Author Topic: More Group, Less Indy  (Read 2337 times)

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Offline mahonz

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More Group, Less Indy
« on: August 24, 2016, 01:44:54 PM »
This particular "run" with this team has been an interesting one because of all the trends we decided to buck over the years.

It has worked out surprisingly well. The reason for this approach was lots of things as far as practice philosophy goes just seemed plain dumb. Why follow the ways of the upper levels if you dont coach the upper levels? Plus we deal with every player that pays....plays. 

If you run the Delaware Wing T you aren't going to run it the way Delaware did so why in the world would you ever practice the way Delaware did?

So we changed this up rather dramatically....

Spending 70% of all practice time on the Defense with 3rd graders.

Going Team sometimes for 90 minutes in one practice with 4th graders.

Throwing out almost all individual periods and creating Group drilling periods with 5th graders.

And so on.

Now that they are 7th graders....lots of Indy and much less hitting. The theory being they are experienced and hitting puberty so the thinking has to change a bit...plus its how the HS people do things.

Im thinking the HS people are wrong here. We have scrimmaged 6 unique teams thus far in the pre season. Watching film I see the mistakes and they are strictly due to the fact that while we block and tackle very well....we are out of position and "off" here and there...a lot.

As Joe likes to say....Football is blocking and tackling so do that well and you will win...and I completely agree 100%....to a point.

Goes back to my thinking that if you are a team that tackles well but always out of position you are now a terrible Defense. If you block really well but not the correct Defender you are now a terrible Offense.

I am now convinced that more Group exercises and less Indy time fixes that. An average tackler that is in the right place at the right time is now a great tackler. An average blocker that is blocking his man is now a great blocker.

There are Coaches who believe scrimmaging yourself is a waste of time...because someone told them so is my deduction. I believe the opposite to be true. There is tremendous value in scrimmaging yourself IF and only IF you can create an atmosphere where you have mostly 1's going against mostly 1's.

Plus you have to responsibly keep the hits counts down especially as they do get older. 

If you have say 4 coaches and 20 players then go 80% half line O vs D rather than breaking up the team into individual periods for long periods of time. The other 20% can be set aside for ST's and simple fundamental periods that is position specific.

Run a play while each coach keys a player or 3....step in and coach em up quickly....rinse and repeat for the entire season.

I truly believe this will put a better product on the field much faster and progress that quality of play exponentially as the playoffs begin.  All of the players and coaches are fully engaged so slow the pace down so that you are getting a quality rep in over quantity repetitions. Since they are playing the actual game....every rep is a serious competition so none of that testosterone is lost.

Basically....kill 15 birds with one stone rather than doing so one stone at a time.

Also goes back to those that chase perfection. I gave up on that goal many many years ago. They are kids. They ruin everything  :) Get them all pointed in the same direction and in the right place at the right time and you will win plenty of games.

Different way of thinking for sure and some food for thought.

Collect moments, not wins.

Offline patriotsfatboy1

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Re: More Group, Less Indy
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2016, 03:34:18 PM »
We have a similar issue.  Indy's are fine on our individual techniques.  However, when we bring it together, the timing is off.  For instance, on offense:
- The line is blocking, but they need help from a wing or a back when the other team brings more than 5. 
- I can work on pulling all I want, but if they are too slow because my backs are super fast, then it won't work
- My backs can try to simulate wedge all day, but if they can't keep up with my line, then the play doesn't work

We need more group time.  Needs to be repped faster as well.

Offline mahonz

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Re: More Group, Less Indy
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2016, 04:41:27 PM »
We have a similar issue.  Indy's are fine on our individual techniques.  However, when we bring it together, the timing is off.  For instance, on offense:
- The line is blocking, but they need help from a wing or a back when the other team brings more than 5. 
- I can work on pulling all I want, but if they are too slow because my backs are super fast, then it won't work
- My backs can try to simulate wedge all day, but if they can't keep up with my line, then the play doesn't work

We need more group time.  Needs to be repped faster as well.

If the hip bone is connected to the thigh bone and the thigh bone is connected to the knee bone....

Yet we all insist on training our bones individually and expecting them to coordinate and walk forward.

Its a wonder any of us ever learned to walk when you think about it. 
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline Malibu

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Re: More Group, Less Indy
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2016, 05:01:09 PM »
I would also add, M, that while the adults understand (hopefully) how a drill fits into the grand scheme of things (DE's path, for example), kids mostly don't.  How many times have you seen a kid do something over and over well in a drill and then be clueless when you go team?  I have seen it a lot.  For kids, when you go team, it is many times like going from French (drills) to Spanish.  So if you speak Spanish in games, speak it in practice. 

Offline SingleWingGoombah

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Re: More Group, Less Indy
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2016, 05:03:46 PM »
I would also add, M, that while the adults understand (hopefully) how a drill fits into the grand scheme of things (DE's path, for example), kids mostly don't.  How many times have you seen a kid do something over and over well in a drill and then be clueless when you go team?  I have seen it a lot.  For kids, when you go team, it is many times like going from French (drills) to Spanish.  So if you speak Spanish in games, speak it in practice.

This is some great advice, and very hard to stay on top of, because each season you start of fresh, and have to remember to say and explain and do things you weren't have to say, explain or do at the end of the prior season.

Offline PSLCOACHROB

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Re: More Group, Less Indy
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2016, 05:07:58 PM »
I would also add, M, that while the adults understand (hopefully) how a drill fits into the grand scheme of things (DE's path, for example), kids mostly don't.  How many times have you seen a kid do something over and over well in a drill and then be clueless when you go team?  I have seen it a lot.  For kids, when you go team, it is many times like going from French (drills) to Spanish.  So if you speak Spanish in games, speak it in practice.
I used to see this alot. Then I started with the finish. For example, starting wedge progression from a fully formed and fitted wedge. Showing the kids where they are expected to end up helps avoid what you describe.

Offline mahonz

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Re: More Group, Less Indy
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2016, 05:12:31 PM »
I would also add, M, that while the adults understand (hopefully) how a drill fits into the grand scheme of things (DE's path, for example), kids mostly don't.  How many times have you seen a kid do something over and over well in a drill and then be clueless when you go team?  I have seen it a lot.  For kids, when you go team, it is many times like going from French (drills) to Spanish.  So if you speak Spanish in games, speak it in practice.

True.

I think it becomes very important that for example.... the OLM learning how to zone block realize why they do what they do when it comes to play design to include formations and motions. Sure they eventually understand all that but why not make an attempt to expedite that process?

I think this is even more important for the Defense. The Offense has a set plan with few variables. The Defense has more variable to deal with.

I have to wonder if any Defense should do Indys outside of a few quick tackling drills deigned for the particular position groups. Even circuits past maybe day 2 in pads seems like a waste too me.
Collect moments, not wins.

Offline mahonz

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Re: More Group, Less Indy
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2016, 05:13:33 PM »
I used to see this alot. Then I started with the finish. For example, starting wedge progression from a fully formed and fitted wedge. Showing the kids where they are expected to end up helps avoid what you describe.

This males sense.
Collect moments, not wins.