maybe OLB comes up because of motion?)



-Reverse option...coach can have a reverse pass here instead or run the option, QB is now the pitch back. In below play, slot motions taking ball on jet sweep, wing take under hand off, like he does on the reverse, he then runs flat NOT orbit like normal, he runs straight down line until a defender threatens him, he then pitches ball out to the QB.....just run this one way
..............O....O...O...C...O...O....O
......O----.....<---------------<<<<<<<<<O.............O
..............--------........O----------------
........................--------------------------------->>

-midline, if the D is Odd front or the 2techs can get pushed out by G's MONEY! theres only gonna be 1 linebacker.

-TRAPS:  traditionally involving a guard pulling behind center, these gaps are so big only 3 O linemen, 2 guards and the center need touch anybody on the O line. guard and center block towards the pulling guard, puller kicks out, both tackles FBI, both TEs run straight to the nearest deepest defender, doing Arnold Horseshack!

- TE counter, QB takes ball one way, TE takes it the other, simple, quick n easy

-TE shuffle pass (option): slot motions, QB fakes jet sweep to him, left TE runs behind LOS, from left to right, QB after faking to slot takes a few steps to the right perimeter, when the right DE threatens QB, QB shuffle passes to the L-TE


oh and heres 2 new plays
 
- wham waggle combo, wing or slot motions then cuts up field thru the O line, LOOKS like WHAM, right? Wrong! motioning back runs to open grass, now whos covering who?  I LIKE THIS usage. Could be run as an designated out route so QB could roll and the waggleer will be rolling out about 10/15 deep

-TE shuffle pass (option): slot motions, QB fakes jet sweep to slot, left TE runs behind LOS, from left to right, QB after faking to slot takes a few steps to the right perimeter, when the right DE threatens QB, QB shuffle passes to the L-TE, if nobody threatens QB run until about to get tackles and slide home to safety!

I started and stopped typing so many times Im lost, where am I, I'm supposed to be working

coachOCD