Author Topic: Confusing performance  (Read 1752 times)

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Offline amarant00

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Confusing performance
« on: August 15, 2017, 11:41:33 PM »
We have a boy on our 4th grade team. Kid runs through all the drills better than almost every player. He is on the smaller end but is quick and puts his work in. Line up to scrimmage, put him on defense, he backs up when he should be able to be around my tackle or tight end in one move. When tackling he is always hesitant at contact and too high. He has been picked on from a couple of kids who are bigger than him and he isn't afraid to stand his ground with them. Has anyone encountered a kid like this and been able to get them through it? As quick as he can be and well as he goes through everything, is it something he will work out with more experience? He is too unpredictable to put a football in his hands, he might run backwards to avoid getting hit, he might drop the ball but he doesn't seem to realize he is faster in pads than anyone else we have when he wants to run.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Confusing performance
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2017, 01:35:47 AM »
At this point, I've seen all manner of kids playing football. Some conform and "go with the program". Others do better with a custom approach. Mahonz calls it "finding the switch". Some guys don't have the patience for it. For me, making a connection with a kid and helping him find a new "best" is the most rewarding part of coaching.

With your player, what have you tried? Are you just dropping him in a scrimmage situation and expecting the same results in drills? For 90% of kids, that's how it works. What have you done to remedy this kid?
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Offline Coach Smith

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Re: Confusing performance
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 07:53:20 AM »
When I've seen particular kids that don't want to go forward during hitting drills or our in-house scrimmage I stand right behind them before the snap they have nowhere to go but forward I've had a few I've had to even give a little nudge in the back and get them moving as soon as the ball was snapped after a few times they start getting the picture
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Offline amarant00

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Re: Confusing performance
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 10:35:11 AM »
So far the only things we have tried was one on one hitting drills and trying to put him against any player he has had conflict with. Standing behind him may work but we just want to see this kid live up to his athletic ability. Occasionally he will get fired up and take down an offensive lineman on the snap but most of the time he hesitates and lets the linemen come to him or in the event we run a pass he immediately drops back to where the pass went for the rest of scrimmages and leaves a gaping hole for the RB to hit. Put him at linebacker and he follows the ball laterally but is slow to come up to meet the ball carrier. In a lot of situations we generally have to run him on the interior defensive line to lock him from floating out and making a hole.

It's very confusing to us because if he gets hit late or blocked from behind he has no problem getting up and getting fired up and in the face of the offending player. I think he may be lacking confidence or has too much going on in his head or something.

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Re: Confusing performance
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2017, 10:51:12 AM »
So far the only things we have tried was one on one hitting drills

--What are the hitting drills?

and trying to put him against any player he has had conflict with.

--Huh?

Occasionally he will get fired up and take down an offensive lineman on the snap

--"Take down a lineman?"  What does that mean?

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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Confusing performance
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2017, 11:07:14 AM »
Coach Amarant,

I'm not trying to pick on you. I'm trying to be constructive, but it sounds like you're lining this kid up (all your kids for that matter), turning him loose and are now wondering why what you're seeing on grass doesn't match up to what you're visualizing in your head. It's called "coaching" for a reason.

Method 1 (vague and unproductive): "Get in there, Timmy! Be aggressive!"

Method 2 (technique driven and specific): "Timmy, the technique you've been taught is to line up in a 4 technique, step hard with your inside foot 1/4 second after the ball flinches into the B gap and rip through contact with a strong uppercut. You are stepping backward and doing someone else's job."

In football, aggression is useless without focus.  This kid's readiness to wipe his own nose and stand up for himself can be an asset if you teach him to use it. If not, it will move you backward 15 yards at a time while painting you, your staff and your team in a bad light.
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Re: Confusing performance
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2017, 11:14:13 AM »
Method 2 (technique driven and specific): "Timmy, the technique you've been taught is to line up in a 4 technique, step hard with your inside foot 1/4 second after the ball flinches into the B gap and rip through contact with a strong uppercut. You are stepping backward and doing someone else's job."

And for coaches who say that kids can't learn this, remember that this is taught as a progression; not all at once.  And for those who say they don't have time to teach the progression, consider that you need to become more efficient in your teach.  Also know that every part of the progression doesn't have to be taught at the beginning.  For example, my Wedge teach used to take forever because I taught every possible detail of minutiae; I not only overfilled their heads with info, but gave the same relevance to all aspects of the teach.  We only became great at Wedge when I reduced the number of bullets points, as well as became more efficient in the teach.

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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Confusing performance
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2017, 11:18:52 AM »
And for coaches who say that kids can't learn this, remember that this is taught as a progression; not all at once.  And for those who say they don't have time to teach the progression, consider that you need to become more efficient in your teach.  Also know that every part of the progression doesn't have to be taught at the beginning.  For example, my Wedge teach used to take forever because I taught every possible detail of minutiae; I not only overfilled their heads with info, but gave the same relevance to all aspects of the teach.  We only became great at Wedge when I reduced the number of bullets points, as well as became more efficient in the teach.

--Dave

Bingo.

First, Timmy needs to know what a 4 technique is (or whatever you want to call it). Move on from there.
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Online CoachDP

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Re: Confusing performance
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2017, 11:26:02 AM »
First, Timmy needs to know what a 4 technique is (or whatever you want to call it).

Lar, no.  No, he doesn't.   ;)

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Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Confusing performance
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2017, 11:29:28 AM »
Lar, no.  No, he doesn't.   ;)

--Dave
Point taken. Timmy needs to know where to line up.
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Offline amarant00

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Re: Confusing performance
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2017, 01:02:52 AM »


Hitting drills are usually one on one tackling drills...meet in the middle, etc.

I guess I worded taking a lineman down a little weirdly. We have a few kids on the offensive line that haven't grasped blocking in the back and some come off the snap and try tackling who they are supposed to block. Kid in question has played before and knows they can't do this and it gets him upset. When this happens, usually the next snap he explodes out and puts that lineman on his back(kid is 60lbs soaking wet and our smallest OL might weigh 95lbs). Usually ends there. Some of the kids get chippy after play and our HC puts this kid against ones that get upset with each other in the one on one drills.

I do agree with others that we need to be teaching the kids technique and general football knowledge but that falls on deaf ears because "we" are only interested in teaching our ball carriers that sort of stuff. Makes it interesting when a RB is supposed to hit a gap and the OL doesn't know they need to open it up and our defensive strategy is for DL to go get the ball, LB follow and meet the ball carrier at LOS and corners are just told to contain and keep ball carriers inside.

Offline gumby_in_co

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Re: Confusing performance
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2017, 01:07:03 AM »
We have a few kids on the offensive line that haven't grasped blocking in the back and some come off the snap and try tackling who they are supposed to block.

If you're interested, I can send you some of my favorite "3rd and 30" plays.
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Online CoachDP

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Re: Confusing performance
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2017, 01:21:03 AM »
Hitting drills are usually one on one tackling drills...meet in the middle, etc.

--I was asking which ones you are using.

Some of the kids get chippy after play and our HC puts this kid against ones that get upset with each other in the one on one drills.

--What is the HC trying to gain from this approach?

I do agree with others that we need to be teaching the kids technique and general football knowledge but that falls on deaf ears because "we" are only interested in teaching our ball carriers that sort of stuff.

--Oh...wow.  You had me interested, then you lost me.

Makes it interesting when a RB is supposed to hit a gap and the OL doesn't know they need to open it up and our defensive strategy is for DL to go get the ball, LB follow and meet the ball carrier at LOS and corners are just told to contain and keep ball carriers inside.

--Typical...With that level of instruction, you're asking why the boy's performance is confused?  I'd be surprised if he wasn't confused.

--Dave

« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 01:23:07 AM by CoachDP »
"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement:
"I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go." #BattleReady newhope

Offline COCoachKC

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Re: Confusing performance
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2017, 01:30:51 PM »
Do I have this right?  The kid is great in drills but is hesitant when put in team?  If this is the case, what are the kid's parents/guardian like?  The reason I ask is I think this kid is scared shitless that he is going to make a mistake.  Rather than make a mistake he chooses to do nothing.  Drills are much easier as there isn't much thinking.

I have seen this numerous times over the years.  Baseball, football and lacrosse.  The root cause in all situations: mom/dad/grandpa. These kids' parent/guardian was all over them for EVERY little mistake.  Real or perceived.  I even saw it with my own son.  I was the a-hole and root cause. 

How do you fix the problem?  It ain't easy.  Especially if you practice on an open field that the parents have access.  The key is to let the young man know it is okay to make mistakes.  And when he does, positive constructive criticism is the only approach.  And when I say positive I don't mean lying about the mistake.  Use the Positive Coaching Alliance kind approach with three positives before the negative.  Let the kid know what was done well BEFORE addressing what was not done correctly.

When I backed off on the criticism (thanks to my son's coach yelling at me!) my son became less hesitant and performed in team/games just like drills.

Kent
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 01:33:55 PM by COCoachKC »