Author Topic: UP/DN with Mega Splits  (Read 8440 times)

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Offline mahonz

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UP/DN with Mega Splits
« on: April 25, 2015, 07:43:30 PM »
For those of you that have used the UP/DN System for your 7on7 exercises, Flag  or tackle in the Fall we are having an interesting discovery this Spring.

With normal splits....say 18-24 inches I was never an advocate of asking an OT to pass pro around a vacating TE or sliding towards a vacating TE because of all the 9 techs we all see at the youth levels. So I had never used a TE in our Empty until this Spring. 

This Spring League has a rule that if a kid is a Stripe'r then he can go out for a pass but must be attached to the OL....so no SE's. We have 11 Striper's on this team and 4 of them can run good routes and catch footballs. Our best receiver is one of these TE's. So we have been running quite a bit of 5 Wide with 2 TE's....and a little bit with one TE using a legal SE at X.  I was worried but these mega splits seem to be the trick.

3 foot A and B Gaps and 4 foot C Gaps pushes these 9's out so wide that the OT's can pass pro with ease. The count from X to Z stays the same but its not a clean left to right count for  the QB like it used to be with two detached SE's. Took the QB one practice to get comfortable with the unusual count.

Here is our formations. S still sets Right or Left.


Right


...........................................X......T....G....C.....G.....T......Y
.....................H......................................................................S.............Z

..............................................................Q

Left

...........................................X......T....G....C.....G.....T......Y
.....................H..........S.........................................................................Z

..............................................................Q

So far we only run two play calls....5 UP and 5 DN both Right and Left with the occasional tagged route for X for example so the D cant dial in on his 5 all the time..... and the kids are crushing it. 5th graders. Im actually thinking I will keep this going in the Fall. We can play any Player at SE in the Fall but Im thinking that a true fully detached 5 wide formation might not work as well with mega splits. And the biggie I believe....as we all know....TE's tend to be really though to cover at the youth levels. Our TE's are having a field day.

Food for thought.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2015, 03:20:32 PM »
Been getting a few inquires about this so wanted to finish what I started.

Through the Spring Season our OC in training really liked this Package and we did well with it. There were really only a few teams that we didn't run it against because of the serious speed they possessed in their secondaries.

We never ran anything but 5 Up or 5 Down and occasionally tagged the primary to run something unique. We also ran fairly well out of it. QB only....no rockets or anything like that.

Early in the Season we dabbled....so about the 2nd week we used one full practice session to smooth it all out. First on air with a TNT only. The added DE's. Then started changing fronts. Then added DB's. Coach coached up the kids as we went along....on O and D.

Thereafter we spent about 20 minutes per week running it vs a defense with coaches coaching on the fly. We never really spent an inordinate amount of time running routes and the like. We did spend some time on pass pro and overloads during OL EDD's. 

What really worked well as....in pre practice as kids showed up and in pre game as kids showed up I'd set up 6 cones in a line about 5 yards apart. The Center / QB would set up on one of the middle cones and the rest would just pick a cone and run 5 UP or 5 DN to include OLM. That taught the kids their Routes and helped the QB stay tuned with certain receivers. The QB Coach would stand next to the QB and count....1 one thousand....two..... to set the mental clock for the QB and then he would throw a football to one of the OLM running a route while the QB focused on his actual game day receivers.

Good way to warm the kids up and get them focused and have some fun while learning.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2015, 01:46:39 AM »
Now that I am catching up on years worth of film that I haven't processed yet....attached is a few clips of some of the experimenting we have been doing lately with the UP/DN.

One thing we counted on was eventual overloads. We'd go into UP /DN mode and have success but then the D started to become irresponsible and blitz. So we'd find ourselves in a 5 blocking 6 situation pretty often. What helped is the typical 9 tech at the youth level were pretty far away so we could leave them be at times due to the very quick TEMPO.

What we started doing was to call a play that placed the 5 receiver monuments equally across the field or a play that created high or low picks. Then we would audible the Primary to fit what the D was doing per the previous play call. This worked fantastic especially vs the overloads.

I was worried asking our OT's to pass pro around vacating TE's but it seemed to be OK until we came up against a Manimal 9 tech. The last clip shows what can go terribly wrong if the OT's are last off the football. Just about got our QB killed forcing him to throw way late and way short. Rather him take the sack and live to play another down. Thought I'd include that on film to show what to seriously avoid. This kid did great for us at LOT but was caught napping on this play. VERY BAD.

Anyway...we ran a lot of double TE's and a lot of one TE / SE sets. I liked how this all spaced out over using no TE's. Then we'd just run our base plays with one TE... then two TE's then back to one finding good match-ups. Then once that was played out rather than call a new UP/ DN play we'd simply start audibling the Primary out of the UP / DN play call once the D become over aggressive, over confident or confused. This allowed us to run 4 UP/DN plays with lots of flexibility for the entire season. All plays were designed to fit the TE arrangements and the trips right or left regardless. 

This is our Spring Team. 5th graders. Kids from 7 different Fall Teams. They picked it up pretty quick. My Grandson is playing QB. His nickname is Tebow. He was the 3rd string QB on his Fall Team. He did pretty well on this Team. I was very proud of him. Had some kids that learned to run some pretty good routes and could catch. Always a plus.

https://youtu.be/7VDXavu43wU
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 01:50:04 AM by mahonz »
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Offline CoachOCD

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2015, 12:32:51 PM »
this looks very similar to the dc run n shoot
formation, split, empty, etc etc very similiar

your 5 up and 5 down, and correct if wrong, that routes numbered 1,2,3,4,5...you tell the kid furthest left your the 1st receiver and everybody else will count up or down from you, he is always a 1 or a 5 route unless you call a specific, the 2nd receiver from left would always be a 2 or a 4 route, again unless you called a specific....am I close?

Offline Michael

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2015, 12:44:21 PM »
this looks very similar to the dc run n shoot
formation, split, empty, etc etc very similiar

It's almost liked they talked to the same person.
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Offline mahonz

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2015, 12:54:16 PM »
It's almost liked they talked to the same person.

 :)
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Offline CoachOCD

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2015, 01:00:35 PM »
almost mr micheal almost!

Offline mahonz

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2015, 01:03:40 PM »
this looks very similar to the dc run n shoot
formation, split, empty, etc etc very similiar

your 5 up and 5 down, and correct if wrong, that routes numbered 1,2,3,4,5...you tell the kid furthest left your the 1st receiver and everybody else will count up or down from you, he is always a 1 or a 5 route unless you call a specific, the 2nd receiver from left would always be a 2 or a 4 route, again unless you called a specific....am I close?

Super S

Close.

It is a rather clever play calling system designed specifically for 5 wide that I picked up from the semi pros many years ago. I do not understand all that Near and Far stuff that the R&S people use.

The reason I am posting this is every Spring it is a very popular 7 on 7 system with a handful of Members. Plus guys like Zach use the philosophy in the fall plugged into their regular systems. I had never run it with a TE until this past Spring so that is the purpose of this Thread.

The UP/DN is explained here.

http://www.dumcoach.com/passing-game-and-pass-protection/mahonz-up-down-system/
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Offline Bruceja

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2015, 01:05:50 PM »
Where can I learn about this 5up 5 dn thing?

Offline Bruceja

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2015, 01:06:47 PM »
Oh you posted the link as I was typing. Thanks

Offline mahonz

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2015, 01:16:33 PM »
Where can I learn about this 5up 5 dn thing?

B

A collection of Threads are found here with attachments.....

http://www.dumcoach.com/offense-playbooks/mahonz-updn-empty-package/

I did a presentation on the Red Zone Show here....its free.

http://www.coachbigb.com/one-one-w-coach-mahonz-5-wide-updown-system

This was all before I met Michael the Zen Master. I am now his Grasshopper on the splits. 100% improvement for 100 reasons. This Spring Team proved it too me. Only 2 of these kids were familiar and one played QB who is a Receiver in the Fall and the other was one of the TE's #33. All others learned from scratch.

The biggest issue you will have is simply the fact that you are in a Super Spread Empty Formation. That freaks people out apparently. I have helped out a lot of Coaches in the past with this and 75% don't have the balls and bail once they get into installing....except the 7 on 7 people.

The trick is the TEMPO.....watch the film again and look at the overloads happening....no biggie....the ball is away in 2 seconds every time and why I posted up that last clip when things go bad and the QB thinks. Two seconds and you will be fine. Coach does all the reading for the QB.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 01:18:16 PM by mahonz »
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Offline mahonz

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2015, 01:17:20 PM »
Oh you posted the link as I was typing. Thanks

B

I found a collection of Threads in the Preservation Room that I linked as well.
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Offline Michael

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2015, 01:21:39 PM »
The trick is the TEMPO.....watch the film again and look at the overloads happening....no biggie....the ball is away in 2 seconds every time and why I posted up that last clip when things go bad and the QB thinks. Two seconds and you will be fine.

I might be the only O-Line coach in history who doesn't bitch no matter how long the ball takes to get out.
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Offline Bruceja

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2015, 02:41:27 PM »
We have a 7 on 7 tournament coming up in July with our middle school guys. This may be awesome. Bout to read all the links

Offline pogmaster3

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Re: UP/DN with Mega Splits
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2015, 03:08:59 PM »
It looks good, looks very good.  Mahonz, were you instructing the QB where to go with the ball, or was he reading the coverage?
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